Septic tanks ?

[Ahab]

17 hours ago, livram said:

I have been convinced and only wish I replaced my concrete cesspits long ago. As soon as I can find a crew to do it properly the septic tank will be the project for 2019.

 

Do it right the first time and only have to do it once.

 

Thanks for the PDF.

A picture of the leach field associated with our septic system. Large pipes are from the septic tank, the smaller pipe if from the sinks and showers. The gravel is about 90 cm deeper than the pipes (pipes were covered with gravel after this photo) and all the gravel is covered by the white ground cloth (bought at Rungsangthai Hardware in Buriram).

[canopy]

22 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

and are as polluting as any plastic septic tank, they certainly are as effective as a plastic tank. If you think that the waste is not "treated" then after that length of time the "untreated" waste would certainly be thousands of litres

You don't seem to understand how a septic system works. With a cesspit untreated blackwater seeps right into the ground at one concentrated spot--the bottom. This is bad. The only thing that exits a septic tank is secondary waste out the outlet after undergoing biological treatment after a retention period. Then with a septic system much more treatment happens after the tank. The secondary waste is spread over a long underground gravel trench where it is broken down by microorganisms and grass then pulls up the nutrients.

 

[livram]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

For our house the locals that dug the hole for the septic tank charged 1 baht per liter (tank size), so our 1600 liter tank cost us 1600 baht) and our leach field was a another 1500 baht.

Thank you, that is exactly the info I was interested in.

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, livram said:

Thank you, that is exactly the info I was interested in.

Simple labor most places is 300-400 baht per day/person.  1 baht per liter sounds like a "farang" price to me.

[canopy]

Yes. I sturdy thai working alone will have a hole dug for septic tank in 2 days.

 

[steve73]

31 minutes ago, canopy said:

Yes. I sturdy thai working alone will have a hole dug for septic tank in 2 days.

 

Or a small macro (digger) will take about 1 hour... around 6-700bt per hour.

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Simple labor most places is 300-400 baht per day/person.  1 baht per liter sounds like a "farang" price to me.

It took two people two days to dig it, place the tank and fill. At 400 baht per day per person 1600 baht is about the right price. At least it seemed like a fair price to me, and that is all that matters.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Ahab

[bankruatsteve]

20 minutes ago, Ahab said:

It took two people two days to dig it, place the tank and fill. At 400 baht per day per person 1600 baht is about the right price. At least it seemed like a fair price to me, and that is all that matters.

If you are both happy with the price, then for sure it is the fair price.  Just an anecdote:  when I was 16 I was cheap labor and got stuck digging sewer trenches for the plumber of an apartment build.  Working alone even with the gravely soil, if I took 4 days to move 57 cu. ft. of it, I would have been fired.

Edited December 26, 2018 by bankruatsteve

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, canopy said:

You don't seem to understand how a septic system works. With a cesspit untreated blackwater seeps right into the ground at one concentrated spot--

Well yes I do understand, and the blackwater gets exactly the same kind of treatment (microbes digesting the effluent) as in any other septic tank system, if it didn't there would be the buildup of solids I mentioned. It is also why toilet paper is banned from many toilets in Thailand.

 

Sure the retention time Could be shorter so possibly the digestion may not be as good.

 

FWIW I don't recommend installing that kind of system if you are putting in a new one. However if it is already installed and functions perfectly there is absolutely no need to fix something that isn't broken.

Edited December 26, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[canopy]

Not sure you quite understand. A septic tank cannot leak. If it had no bottom like a cesspit the water could drain out and it would be incapable of floating the solids and treating the waste. And any leak from a septic tank would be concentrated blackwater which would be very bad like a cesspit. A properly sized septic tank will have a 4 day retention and could also have multiple treatment chambers. The only effluent leaving a septic tank is treated secondary waste, never blackwater like a cesspit. And even then this secondary waste of a septic system is then dispersed over a very wide area for further in ground treatment.

