Another Tragedy

[Valentine]

 

This young lady died a couple of days ago in Kathu because she was not wearing a helmet. Mother of 2 young children. Her & boyfriend (condition unknown) were hit from behind. Sitting on the side of the road & nabbing people for not wearing helmets or no licence is obviously not enough to slow down the daily tragedies that occur on our roads. A change in the mindset through a public education campaign should improve the cycle as fines do not appear to work especially when you see people approaching roadblocks quickly putting on a helmet only to take it off again once past the police.

[OneMoreFarang]

Obviously it's a good idea to wear a helmet. It's also a good idea to wear heavy protective clothes.

But reality is it's bloody hot in Thailand and above makes it feel even hotter.

 

I think good driving skills and a good idea about other drivers is more important.

Often I see mostly young guys (with helmet) squeezing between two cars or trucks at speed. It they see enough space to get through they use it. And most of the time that works. Until one of the cars or trucks moves a little and then the gap is not wide enough anymore. And if someone gets under a truck the helmet protect maybe 10%...

 

I am not against wearing helmets but I think there are higher priorities to educate riders and drivers.

[MJKT2014]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am not against wearing helmets but I think there are higher priorities

Having come off a bike more than once, I cannot think of anything more important than a helmet.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

Having come off a bike more than once, I cannot think of anything more important than a helmet.

Staying on the bike!

I am only half joking. I had smaller and bigger bikes for several years in Bangkok and until now I never had a major accident.

Was it luck? In part I guess, it can happen to everybody.

But I think part is also that I try to bring myself not into possibly dangerous situations more than necessary. I.e. if the light turns green I look first before I accelerate. I try not to get too near to crazy drivers and if the trip takes 5 minutes longer that is also no problem.

Lots of accidents are avoidable and knowing the other guy was at fault doesn't make it hurt less.

[beechbum]

2 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

Having come off a bike more than once, I cannot think of anything more important than a helmet.

Agreed, there's so many idiots on the road here that you need to do all you can to protect yourself, you can be the safest driver in the world and still get taken out by a moron, a helmets your 1st line of defence against said moron and the concrete that'll pop your head like an egg.

Special mention must go to the parents that ride their kids to school and don't wear a helmet, they're in the same category with the above mentioned morons.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am not against wearing helmets but I think there are higher priorities to educate riders and drivers.

Now that is an almost impossible task given Thailand and its culture, as the mindset often goes like this: –

 

– If it's my time to die, then so be it and nothing I can do will stop that.

– The amulet I wear will stop anything bad happening to me.

– Even if I die, I could come back as someone wealthy or famous.

 

Then of course there is the hardest thing to do with Thai people and that is to get them to understand "consequences" because not one that I have ever met, really does understand that what they do now can affect, for better or for worse, events in the future.

 

The inability of them to understand the last paragraph is often made very clear to me when I point out to various Thai people I know that they need to wear a crash helmet when they get on their bike, and their answer is something like, "no problem there are no police so I don't need".

 

Education is a wonderful thing, but it requires some grey matter to work to enable the benefits to be experienced.

[Valentine]

25 minutes ago, beechbum said:

Agreed, there's so many idiots on the road here that you need to do all you can to protect yourself, you can be the safest driver in the world and still get taken out by a moron, a helmets your 1st line of defence against said moron and the concrete that'll pop your head like an egg.

Special mention must go to the parents that ride their kids to school and don't wear a helmet, they're in the same category with the above mentioned morons.

Any needless death on the road is sad & tragic for the family but as you say being safe is no defence. if said idiot racing between cars just touches one he can be easily thrown off & then crushed, no helmet will save him. Then the car driver may have to face serious legal & financial consequences through no fault of his own.

 

Road education needs to include a whole swag of safe driving & not just helmets.

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Valentine

[xylophone]

2 minutes ago, Valentine said:

Road education needs to include a whole swag of safe driving & not just helmets.

Agree but difficult...…..see my previous post. 

[NamKangMan]

 

No argument from me that driver / rider education, with more strict testing standards, as well as wearing safety equipment, whether that be a helmet, or a seat belt, is important.  However, all of these is let down by enforcement here. 

 

What's the point of the above if you can "pay" 200 or 300 baht to the BiB to be on your way after being caught for a driving offense????

[Valentine]

1 minute ago, NamKangMan said:

 

No argument from me that driver / rider education, with more strict testing standards, as well as wearing safety equipment, whether that be a helmet, or a seat belt, is important.  However, all of these is let down by enforcement here. 

