Report: Successful retirement extension using monthly income, no consul letter

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

Ubonjoe mentioned an easy alternative to a bank statement - copies of the bank book countersigned by the bank.  To my mind, this plus a bank letter is the easiest proof.  My understanding is that the bank letter must be dated on the day that the application is made.  I assume (hope) that the bank book copies could be countersigned at an earlier date in the month of application provided that they showed  a transfer deposit for that month.

Not all offices want it on the same day. Some want it done the day for and other a fews is allowed. Not sure they will be so tight on the requirement to when proving income. Before they wanted the letter on the same day to prove the 400k or 800k was still in the bank on the date of application.

[LawrenceN]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

First he asked for one to verify his income by showing the transfers into the country. Then immigration told him to get the standard letter used to verify his account.  That is the same standard letter used for the 400k or 800k baht in the bank for that option.

As usual, ubonjoe is correct. I did not save a copy of the letter. I walked straight from the mall back to the IO's counter. To me, it was nonsensical administrivia. Why verify my balance when monthly deposits are what matters? The only answer is that that's what the rules demand. AFAIK, they would have accepted the letter if my balance was ten baht. The banks don't know about verifying monthly income, just standing balance.

[LawrenceN]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

Attached is a specimen example of what I believe to be the current version of the letter issued by Bangkok Bank (with acknowledgements to @KhunBENQ)

BKKB letter example.pdf

Yes, like that.

[steve73]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Correct - and the new rules state they will be flexible in the 1st year, so 7 mo of monthly international-transfer history should be plenty.

 

I'd be interested to hear from any Danes that have or are about to extend this month.. It's possible they can show no satisfactory deposits.

 

Also UK, US, & Oz citizens who missed the opportunity to get income letters/affadivits who may not even managed to get one suitable deposit as yet.

[onera1961]

5 hours ago, Psimbo said:

Is having the 800k in the bank no longer valid?

People keep asking the same question thousand times? If it's not clear by now, it will never be clear. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by onera1961

[onera1961]

56 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

It turns out that several financial institutions in the US offer free SWIFT wire transfers.   Check with your institution.

Can you please list a few (if not credit unions)? I have accounts in almost all US banks and I will open an account if needed. I use transferwise every week to transfer to Bangkok bank and they are coded as FTT.  If SWIFT is free, I may give it a go to check out the exchange rates. Thanks

Edited January 16, 2019 by onera1961

[onera1961]

26 minutes ago, LawrenceN said:

The banks don't know about verifying monthly income, just standing balance.

I read in TVF that banks are working with immigration to standardize the letter. We have to wait and see what it turns out. may be the same as 800K letter. 

[Jim P]

It doesn`t actually have to be pension income, right ? Just so long as the transfers are proven to be international the source is irrelevant, is that correct ? You wouldn`t need a pension letter confirming pensionable income in access of 65K

[DogNo1]

Pib, you are correct.  It IS April 1st.  My mistake????

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, Jim P said:

It doesn`t actually have to be pension income, right ? Just so long as the transfers are proven to be international the source is irrelevant, is that correct ? You wouldn`t need a pension letter confirming pensionable income in access of 65K

The New Rules for income-based financials say "pension" - but it is debatable whether the meaning of the Thai specifies the exact English definition.  Some IOs in the past have used the English version of the word "pension" to block extensions, usually for marriage-based extensions, and usually when trying to divert the applicant to get an agent-commission.  

 

But, in general, an IO can always ask to see backup-documentation regarding the origin of your income, for any income-based extension - same as they could and have before (and still can) with an embassy-letter. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by JackThompson

[DogNo1]

Fidelity does free Swift transfers and Mapguy says that USAA does also.  I haven't been able to confirm that with USAA yet.  They charged me $45, perhaps improperly.  What I know is free with USAA is domestic transfers but that option goes away on April 1st with Bangkok Bank's policy of only accepting IAT transfers after that.  Bangkok Bank says that after that date, ordinary ACH transfers will be returned.