 

[Joinaman]

thanks guys

Seems my old concrete cess pit has given up now, its filling up withing one month now

So looking at replacing my concrete cess pit with the plastic septic tank

Have 2 bed, one bath, but normally only 2 of us living here

would 1,00 -1200 size tank do i need to go to 1600 ?

would do like the picture with the long, gravel filled leach area, but, 

do i take the membrane all the way from the base, up the side and then across the top ?

Any reason why not just across the top before topping with soil and turf ?, or is it better all the way to prevent the soil washing into the gravel and blocking it ?

Thanks for your advice, always grateful for it

[canopy]

If you don't mind translating to gallons briefly then below is an excellent sizing guide. This inspectapedia reference also answers all of your other questions and even other questions you haven't asked yet.

 

https://inspectapedia.com/septic/Septic_Tank_Size_Tables.php

 

[Joinaman]

3 hours ago, canopy said:

If you don't mind translating to gallons briefly then below is an excellent sizing guide. This inspectapedia reference also answers all of your other questions and even other questions you haven't asked yet.

 

https://inspectapedia.com/septic/Septic_Tank_Size_Tables.php

 

thanks for the link regarding sizing

have seen similar elsewhere that show a minimum of 3,700 liters, but the biggest i have seen in the merchants round here is 1600

but told maybe can order 2,000 one

so WAY undersized bu your charts, but not, it appears, bu Thai standards 

so which size will work is the question, for a single bathroom, 2 person dwelling 

[Ahab]

16 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

thanks for the link regarding sizing

have seen similar elsewhere that show a minimum of 3,700 liters, but the biggest i have seen in the merchants round here is 1600

but told maybe can order 2,000 one

so WAY undersized bu your charts, but not, it appears, bu Thai standards 

so which size will work is the question, for a single bathroom, 2 person dwelling 

The 3,700 liter minimum size is for more temperate climes (i.e. Europe, or North America). The tropical heat here in Thailand speeds up the process and much smaller units are adequate here.

[lopburi3]

You will only be putting a fraction of the household water use in the septic tank and the heat of ground here should keep it working fine.  You also do not have to allow for frozen ground half the year here.  Believe 1600 is normal home size unit here so believe will work fine.  Am not a big fan of oversizing anything.

 

[Joinaman]

34 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

You will only be putting a fraction of the household water use in the septic tank and the heat of ground here should keep it working fine.  You also do not have to allow for frozen ground half the year here.  Believe 1600 is normal home size unit here so believe will work fine.  Am not a big fan of oversizing anything.

 

thanks Lopburi

that was my thinking but nice to confirm

just got to find some one to dig the big holes, getting too old to do that now, plus hard ground

 

[canopy]

11 hours ago, Ahab said:

The 3,700 liter minimum size is for more temperate climes (i.e. Europe, or North America). The tropical heat here in Thailand speeds up the process and much smaller units are adequate here.

The building codes of Florida mandate a 3400 liter *minimum* septic tank size and some will need bigger than this. Just because we are in thailand is no excuse to make up our own rules with no factual basis arbitrarily to cut corners.

 

11 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

You will only be putting a fraction of the household water use in the septic tank and the heat of ground here should keep it working fine.  You also do not have to allow for frozen ground half the year here.  Believe 1600 is normal home size unit here so believe will work fine.  Am not a big fan of oversizing anything.  

Florida does not freeze and mandates 3400 liters minimum. And doing something because you see others doing it and getting a feeling this is "normal" is not a good building approach in a country where a lot of things are commonly done wrong. This is why most people end up with cesspits.

 

11 hours ago, Ahab said:

but told maybe can order 2,000 one

You can order any size you want even way bigger than that. They have catalogs with all sizes. If you care whether the septic tank adequately treats the waste, it's probably a good idea to size your septic tank rather than guessing. If your greywater is divided that can play a role in sizing.

 

Just depends if you want to do things based on what some guy you never met before says or if you want to do things that are proven to work well. Most people in Thailand are comfortable with the former, I'm not. Too easy to get burned. When your drain field fills with gunk, the well water is polluted, and you're back to having the truck come out frequently to pump out your septic tank don't say you weren't warned.