 

What's the point of the above if you can "pay" 200 or 300 baht to the BiB to be on your way after being caught for a driving offense????

The education needs to be structured in a way that people want to wear the safety equipment as they realise the consequences. They may not fear death but being a vegetable & or crippled for life with the emotional & financial burden on family just may make some think about future. We all know that being pro active & forward thinking is not a major trait here but it needs to come more to the forefront, not only in road education but the whole way of planning here, if Thailand is ever to rise above the rest. The assumption that all needed projects are designed in a way to guarantee a cut for the organizers. This kind of thinking needs to change or at least cut back on the largesse so leaving more to spend for the public good.

[LivinginKata]

20 minutes ago, Valentine said:

The education needs to be structured in a way that people want to wear the safety equipment as they realise the consequences. They may not fear death but being a vegetable & or crippled for life with the emotional & financial burden on family just may make some think about future. We all know that being pro active & forward thinking is not a major trait here but it needs to come more to the forefront, not only in road education but the whole way of planning here, if Thailand is ever to rise above the rest. The assumption that all needed projects are designed in a way to guarantee a cut for the organizers. This kind of thinking needs to change or at least cut back on the largesse so leaving more to spend for the public good.

 

We personally know a local Patong family who peddle gasoline on Nanai Road. Husband hits a pickup. Has no helmet. Brain damage. In Vashira for many weeks. Touch and go whether he will awake and function. We visited him in hospital about week 3 when he was recovering. Saw him many months later driving without helmet. I just shake my head ....  

[petermik]

You cannot educate people who believe they do not need educating......

[xylophone]

41 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

What's the point of the above if you can "pay" 200 or 300 baht to the BiB to be on your way after being caught for a driving offense????

Or for example if the local cops at the "traffic point" just let Thais without helmets drive through, which I have seen on many, many, many occasions..........

 

Why do they do that?? Who knows but perhaps because they realise that the fines will never be paid (or they don't have the money on them to pay it) or that it may put a financial strain on the poor, or more than likely because they know full well that any farang who is stopped will pay up almost immediately, or may even offer something a little "extra" to make it go away?

 

If everyone who was stopped for not wearing a helmet was fined a total of 1000 baht, or a motorcycle confiscation if they couldn't pay up, then I'm pretty sure the numbers of the helmetless would decrease significantly and rapidly.

 

On that point, someone on one of these threads, once pointed out that it was purely a revenue generating exercise, so the BIB could just go on collecting, however I counter that with the fact that there will always be tourists who will not wear crash helmets, and there will also be the locals who continue to rail against it, so monetary inflow will not be affected, it could even increase.
 

[madmitch]

20 hours ago, xylophone said:

Or for example if the local cops at the "traffic point" just let Thais without helmets drive through, which I have seen on many, many, many occasions..........

 

Why do they do that?? Who knows but perhaps because they realise that the fines will never be paid (or they don't have the money on them to pay it) or that it may put a financial strain on the poor, or more than likely because they know full well that any farang who is stopped will pay up almost immediately, or may even offer something a little "extra" to make it go away?

 

If everyone who was stopped for not wearing a helmet was fined a total of 1000 baht, or a motorcycle confiscation if they couldn't pay up, then I'm pretty sure the numbers of the helmetless would decrease significantly and rapidly.

 

On that point, someone on one of these threads, once pointed out that it was purely a revenue generating exercise, so the BIB could just go on collecting, however I counter that with the fact that there will always be tourists who will not wear crash helmets, and there will also be the locals who continue to rail against it, so monetary inflow will not be affected, it could even increase.
 

Agree.

 

There's also an issue with the lack of multi-tasking within the BiB. If a cop is on a specific duty, for example directing traffic, then anything else is ignored: helmets, seatbelts, mobile phone use while riding the bike, probably GBH, armed robbery and urinating in public as well. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by madmitch

[stuarty]

I mentioned on another tread about recently visiting Vietnam.

 

Another thing I noticed there is that there are thousands of motorbikes, and 100% helmet-wearing riders. Don't know how they achieve that - Where is Phuket going wrong?

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, stuarty said:

I mentioned on another tread about recently visiting Vietnam.

 

Another thing I noticed there is that there are thousands of motorbikes, and 100% helmet-wearing riders. Don't know how they achieve that - Where is Phuket going wrong?

