Big selloff of hotels in Chiang Mai - not lack of Chinese tourists but because of so many, official

[chama]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:53 AM, webfact said:

Former tourism industry chief Pornchai Jitranawasathian who now runs a Lanna tourism promotion board said that in reality the downtown in Chinese tourism was a minor factor.

Funny how a guy in charge of increasing tourism is saying its not because he isn't doing his job very well, its because everybody else was foolish and hit the market all at one time with their facilities flooding the market. And yet the numbers don't seem to support his claims....

[observer90210]

Some thought they could make a fast buck taking tourism, tourists and expats for granted.

 

The reality caught up, as many a tourist or expat is fed up with a Thai Bhat that is overrated, prices increasing daily, fed up with the visa hassles and red tape, fed up with the constant attempts to get ripped off by the local merchants, fed up with the taxi cheats always having to argue for the meter and much more..... you reap what you sow....

[ozmeldo]

Easy, simply manage your rooms better.

 

What is happening is that they never really saw much traffic because the mafia corralled all the tourists into x y z hotels. They've got nothing.

 

Now, they have even less than zero so it's time to sell.

 

[Saladin]

The quality of furniture and fit-out of most small hotels in Chiang Mai is unbelievably bad by any standards. What little furniture there is, is heavy, ugly, uncomfortable, and never ever had aesthetic appeal. The same room rates will get you a stylish air conditioned room with all mod cons in China. Hotel owners here need to get their act together and refurbish if they expect to compete with newer hotels, Air B'nB etc. 

[mduras01]

Simon says...

[balo]

On 11/27/2018 at 4:32 PM, fruitman said:

We paid full price for it but when i looked on Agoda i saw it had 75% discount already and loads of very bad reviews.

 

When i told the Thai who booked the executive suites for us about it he was so angry...from now on he'll also use Agoda first he said.

Very strange , why would you use a Thai to book your hotel ?  Why didn't you just book on Agoda yourself ? Maye the Thai even received commision from the hotel so you had to pay more. 

 

 

[ChrisY1]

On 11/27/2018 at 1:33 PM, cmsally said:

How about actually going to interview some of the people selling in order to get the real perspective. I doubt most of the officials really know the details.

Not polite to ask questions..

 

 

[heybruce]

11 hours ago, Saladin said:

The quality of furniture and fit-out of most small hotels in Chiang Mai is unbelievably bad by any standards. What little furniture there is, is heavy, ugly, uncomfortable, and never ever had aesthetic appeal. The same room rates will get you a stylish air conditioned room with all mod cons in China. Hotel owners here need to get their act together and refurbish if they expect to compete with newer hotels, Air B'nB etc. 

You don't expect quality in a Chiang Mai guesthouse, you expect basic comfort at a fraction of the price of a cheap hotel.  Many people are happy to pay 400 baht a night for a basic but clean guesthouse room near or in the old city than than pay 1000+ baht for a dingy hotel room.

[Gonzo the Face]

My opinion is that this concocted story is a glorified bunch of bull.  If they are being offered for sale its my opinion that smaller places like guesthouses are being put up for sale because they are being told they can no longer be offering nightly rentals.  After being maybe built. & operating for 20 , 30 years or more, now being told they cannot rent nightly because of not having a hotel license, which they cannot get, short of a massive rebuilding or modification program.  Some months back there was a newspaper article stating over 200 such places in CM do not meet the hotel regulation guidelines.  Its not in the public interests to have guesthouses to be under the same regulations as the larger hotels.  Separate regulations need to be created for a different product/user.  The only benefit is gained by the larger hotels who gain from the guesthouses going out of business.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Gonzo the Face said:

My opinion is that this concocted story is a glorified bunch of bull.  If they are being offered for sale its my opinion that smaller places like guesthouses are being put up for sale because they are being told they can no longer be offering nightly rentals.  After being maybe built. & operating for 20 , 30 years or more, now being told they cannot rent nightly because of not having a hotel license, which they cannot get, short of a massive rebuilding or modification program.  Some months back there was a newspaper article stating over 200 such places in CM do not meet the hotel regulation guidelines.  Its not in the public interests to have guesthouses to be under the same regulations as the larger hotels.  Separate regulations need to be created for a different product/user.  The only benefit is gained by the larger hotels who gain from the guesthouses going out of business.