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by canopy

[cornishcarlos]

12 minutes ago, canopy said:

The building codes of Florida mandate a 3400 liter *minimum* septic tank size and some will need bigger than this

 

What have Florida building codes got to do with a septic tank in Thailand ??

Americans always want bigger ???? 

There might be a huge margin of safety in their calculations to prevent anyone getting sued down the line !!!

[Joinaman]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

The building codes of Florida mandate a 3400 liter *minimum* septic tank size and some will need bigger than this. Just because we are in thailand is no excuse to make up our own rules with no factual basis arbitrarily to cut corners.

 

Florida does not freeze and mandates 3400 liters minimum. And doing something because you see others doing it and getting a feeling this is "normal" is not a good building approach in a country where a lot of things are commonly done wrong. This is why most people end up with cesspits.

 

You can order any size you want even way bigger than that. They have catalogs with all sizes. If you care whether the septic tank adequately treats the waste, it's probably a good idea to size your septic tank rather than guessing. If your greywater is divided that can play a role in sizing.

 

Just depends if you want to do things based on what some guy you never met before says or if you want to do things that are proven to work well. Most people in Thailand are comfortable with the former, I'm not. Too easy to get burned. When your drain field fills with gunk, the well water is polluted, and you're back to having the truck come out frequently to pump out your septic tank don't say you weren't warned.

 

thanks

but in Florida do you put ALL waste water into septic tank, so need bigger tanks, like in Australia

but here in Thailand only the toilet waste goes to the tanks, the rest of the water goes to ground, so much smaller tanks needed ?

[Fruit Trader]

2 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

What have Florida building codes got to do with a septic tank in Thailand ??

Americans always want bigger ???? 

There might be a huge margin of safety in their calculations to prevent anyone getting sued down the line !!!

Thai poo not same Farang poo. Florida needs big septic tanks because big hard log turds from eating too much fatty junk food take longer to break down.

[Enoon]

On 12/20/2018 at 7:58 PM, livram said:

What is the approximate cost to replace concrete cesspit with plastic septic tank system?

 

Lived in this house 25 years. First 15 years it took over a year for 2 connecting 4 ring cesspit too fill up. Last few years it fills every two weeks. The water rises above the toilet outlet pipe and toilet doesn't flush properly. Air bubbles.

 

I have a feeling the ground under the cesspits have just gotten soaked.

 

Encountered exactly the same problem (property not mine).

 

Earth at base of pit has become impermeable due to soil compacting and clogging with "matter" so will not drain.

 

Install drain pipe below level of inlet pipe into tank.

 

Make sure the mouth of the drain pipe has a 90 degree bend on it with a downward extension of about 50cm.

 

The new drain pipe will now only receive liquid (solids drop to bottom of tank) once the level has risen above the level of the lower extension bottom end.

 

Particles in suspension drop to the bottom as the liquid rises to the horizontal level of the new outlet.

 

Run drain pipe 5m+ away from tank into another tank.

 

Liquid drains into new tank but without solids or particles to clog it up.

 

Cost of materials/delivery about 800baht (plastic piping included) from your local manufacturer of "concreteware".

 

Clear sludge out of old tank when it rises to level of outlet bottom....5 years?

 

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Enoon

[MikeN]

Quote

The building codes of Florida mandate a 3400 liter *minimum* septic tank size and some will need bigger than this. Just because we are in thailand is no excuse to make up our own rules with no factual basis arbitrarily to cut corners.

But that 3400L minimum in the good ole USA is for all the waste water from your house ...... dishwasher, washing machine, long hot showers, etc .... the modern thinking is to only put toilet waste into a septic tank and the rest goes through a greasetrap and into a leach field. If you put detergent, shampoo, soap etc into the septic tank the chemicals in them  can kill off the bacteria that are supposed to be processing your crap.

[canopy]

On 1/20/2019 at 7:33 AM, cornishcarlos said:

What have Florida building codes got to do with a septic tank in Thailand ??