Like you, I am also puzzled, however it could be a number of factors, including regular and strict law enforcement for anyone not wearing a helmet, whereas in Phuket the BIB seem to focus mainly on tourists, so the locals just continue what they've always done in the main, riding without a helmet.

 

If you add to that the normal Thai attitude of "I will not learn because I know everything" and the good point that someone else mentioned in as much as very often children learn from their parents who were probably riding motorbikes here way back before any of the helmet laws came into being, so just follow suit.

 

And how many of them here have actually got a Thai driving licence or passed any sort of test?

 

Apart from the above, I can offer no other explanation!

[Psimbo]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:51 AM, xylophone said:

Now that is an almost impossible task given Thailand and its culture, as the mindset often goes like this: –

 

– If it's my time to die, then so be it and nothing I can do will stop that.

– The amulet I wear will stop anything bad happening to me.

– Even if I die, I could come back as someone wealthy or famous.

 

Then of course there is the hardest thing to do with Thai people and that is to get them to understand "consequences" because not one that I have ever met, really does understand that what they do now can affect, for better or for worse, events in the future.

 

The inability of them to understand the last paragraph is often made very clear to me when I point out to various Thai people I know that they need to wear a crash helmet when they get on their bike, and their answer is something like, "no problem there are no police so I don't need".

 

Education is a wonderful thing, but it requires some grey matter to work to enable the benefits to be experienced.

I concur- it's a bit harsh but if people won't take responsibility for their actions its Natural Selection.

 

Contempt for the pathetic laws and even more pathetic 'punishments', drunks, young men and kids racing around like loons and riding down streets the wrong way, 'I'm only going 200m (well WALK then!) are just some of the issues. 

[NamKangMan]

17 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

I concur- it's a bit harsh but if people won't take responsibility for their actions its Natural Selection.

 

Contempt for the pathetic laws and even more pathetic 'punishments', drunks, young men and kids racing around like loons and riding down streets the wrong way, 'I'm only going 200m (well WALK then!) are just some of the issues. 

 

Rightly or wrongly, I view an accident in which an intoxicated / racing / ghost riding etc etc riders / drivers only hurt and kill themselves as a good result.  As you say, that is "Natural Selection" and hopefully they do not get to hurt an innocent road user in the future.  

 

However, it can not be viewed as "Natural Selection" when they kill / injure an innocent road user, which unfortunately, does not attract the punishment it should here.

[DonaldBattles]

If you value your feet I suggest that  you were closed toe shoes while cycling. Crocs should be good enough. Easy on and off. Flaps are bad news.

[Valentine]

I wonder why this has not been reported in the Thai or English media

[neeray]

On my first trip to Thailand 5 years ago, I was one of those farang idiots who did not wear a helmet. I got told once by a traffic cop, fined by another. Big deal, 500 baht did not deter me.

 

But !!!! Subsequent to that first trip, I joined ThaiVisa. Reading about the many motorcycle road deaths on TVF, my eyes were opened. On all subsequent trips, I wore a helmet.

 

My takeaway: Thais need a serious education about helmet usage (or no usage) and whether Thai or farang, stiff fines would speak loud. And enforcement, not just at checkpoints, would be a great deterrent. Come on army, step up to the challenge. Write it into your 20 year plan !

In the interest of your citizens, implement a "strict helmet wearing program" as one of a thousand badly needed steps to reducing the road carnage.

[DonaldBattles]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:31 AM, beechbum said:

Agreed, there's so many idiots on the road here that you need to do all you can to protect yourself, you can be the safest driver in the world and still get taken out by a moron, a helmets your 1st line of defence against said moron and the concrete that'll pop your head like an egg.

Special mention must go to the parents that ride their kids to school and don't wear a helmet, they're in the same category with the above mentioned morons.

When there is no enforcement of the law there can be no respect for the law. Having lived in Phuket many years I know much money the police have to collect monthly to send to the head man in Bangkok. The easy way they do this is stoping motorcycles. A drunk riding a motorcycle hit the back of my truck when it was stopped. He was injured no license or insurance. I pleaded with the police to jail him until he paid for my truck. The police said is just a poor simple drunk and you will never get paid. Use your own insurance.