[wgdanson]

30 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Can you please list a few (if not credit unions)? I have accounts in almost all US banks and I will open an account if needed. I use transferwise every week to transfer to Bangkok bank and they are coded as FTT.  If SWIFT is free, I may give it a go to check out the exchange rates. Thanks

Why every week, there is a minimum charge. Do it monthly.

In UK, a SWIFT from my Nationwide account cost £20. HSBC £4, First Direct...FREE. Guess who I use !

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by wgdanson

[Jim P]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The New Rules for income-based financials say "pension" - but it is debatable whether the meaning of the Thai specifies the exact English definition.  Some IOs in the past have used the English version of the word "pension" to block extensions, usually for marriage-based extensions, and usually when trying to divert the applicant to get an agent-commission.  

 

But, in general, an IO can always ask to see backup-documentation regarding the origin of your income, for any income-based extension - same as they could and have before (and still can) with an embassy-letter. 

My income is derived from both pension and private rental, Im not yet in receipt of a state pension and my private pension at current ex rates now falls short of 65K. Funny it looks like I can just deposit the 800k and no questions asked?

[Lipoman]

OP Lawrence, thanks for this info, especially for me since I am planning to immigrate and retire in Thailand in the next two years.

 

Please, if it's not too much trouble, would you provide a list, in sequential order, of what you provided to the IO for your Visa?  

This will assist me now as I plan my future.  I'm asking for this info in case I choose to use the Income Method vs 800k in a Thai Bank.  Thanks.   Note: I shall not use the Combination Method. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Lipoman

[scubascuba3]

Why every week, there is a minimum charge. Do it monthly.
In UK, a SWIFT from my Nationwide account cost £20. HSBC £4, First Direct...FREE. Guess who I use !
 

First Direct? also has a monthly account fee plus poor interest rate

[Jim P]

2 minutes ago, Lipoman said:

OP Lawrence, thanks for this info, especially for me since I am planning to immigrate and retire in Thailand in the next two years.

 

Please, if it's not too much trouble, would you provide a list, in sequential order, of what you provided to the IO for your Visa?  

This will assist me now as I plan my future.  I'm asking for this info in case I choose to use the Income Method vs 800k in a Thai Bank.  Thanks. 

You have about 4 years before this will affect you and it will all be a lot clearer by then, I wouldn`t worry now.

[wgdanson]

19 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

26 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Why every week, there is a minimum charge. Do it monthly.
In UK, a SWIFT from my Nationwide account cost £20. HSBC £4, First Direct...FREE. Guess who I use !
 

First Direct? also has a monthly account fee plus poor interest rate

No fee if you put £1000 a month in, and in my case it goes straight out again, to my Bangkok bank Foreign Account so interest doesn't interest me. 

[Lipoman]

For clarity: 

While legally residing in Thailad, does the Source of one's Income matter to Thai Immigration? In other words, as long as the Income is legally obtained and brought into a Thai Bank, does it truly matter to Thai Immigration if the Income is labeled "Pension" (Gov't social security (USA), Military, company/firm); Dividends"; "Capital Gains"; "Alimony"; "Inheritance"; "Lottery Annuity"; "Insurance Annuity"; "Withdrawal From Savings"; Allowance From Parents"; "Passive Income From Real Estate", etc.? 

 

Seems to me, if one's income is sourced from outside of Thailand, regardless of name/type of income, and electronically transferred into Thailand (e.g., ATM withdrawal from one's home country account, SWIFT or ACH or Xoom (or the like) transfer from one's home country, etc.) that information is what Thai Immigration is looking for within one's documents. 

 

Seems simple to me as long as the THB65,000 minimum Income threshold is met by the applicant.

[Lipoman]

Jim P, I was looking for the list to assist me, for my planning purpose.  Two years to retirement is less than 100 weeks away from now.   And it might help reduce the redundant questions posed by others on this forum.  Thanks. 