I could understand if you asked this were Alaska referenced, but surely you can understand Florida in particular has a comparable climate to Thailand. In light of the fact there don't seem to be any rules in Thailand the next best thing is to start with expert opinion of those who have already done the research elsewhere.

 

On 1/20/2019 at 4:07 PM, MikeN said:

But that 3400L minimum in the good ole USA is for all the waste water from your house

Yes and I've already said it: if you aren't putting greywater into the tank that can make a big reduction in size needed since greywater is the bulk of the waste water and sizing has a lot to do with retention time.

 

On 1/19/2019 at 1:56 PM, Joinaman said:

Have 2 bed, one bath, but normally only 2 of us living here

would 1,00 -1200 size tank do i need to go to 1600 ?

 

It's a good idea to follow general sizing guidelines instead of trimming to your particular situation at the given instant. Over time your usage could change. Or the house could change hands altogether. Building codes allow your system to continue to work well with good future proofing. If you cut corners any unplanned changes down the line can cause expensive problems to solve. I was once at a campsite in Thailand where a marathon took place. Their system couldn't handle it. Stools were overflowing and there were several inches of blackwater on the bathroom floor. Imagine you have a lot of guests over and something similar happens at your house. So again, best to follow well defined rules on your plumbing rather than make a guesstimate.

 

[lopburi3]

56 minutes ago, canopy said:

Their system couldn't handle it. Stools were overflowing and there were several inches of blackwater on the bathroom floor. Imagine you have a lot of guests over and something similar happens at your house.

The only place I have experienced that was in Homestead, Florida, USA in 1989 in a new home and this was single occupant.  Sewer pipe was crushed.  ..it happens.  Obviously a huge inflow at a campsite is likely to be a mess.  

[canopy]

8 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Obviously a huge inflow at a campsite is likely to be a mess.  

Perhaps it was inevitable in this case, but the bathroom was quite large with a whole bunch of toilets. At the time a certain scenario popped in my head however:

 

helper: hey, how many rings do we put in here?

builder: 3

helper: why?

builder: because that's what we use everywhere else

helper: right on.

 

[Lacessit]

On 12/20/2018 at 8:37 PM, steve73 said:

Most likely cause of a cess-pit repeatedly blocking is occasionally using toilet paper... It disintegrates, but doesn't biodegrade, and forms an effective seal on all the "leak points" between the rings, and blocks the ground pores further away.  Condoms, etc, an other non-biodegradables act the same way obviously.

But the point is, it can take years until the ground gets "blocked up", and then the tank fills repeatedly.

 

Check also for a permanently overflowing toilet cistern.

This is what bum guns are for. Any toilet paper used should go into a wastebasket, and be disposed of separately - not flushed down the toilet. Septic tanks work much better when they only have faeces and pee to deal with.

[Lacessit]

On 1/20/2019 at 10:37 AM, Fruit Trader said:

Thai poo not same Farang poo. Florida needs big septic tanks because big hard log turds from eating too much fatty junk food take longer to break down.

How many bum guns do they have in Florida? It's the masses of toilet paper being flushed which creates the need for bigger septic tanks.

[bankruatsteve]

Most toilet paper these days is biodegradable and not an issue for septic or other systems.  Well, within a reasonable wipe which I'm sure some people do abuse.

Edited January 22, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[Fruit Trader]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

How many bum guns do they have in Florida? It's the masses of toilet paper being flushed which creates the need for bigger septic tanks.

Not many. They would require very high pressure bum guns to wash away the fatty turd residue which is unsafe and can result in severe anal blow back.

[Lacessit]

18 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

Not many. They would require very high pressure bum guns to wash away the fatty turd residue which is unsafe and can result in severe anal blow back.

I knew an American in my condo whose diet consisted solely of McDonald's and Pizza, with an occasional excursion to an American restaurant noted for the large servings. He was morbidly obese.

When he died, his intestinal system was so clogged up with food it had stopped moving.