You nailed it.  To benefit one or two dozen big hotels, hundreds of small, Thai owned businesses are being bankrupted.  The rich get richer and the poor go deeper into debt.

[a977]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 2:07 PM, heybruce said:

You nailed it.  To benefit one or two dozen big hotels, hundreds of small, Thai owned businesses are being bankrupted.  The rich get richer and the poor go deeper into debt.

As gonzo the face said it is not due to lack of tourists it is the Government crackdown on illegal hotels and guesthouses, the owners are trying to get out while they can with some sort of money.

[Saladin]

On 11/30/2018 at 2:07 PM, heybruce said:

You nailed it.  To benefit one or two dozen big hotels, hundreds of small, Thai owned businesses are being bankrupted.  The rich get richer and the poor go deeper into debt.

Hundreds of small Thai owned hotels deserve to go bankrupt if they are not prepared to raise their standards of furnishings and functionality.

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, Saladin said:

Hundreds of small Thai owned hotels deserve to go bankrupt if they are not prepared to raise their standards of furnishings and functionality.

Too right, let's get them all looking like Holiday Inn and Travelodge!

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, a977 said:

As gonzo the face said it is not due to lack of tourists it is the Government crackdown on illegal hotels and guesthouses, the owners are trying to get out while they can with some sort of money.

Did you miss the part where the government changed the rule?  These guesthouses were legal six months ago.  Owners who inquired about hotel licenses were told they didn't need them.  Now the government, either through stupidity or to cater to big hotels, has decided they must have hotel licenses which few guesthouses can get.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Saladin said:

Hundreds of small Thai owned hotels deserve to go bankrupt if they are not prepared to raise their standards of furnishings and functionality.

For under 500 baht you get a clean, comfortable, conveniently located basic room in a guesthouse without a lot of amenities.

 

For three times that much you get a basic hotel room which may have nicer furniture (or may not) and has the hotel amenities.

 

Many tourists preferred the first option.  Now the government has taken that away.

[jmd8800]

1 hour ago, Saladin said:

Hundreds of small Thai owned hotels deserve to go bankrupt if they are not prepared to raise their standards of furnishings and functionality.

and prices after they make the upgrades?

Edited December 2, 2018 by jmd8800

[cmsally]

There is a certain section of customers who scream for everything new and renovations; they are normally the ones that scream twice as loud when they realise price has doubled or tripled when the renos. are carried out.

To be honest , as with many businesses , you would soon go bust if you gave the customers everything they desired.

Chiang Mai at the moment suffers a huge glut in the middle market which by CM prices would be 1200-2500 Bt

These would be the minimum prices a new build/reno. place could charge. A lot of the bottom market has moved into that market by heeding the customers' "we want new" tantrums; and subsequently finds themselves up shit creek with no paddle.

Unfortunately many people have gone into business with huge debts and no idea of the returns they will get on their investment. The sums to some of us seem obvious but obviously some people have problems with"obvious".

Tourists need to realise that a lot of the time their "deserved" luxury is being enjoyed on the back of someone elses' fiscal carelessness.

[Saladin]

23 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Too right, let's get them all looking like Holiday Inn and Travelodge!

Most small cheap hotels in Chiang Mai are little better than slums.

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, Saladin said:

Most small cheap hotels in Chiang Mai are little better than slums.

I disagree.  Regardless of that, if people are willing to settle for less in order to pay less (and many people do so for weeks or months) then why deny them the option?

[cmsally]

23 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I disagree.  Regardless of that, if people are willing to settle for less in order to pay less (and many people do so for weeks or months) then why deny them the option?

If people assume cheaper places are slums (which I disagree with ), then of course they do not have to stay there . There are many other options for them to choose.

The problem is that some people think that places should not be able to operate because they don't meet a perceived personal standard. If that is the case then CM suddenly becomes a much more expensive destination. It will not be a case of people suddenly willing to pay more; it will be a case of CM losing a whole market segment. A market segment that traditionally supports many local businesses such as restaurants, laundry, tours etc etc

[cmsally]

1 hour ago, Saladin said:

Most small cheap hotels in Chiang Mai are little better than slums.