[wgdanson]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The OP's transfers on his bank-statement were all "FTT" foreign transfers (Bangkok bank's international code), so the assumption that one does not have to prove the transfers "are from abroad" is not supported by this report.

 

Others have reported their banks tell them it will take a couple weeks to get a 12-mo statement.  The OP's IO accepted his older 6-mo statement - yours may not.

I would suggest folks apply for a 12-mo statement in-advance of their extension - just to be on the safe-side with whatever IO/office you are forced to deal with, based on where you happen to live. 

I was planning on downloading a statement every month, highlighting the Foreign deposits, printing them out, getting them stamped by Bkk Bank,  and taking 12 of them to Immigration in December. Anyone see any problems please, as this month's one will be 11 months old in December.

Edited January 16, 2019 by wgdanson

[sletraveler]

Good to read this.
Was at the Lamphun immigration office today. Yes they have one here now. The kind lady informed us that indeed 800,000 in the bank was now the only way to go for the retirement visa. [emoji854]


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Psimbo]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

People keep asking the same question thousand times? If it's not clear by now, it will never be clear. 

Thank you for your 'assistance'- If it were clear nobody would be asking. Fortunately someone HAS now clarified it (edit- three at least now so thank you to THEM). My Post #49 was the FIRST query on this thread that i can see.

 

As your post is number 65 where do you come up with 'thousands' any way? ????

Edited January 16, 2019 by Psimbo

[JimGant]

Quote

It doesn`t actually have to be pension income, right ? Just so long as the transfers are proven to be international the source is irrelevant, is that correct ? You wouldn`t need a pension letter confirming pensionable income in access of 65K

It wouldn't make sense for them to ask for pension proof, when your source of cash can be so many other channels. In fact, this is about as pure as they can get, when what they really want to know is do you have 65k/mo to spend in Thailand. By showing you do have such cash flow into Thailand, we (and they) can now forget about such meaningless arguments as whether or not your "income" is gross or net (net of what? taxes, alimony payments, child payments, insurance allotments, gambling debts, etal). It's, pure and simple, a 65k positive cash flow, net of all negative cash flows that can't make their way into Thailand. And whether it's from a gov't pension, or a gift from Aunt Martha, should make no difference to Thai Immigration.

 

This is such a simple way to show positive cash flow into Thailand that you might wonder if they are pondering requiring all countries to eventually go the same route (since income letters can never guarantee the availability of that income to reach Thailand).

 

Having said the above, I'm sure some IO will ask someone for some backup proof of the source of their "income" coming into Thailand. Hopefully, that will be the exception....

[OJAS]

8 hours ago, sfokevin said:

So at ones 6 month mark one could go to the bank and get an official first 6 month statement then at renewal time the second six month statement... Would this be doable?... I would worry immigration might balk at the first 6 month statement as it is technically 6 months old...

 

7 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Others have reported their banks tell them it will take a couple weeks to get a 12-mo statement.  The OP's IO accepted his older 6-mo statement - yours may not.

I would suggest folks apply for a 12-mo statement in-advance of their extension - just to be on the safe-side with whatever IO/office you are forced to deal with, based on where you happen to live. 

Consistent with the maximum 6-month validity period which the Immigration Bureau prescribed in 2013 for embassy income confirmations, it is, I think, to be hoped that a first 6-month statement which was less than 6 months old (even if only by a day or 2) when the extension of stay to which it relates was applied for would be deemed acceptable as a matter of course.

[ubonjoe]

33 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I was planning on downloading a statement every month, highlighting the Foreign deposits, printing them out, getting them stamped by Bkk Bank,  and taking 12 of them to Immigration in December. Anyone see any problems please, as this month's one will be 11 months old in December.

You can print out a statement on Bangkok Banks online banking. I have already done it from August to January and printed it to a PDF to save it for printing later (it is in a folder backed up on Google drive). I also highlight the transfers using Adobe Acrobat. This for my extension due in August. Good since I can back it up with my bank book. Next one will be from February onwards to do July.

