BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[soalbundy]

26 minutes ago, Orac said:

I see that Tommy Dee has an interview with the Vice Consul up on the Fabulous103 website - basically she is doubling down on the statement that Thai Imm in Bangkok have confirmed Thai bank statements showing 65k income will be accepted.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Why should there be a need for a statement from the bank, surely the bank book should be enough even for monthly income, they can see what goes in and what comes out as it seems some banks wont write a letter for the IO.

[Jingthing]

I find that interview COMPLETELY UNCONVINCING. 

It is NOT good news. 

That lady did NOT actually know anything about the number of previous applicants that have EVER had applications approved based on INCOME that did so without embassy letters. 
She had a combination estimate of those using the BANK method and allegedly income without an embassy letter. In such a combination the number of applicants using income could easily have been ZERO.

The interviewer totally FAILED to nail her down on that. He started to but then let it go. She does not know.

As far as her supposed "assurances" that Thai immigration even in Bangkok (much less Thailand-wide) will accept income based applications without the letter was shockingly WEAK. The way that lady referred to immigration website as being meaningful (which BTW says no such thing about income applications needing letters or not) should be a clue that there is lack of full understanding in the embassy about that.

When asked for "confirmation" that the income applications would be accepted without the letter LISTEN CAREFULLY to the exact language. If you hear a definitive agreement that there was a clear confirmation about that, maybe you're listening to a different interview.

Was there even a mention or one question about the implications for COMBINATION METHOD applications?

Brits -- if this satisfies you that this is resolved, well I'm happy for you. If I was a Brit, I wouldn't be. 

 

[zoza]

18 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I've seen that first hand while waiting for service, when my time came, to give up a document, nothing else, I was told the lady (Thai of course) at the counter next to her who was scrolling through her screen dealt with that, ''cant you slide it across, it's complete''.  "'No, it's her job'', I left in disgust, I had been there two hours already and was expected to wait my time again. I've sent Emails concerning other matters, never received an answer. DWP is the same, the service is atrocious, so very British in my opinion.

A few years back I had a problem with my passport (all documented on this forum) and I got in contact with a couple of Thai B E staff, I was given their mobile number's and in the couple of weeks it took to get my passport back, they were available 24/7 and helped me more than any other staff from the  British Embassy , in fact I would say they made their British colleagues look very poor by the way they went out of their way to help.

I must admit my problem was me and others being dragged into a Thai v Thai dispute so better for Thai to handle but I could not fault the way they helped solve our problems.  

[TommyDee]

11 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Why should there be a need for a statement from the bank, surely the bank book should be enough even for monthly income, they can see what goes in and what comes out as it seems some banks wont write a letter for the IO.

the book...thats a bank statement  here ????

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, TommyDee said:

the book...thats a bank statement  here ????

Unfortunately the British vice consul blatantly lied to you by saying that people already verify their income by showing bank statements to Immigration directly. This has never been the case, a blatant lie.

 

Good that she admitted, albeit in couched terms, that this is a cost cutting exercise as a result of a F.O audit.

 

I have no doubt that Thai Immigration will not accept bank statements as proof of income, now or at any time in the future.

 

No news at all there, just waffle and lies.

[theoldgit]

37 minutes ago, TommyDee said:

Actually, once implimented and understood  it will make life for everyone easier..  this was out interview with the British Embassy..  makes it very clear.. I think anyway ????

A good interview Tommy, well done and thanks.

I appreciate you tying her down to the pertinent questions, especially your point regarding the Thai IO's around the Kingdom being made aware that an Embassy letter isn't actually required.

I hope your interview doesn't come back to bite Leanne in her backside.

Once again thanks.

[Jingthing]

31 minutes ago, VYCM said:

I haven't heard any bad news yet, its all been good news to me.

 

Life is great, 

Are you sure?

 

For example even if the "confirmation" (which was incredibly weak if you

listen to it carefully) that imports of 65K monthly would be accepted without a letter, even that would not be "all" good news.

 

Why?

 

Previously full imports of stated income were NEVER required.  You just had to "prove" the income. NOT the imports.