 

[stevenl]

47 minutes ago, DonaldBattles said:

When there is no enforcement of the law there can be no respect for the law. Having lived in Phuket many years I know much money the police have to collect monthly to send to the head man in Bangkok. The easy way they do this is stoping motorcycles. A drunk riding a motorcycle hit the back of my truck when it was stopped. He was injured no license or insurance. I pleaded with the police to jail him until he paid for my truck. The police said is just a poor simple drunk and you will never get paid. Use your own insurance.

 

That was wise advice from police.

[Old Croc]

3 hours ago, neeray said:

On my first trip to Thailand 5 years ago, I was one of those farang idiots who did not wear a helmet. I got told once by a traffic cop, fined by another. Big deal, 500 baht did not deter me.

 

But !!!! Subsequent to that first trip, I joined ThaiVisa. Reading about the many motorcycle road deaths on TVF, my eyes were opened. On all subsequent trips, I wore a helmet.

 

My takeaway: Thais need a serious education about helmet usage (or no usage) and whether Thai or farang, stiff fines would speak loud. And enforcement, not just at checkpoints, would be a great deterrent. Come on army, step up to the challenge. Write it into your 20 year plan !

In the interest of your citizens, implement a "strict helmet wearing program" as one of a thousand badly needed steps to reducing the road carnage.

A couple of years back 2 cousins staying with us (early 20's) were giggling over a photo on their phones of another cousin who rear ended a car with his bike.

The picture showed the kid still on the boot of the car with his bloodied head through the back windscreen. They thought the picture was hilarious. He later died.

I don't believe it's possible to educate most Thais about safety on the roads.

[DrDave]

On 10/30/2018 at 1:04 AM, xylophone said:

Or for example if the local cops at the "traffic point" just let Thais without helmets drive through, which I have seen on many, many, many occasions..........

 

Why do they do that?? Who knows but perhaps because they realise that the fines will never be paid (or they don't have the money on them to pay it) or that it may put a financial strain on the poor, or more than likely because they know full well that any farang who is stopped will pay up almost immediately, or may even offer something a little "extra" to make it go away?

 

If everyone who was stopped for not wearing a helmet was fined a total of 1000 baht, or a motorcycle confiscation if they couldn't pay up, then I'm pretty sure the numbers of the helmetless would decrease significantly and rapidly.

 

On that point, someone on one of these threads, once pointed out that it was purely a revenue generating exercise, so the BIB could just go on collecting, however I counter that with the fact that there will always be tourists who will not wear crash helmets, and there will also be the locals who continue to rail against it, so monetary inflow will not be affected, it could even increase.
 

Strict enforcement of existing regulations, along with meaningful consequences for offenders would definitely bring about change.  I truly believe that many laws and regulations aren't enforced, and those that are come with minimal consequences because of a cultural trait. It seems there's a general desire on the part of police and local authorities to not inflict hardship on their fellow Thais, unless the offense is heinous or damaging to image. We see this every day - corrupt police are transferred to inactive positions instead of being sacked. People are allowed to illegally conduct business on public property because "it's their livelihood",  and fines and/or jail time for most offenses are so minimal that they have no effect as a deterrent.

[beechbum]

On 11/1/2018 at 9:39 AM, DonaldBattles said:

When there is no enforcement of the law there can be no respect for the law. Having lived in Phuket many years I know much money the police have to collect monthly to send to the head man in Bangkok. The easy way they do this is stoping motorcycles. A drunk riding a motorcycle hit the back of my truck when it was stopped. He was injured no license or insurance. I pleaded with the police to jail him until he paid for my truck. The police said is just a poor simple drunk and you will never get paid. Use your own insurance.

 

Very true Don.

One of my biggest gripes is the western parents riding motorcycles with their kids on-board taking them to school with no helmets or sometimes the parent has a helmet and the kids don't, i see this daily when doping my son at school.

[Old Croc]

19 minutes ago, beechbum said:

Very true Don.

One of my biggest gripes is the western parents riding motorcycles with their kids on-board taking them to school with no helmets or sometimes the parent has a helmet and the kids don't, i see this daily when doping my son at school.

A malapropism

[macahoom]

17 hours ago, Old Croc said:

A malapropism

 

"I see this daily when doping my son at school".

 

Or a Freudian slip?

Edited November 6, 2018 by macahoom

[beechbum]

dropping

[NamKangMan]

On 11/1/2018 at 11:44 AM, Valentine said:

I wonder why this has not been reported in the Thai or English media

 

Because it's just "ANOTHER tragedy" among so many here.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by NamKangMan