[LawrenceN]

1 hour ago, Lipoman said:

OP Lawrence, thanks for this info, especially for me since I am planning to immigrate and retire in Thailand in the next two years.

 

Please, if it's not too much trouble, would you provide a list, in sequential order, of what you provided to the IO for your Visa?  

This will assist me now as I plan my future.  I'm asking for this info in case I choose to use the Income Method vs 800k in a Thai Bank.  Thanks.   Note: I shall not use the Combination Method. 

No. It's in the OP, except the copy of the yellow book, which I mentioned later, and is unnecessary. Re-read carefully.

[Jim P]

47 minutes ago, Lipoman said:

Jim P, I was looking for the list to assist me, for my planning purpose.  Two years to retirement is less than 100 weeks away from now.   And it might help reduce the redundant questions posed by others on this forum.  Thanks. 

Lipoman, this thread has nothing to do with the visa you need for retirement. this is for the extension of that visa. If you use your OA visa to its full advantage this wont concern you for 4 years. As I said thing will be much clearer, and maybe even changed by then.

 

[wgdanson]

16 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You can print out a statement on Bangkok Banks online banking. I have already done it from August to January and printed it to a PDF to save it for printing later (it is in a folder backed up on Google drive). I also highlight the transfers using Adobe Acrobat. This for my extension due in August. Good since I can back it up with my bank book. Next one will be from February onwards to do July.

Thanks Joe, exactly what I am doing except I am transferring £1000 per month (Bht 41000 ish) every month, and will have the extra Bht 320k in my Foreign Currency Account, obviously from UK and can be proved. Sound feasible?

Edited January 16, 2019 by wgdanson

[wgdanson]

37 minutes ago, JimGant said:

It wouldn't make sense for them to ask for pension proof, when your source of cash can be so many other channels. In fact, this is about as pure as they can get, when what they really want to know is do you have 65k/mo to spend in Thailand. By showing you do have such cash flow into Thailand, we (and they) can now forget about such meaningless arguments as whether or not your "income" is gross or net (net of what? taxes, alimony payments, child payments, insurance allotments, gambling debts, etal). It's, pure and simple, a 65k positive cash flow, net of all negative cash flows that can't make their way into Thailand. And whether it's from a gov't pension, or a gift from Aunt Martha, should make no difference to Thai Immigration.

 

This is such a simple way to show positive cash flow into Thailand that you might wonder if they are pondering requiring all countries to eventually go the same route (since income letters can never guarantee the availability of that income to reach Thailand).

 

Having said the above, I'm sure some IO will ask someone for some backup proof of the source of their "income" coming into Thailand. Hopefully, that will be the exception....

As I said previously, I cannot see that Immigration will care where the money comes from, or be arsed to check what could be many many papers, bank interests, divis on investments, private rental incomes, as long as I comes into Thailand, your bank can confirm it, and it doesn't all leave Thailand the next day.

[Kalasin Jo]

On 1/15/2019 at 8:17 PM, Pib said:

OP,

 Where you said.... 

....did the immigration officer give any indication he/she was looking for bank coding or description on the banking statement that the transfers were international transfers?

 

SInce I also have Bangkok Bank accounts I know their passbook/statement's use coding/description of FTT (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer)/International Transfer for foreign transfers which makes it abundantly clear the transfers are international. 

 

Just wondering did the immigration officer appear to look for such international coding/description or was just looking for any monthly transfers totaling up to least Bt65K/month.

If you transfer directly from your out of Thailand bank account to BB Thai account perhaps they do, but I transfer by internet banking from my UK bank to BB London branch ( free) then BB London do a transfer in baht with a £10 charge at the exchange rate they offer on the day to my BB Thai account. A service I found on their website. However, this does not show on passbook or internet account print out as international, just as "auto". There is no paper trail either. It's very quick but is it no use for visas and visa extensions? Been doing it for some years and never a problem with the 800/400 k baht in the bank. The IO only paid attention to the balance for the seasoning period, letter from bank confirming balance and an in/ out cash transaction on the day.