 

No mention of the combination method.

 

It's problematical for some people to do MONTHLY imports. The issue of whether people could do the imports in BIG CHUNKS, such as 6 months or a year of income at a time was "confirmed" as well? (It was NOT.)

 

65K baht. What is that? The EXCHANGE RATE changes constantly. The imports of the same amount from abroad will be a different amount in BAHT each time. That complication not addressed.

 

To repeat a point, even if confirmed (questionable), even if accepted Thailand wide (extremely questionable) the thing about imported "full" income monthly (even if you could do in big chunks, not addressed) would be a  MASSIVE and very NEGATIVE change from no requirement to import income AS CURRENTLY APPLIES. 

 

Really, Brits, if this stands and you really need to do full monthly imports, you may want to strongly consider switching to the 800K bank method. You're sending it over annually anyway, it's cleaner, and that method will work every time … no "confirmation" needed.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

A good interview Tommy, well done and thanks.

I appreciate you tying her down to the pertinent questions, especially your point regarding the Thai IO's around the Kingdom being made aware that an Embassy letter isn't actually required.

I hope your interview doesn't come back to bite Leanne in her backside.

Once again thanks.

It was a good college try but I ask people to listen to the replies CAREFULLY and then say they are really confident the happy time conclusion is really as objectively rosy as claimed. 

[Orac]

It was a good college try but I ask people to listen to the replies CAREFULLY and then say they are really confident the happy time conclusion is really as objectively rosy as claimed. 

 

I don’t think anyone can believe this interview puts the issue to bed and, I agree with you, that she did not understand the problem itself and was relying on the Thai Imm website which does state what the requirements are but not the evidence required to prove you meet those requirements. What it does do is show that there is now some engagement from the BE towards resolving these issues which was lacking before so hopefully, over the next month or so, we will get some clarity.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Orac]

Unfortunately the British vice consul blatantly lied to you by saying that people already verify their income by showing bank statements to Immigration directly. This has never been the case, a blatant lie.
 
Good that she admitted, albeit in couched terms, that this is a cost cutting exercise as a result of a F.O audit.
 
I have no doubt that Thai Immigration will not accept bank statements as proof of income, now or at any time in the future.
 
No news at all there, just waffle and lies.

At least it should be a relief to non-Brits since it appears the excuse that it was due to Thai Imm changes looks to be incorrect.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

I don’t think anyone can believe this interview puts the issue to bed and, I agree with you, that she did not understand the problem itself and was relying on the Thai Imm website which does state what the requirements are but not the evidence required to prove you meet those requirements. What it does do is show that there is now some engagement from the BE towards resolving these issues which was lacking before so hopefully, over the next month or so, we will get some clarity.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Well like I said I'm not British. If I was based on that interview, I wouldn't share your optimism.

Also like I said a HUGE CHANGE from not needing to import to needing to import the FULL INCOME CLAIM would stand and is very negative even if it's true that income applications will be able to be done without the letters. So best case scenario is not nearly as good as the status quo WITH THE LETTERS. 

I'm concerned for all nationalities as well if this British nudged PRECEDENT of requiring FULL MONTHLY IMPORT of the full income claim might spread to immigration policy in general. Also for the future of the COMBINATION METHOD for all nationalities.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Orac said:

 

 

At least it should be a relief to non-Brits since it appears the excuse that it was due to Thai Imm changes looks to be incorrect.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

It isn't a total relief. The changes she is "confirming" (albeit weakly) have potential to have future negative impact on Thai immigration rules for all (required full monthly import is a MASSIVE NEGATIVE CHANGE) especially if other embassies become tempted or pressured to stop their letter service as well. 

[Orac]

Well like I said I'm not British. If I was based on that interview, I wouldn't share your optimism.
Also like I said a HUGE CHANGE from not needing to import to needing to import the FULL INCOME CLAIM would stand and is very negative even if it's true that income applications will be able to be done without the letters. So best case scenario is not nearly as good as the status quo WITH THE LETTERS. 
I'm concerned for all nationalities as well if this British nudged PRECEDENT of requiring FULL MONTHLY IMPORT of the full income claim might spread to immigration policy in general. Also for the future of the COMBINATION METHOD for all nationalities.