I rather think you need to back these accusations up with some examples, and then for a point of reference include your preferred accommodation of choice in CM.

[Saladin]

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

I rather think you need to back these accusations up with some examples, and then for a point of reference include your preferred accommodation of choice in CM.

Have you ever actually been into a CM "hotel" to see what you get for 250-400B per night?

[cmsally]

29 minutes ago, Saladin said:

Have you ever actually been into a CM "hotel" to see what you get for 250-400B per night?

Yes I have, many in fact. Not only in Chiangmai , but many other places.

[Sparkles]

Normal cycle of bubble and burst,happens in all countries.Australia,especially Sydney, is going through it right now.

Prices are going south and people with huge mortages are looking at a very dim financial future. 

 

In CM rents on commercial properties are soaring and people have simply walked away as their leases expired.

 

There are 100's of empty new and old shop houses, all over the province, on main roads & up side sois.

 

 

[cmsally]

2 minutes ago, Sparkles said:

Normal cycle of bubble and burst,happens in all countries.Australia,especially Sydney, is going through it right now.

Prices are going south and people with huge mortages are looking at a very dim financial future. 

 

In CM rents on commercial properties are soaring and people have simply walked away as their leases expired.

 

There are 100's of empty new and old shop houses, all over the province, on main roads & up side sois.

 

 

If the supposed land tax goes through (which I think it pretty much has) and is put into action in 2020 as planned, then any commercial property in central CM  is  going to be paying approx. 30-50,000 bt upwards per year in just that tax alone. It will decimate what is remaining of small business.

[heybruce]

 

Have you ever actually been into a CM "hotel" to see what you get for 250-400B per night?

Not hotels, but I've been in a very nice guesthouse in the old city where I got a large, clean, comfortable room with a private bath and mini-fridge for 400 baht a night.  That was some years ago, but I don't think the prices have gone up that much.

[LivinLOS]

 

Did you miss the part where the government changed the rule?  These guesthouses were legal six months ago.  Owners who inquired about hotel licenses were told they didn't need them.  Now the government, either through stupidity or to cater to big hotels, has decided they must have hotel licenses which few guesthouses can get.

They were never legal, they were just tolerated.. Often for a small consideration fee.. 

 

They all know the hotel license law, along with its needs for fire escapes, safety designs, etc etc.. But they just wanted to operate illegally on the cheap. 

The big hotels fear the airbnb phenomenon and lobby behind the scenes for a clampdown. 

 

The most comical aspect is the TAT promoting village homestays, when that very activity is the illegal non hotel license holding accommodation. 

[scottiejohn]

 

Have you ever actually been into a CM "hotel" to see what you get for 250-400B per night?

Yes, and good value.  And that is in CM not the outskirts.

[heybruce]

 

They were never legal, they were just tolerated.. Often for a small consideration fee.. 

 

They all know the hotel license law, along with its needs for fire escapes, safety designs, etc etc.. But they just wanted to operate illegally on the cheap. 

The big hotels fear the airbnb phenomenon and lobby behind the scenes for a clampdown. 

 

The most comical aspect is the TAT promoting village homestays, when that very activity is the illegal non hotel license holding accommodation. 

People rely on the government officials to tell them what is required to operate legally.  Guesthouse owners did not go to government offices and ask "Can I get away with operating a guesthouse without a hotel license?".  They went to government offices and asked "Do I need a hotel license to operate a guesthouse?".  They were told no.  Now they are being told differently.

 

It amazes my how some people are determined to blame the victims.

[scottiejohn]

 

It amazes my how some people are determined to blame the victims.

I think you mean "It amazes my how so many people are determined to blame the victims".

The "blamers" also ignore the fact, that for very many of them, they ignore" illegality when it suits them and then complain when the "rules" are enforced to their new disadvantage.

 

I do however have a great deal of sympathy for the legitimate business owners caught up in this "legal enforcement" nightmare.

Edited December 3, 2018 by scottiejohn