It moves the issue forward a bit - now they are engaged the right questions can be asked of them to either expose their misunderstanding or clarify new requirements.

Also we now know the extent of the problem - 3000 letters a year.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Orac said:

 

It moves the issue forward a bit - now they are engaged the right questions can be asked of them to either expose their misunderstanding or clarify new requirements.

Also we now know the extent of the problem - 3000 letters a year.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

I respect your POV but based on the clear misunderstandings of actual realities at immigration from the lady being interviewed, I can't share it. It seems to me that many basic questions won't even be ASKED, much less resolved.

[pagallim]

It's unfortunate that the UK Embassy doesn't conduct outreach visits in much the same way as the US and Australian Embassies.   These would at least allow a degree of dialogue and consultation prior to when decisions such as these are taken, so that full and diverse impact can be gauged, and which would also help with background when Consular staff meet with Thai Immigration.    In this particular instance, the British Embassy might for example, having had confirmation that Thai Immigration would accept proof of the required income via a Thai bank statement or showing a Thai bank book with the requisite number of months deposits (which are?) to demonstrate that income, agreed to the cessation of Embassy letters when the amended/updated Thai Immigration rules were publicised.

[pontious]

Although this will not affect anyone till next year I cannot see a dual system for immigration.

Many Embassies have said business as usual.

So an American can retire and live in Thailand  and shortly after arrival can get an extension of stay based on the Pension Income letter and leave there money in USA.

A Brit with the same intention will only have the 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank option that will work. Or live on visas for a year to get 65000 x 12 in there bank. The worry should be if Thai immigration stop pension letters completely.

[zydeco]

15 minutes ago, Orac said:

Also we now know the extent of the problem - 3000 letters a year.

That's it?  No need for the British Embassy or Thai Immigration to get worked up over this.  Not enough people involved to make any changes at all necessary.  Now, I'm absolutely convinced that it must have been the British who made this a public issue.  With only this few people involved, Thai immigration clearly have let the issue die down.  And that is why other embassies never made anything public.  They knew this was the case.  It's the British Embassy that has caused all this and, now, maybe, caused tremendous headaches for everybody.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, TommyDee said:

Actually, once implimented and understood  it will make life for everyone easier..  this was out interview with the British Embassy..  makes it very clear.. I think anyway ????

 

 

It doesnt make anything clear or easier, THAI IMMIGRATION HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED BANK STATEMENTS TO VERIFY INCOME, and have not announced that they will in the future.. The woman in the interview is straight up lying to you, you know she is lying. Are you on the Embassy payroll ?

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

It doesnt make anything clear or easier, THAI IMMIGRATION HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED BANK STATEMENTS TO VERIFY INCOME, and have not announced that they will in the future.. The woman in the interview is straight up lying to you, you know she is lying. Are you on the Embassy payroll ?

I do not feel that there is evidence that she is lying. I feel there is evidence that there are gaps in her knowledge about these immigration issues which makes the hope of full resolution of these issues going forward to look problematical. I don't even expect embassy staff to have such expertise. You don't go to your embassy for expertise on immigration matters in their host country. You go to other sources, either direct Thai immigration sources (well beyond their websites which you CANNOT take literally!, lost in translation, etc.), or outside experts (such as Ubonjoe on this forum). I wonder if that lady even knows what the combination method is. I wonder if that lady realizes income based applicants have not been required before to IMPORT their income into Thailand, much less all claimed, much less every month. And so on. 

 

A question that was lost here would have been a followup … so how do you know that in the combination of 800K bank account applications and income based applications where a letter wasn't shown that the number of INCOME BASED applications accepted without an income letter was not ZERO? Do you know the actual number of such applications (income based applications accepted without income letter)? (One can ASSUME not.)

[wayned]

The twit is trying to get Thai Immigration to change their rules to accommodate the  result of the Financial audit that the UK government did that says they can't afford to verify all documentation submitted in order to generate the income statement that they issue with the current guarantees about the Brit's income. This is exactly why the US Embassy will only do a sworn statement and the Brits are too "whatever" to admit it and change their system to be in line with the US.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I do not feel that there is evidence that she is lying. I feel there is evidence that there are gaps in her knowledge about these immigration issues which makes the hope of full resolution of these issues going forward to look problematical. I don't even expect embassy staff to have such expertise. You don't go to your embassy for expertise on immigration matters. You go to other sources, either direct Thai immigration sources, or outside experts (such as Ubonjoe on this forum). 

She says in the interview that currently half the people getting extensions based on 65k income are presenting bank statements, and immigration is currently accepting bank statements to prove income. Thats a blatant lie !!!

THAI IMMIGRATION HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED BANK STATEMENTS TO VERIFY INCOME and have not indicated they will in the future.

[soalbundy]

After this interview there would seem to be a moral obligation on her part to clear up matters of bank statements with the IO  in Bangkok, not waiting with bated breath though.

[zydeco]

If it's true that the British Embassy does just 3000 letters per year, that means that even if ALL the letters were somehow based on fake or false statements that only four percent of British expats would be altering things.  Four percent!  And only if ALL were guilty.  All this trouble caused by what could be considered a rounding error in other circumstances

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

She says in the interview that currently half the people getting extensions based on 65k income are presenting bank statements, and immigration is currently accepting bank statements to prove income. Thats a blatant lie !!!

THAI IMMIGRATION HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED BANK STATEMENTS TO VERIFY INCOME and have not indicated they will in the future.

I'm being generous to give her the benefit of the doubt that she doesn't understand the situation well enough to know about the history of that. Perhaps she didn't even ask the Thais that very important question -- how many exactly of INCOME APPLICATIONS were accepted without the letter. Not including the bank account applications. The fact that she relied on that website is evidence to me that she just has some gaps in knowledge, which is understandable as she doesn't work for Thai immigration.

 

Some perspective though -- have we ever had one report here of such an income based application being accepted without the letter? I recall NONE. Ever. 

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

After this interview there would seem to be a moral obligation on her part to clear up matters of bank statements with the IO  in Bangkok, not waiting with bated breath though.

According to her there is nothing to clear up, she states that immigration has "always" accepted bank statements for income proof. 

If she said, its now up to immigration to change their rules etc, that would be a fair statement.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

According to her there is nothing to clear up, she states that immigration has "always" accepted bank statements for income proof. 

If she said, its now up to immigration to change their rules etc, that would be a fair statement.

Like they are going to do that.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

According to her there is nothing to clear up, she states that immigration has "always" accepted bank statements for income proof. 

If she said, its now up to immigration to change their rules etc, that would be a fair statement.

Now that's a good point. From my POV, it supports my feeling that she simply lacks a complete understanding of this issue. It's a specialized area. Due to that gap in full knowledge, I reckon there is a good chance she didn't know enough to even ask all the important questions to the Thais. As I said before, I find the language of the "confirmation" she gave to be very weak tea indeed. 

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm being generous to give her the benefit of the doubt that she doesn't understand the situation well enough to know about the history of that. Perhaps she didn't even ask the Thais that very important question -- how many exactly of INCOME APPLICATIONS were accepted without the letter. Not including the bank account applications. The fact that she relied on that website is evidence to me that she just has some gaps in knowledge, which is understandable as she doesn't work for Thai immigration.

 

Some perspective though -- have we ever had one report here of such an income based application being accepted without the letter? I recall NONE. Ever. 

She is either absolutely clueless or bullshitting (I'm going with the later), either way she should not be working for the UK gov or be their spokesperson.

As for the radio station guy, he had the opportunity to tie her down to an answer , put her on the spot, several times, and just keeps letting her step around the issue.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

She is either absolutely clueless or bullshitting (I'm going with the later), either way she should not be working for the UK gov or be their spokesperson.

You're not being very diplomatic! ????

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

She is either absolutely clueless or bullshitting (I'm going with the later), either way she should not be working for the UK gov or be their spokesperson.

I agree with the bullshitting but that makes her perfectly qualified to work for the UK government.