My foreign fiancé keeps saying that he is buying me from my parents

[Straight8]

On 1/16/2019 at 2:02 PM, VocalNeal said:

The potential husband has to realize that sin sod is traditional and cultural. Usually it is cash that is laid at the feet of the brides parents and then returned after the ceremony to the couple/bridegroom. To not have it at a village wedding is...well...bad form.

If it has to be used to pay for the rest of the party then it is a waste as it could have been used for better things.

 

And that is fair enough.....but I'd hate to guess - where a farang is concerned - at the percentages where this does not happen and the money is kept by the parents or the groom is emotionally convinced to leave it with the poor parents.

 

Why not, he is falang, he can afford it "mentality".

[Straight8]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I would love to see a poll about what percentage of Farangs married to a Thai girl, paid the Sin Sot.

I bet it is a lot less than half.

It's a bet you'd lose every day of the week.

[cracker1]

Say good bye to this man well before the wedding.

Your life will be hell forever if you choose to live with him for the rest of your life.

[NoshowJones]

Maybe, but none on my Farang friends paid the sin sot, and neither did I.

[NoshowJones]

5 minutes ago, Straight8 said:

It's a bet you'd lose every day of the week.

None of my friends paid the sin sot, and neither did I.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

Maybe, but none on my Farang friends paid the sin sot, and neither did I.

It's not whether you paid it.  It's whether you got it back.  

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I would love to see a poll about what percentage of Farangs married to a Thai girl, paid the Sin Sot.

I bet it is a lot less than half.

I'd say happy Farangs pay it and get it back.  Unhappy (in the end) Farangs don't pay it at all.  Rich Farangs pay it and don't care.  Rich people are happier than poor people, one of the reasons is they don't worry about little things like sin sot. 

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I'd say happy Farangs pay it and get it back.  Unhappy (in the end) Farangs don't pay it at all.  Rich Farangs pay it and don't care.  Rich people are happier than poor people, one of the reasons is they don't worry about little things like sin sot. 

always thought money could not buy happiness .... guess have been wrong all these years

[NoshowJones]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

It's not whether you paid it.  It's whether you got it back.  

Well you can't get it back if you never paid it in the first place.????

[losworld]

You sound like a pretty level headed gal and although he may not agree with the sinsod for 100k he should just go along with it.  Maybe cut some costs from the wedding to make him feel better. 

 

However, he sounds stressed by the fact of marriage and he being a father he has new responsibilities he needs to come to grips with.  You have essentially been the provider and he should not be burning all his cash flying back and forth and allowing you to pay the bills.

 

He needs to get working and help support you or he needs to get packing.

 

 

[ahmed_naji]

This is a sad, my heart is with you, it was supposed for him to take care of you not vice versa or supporting each other, not the other way around.

Currently you pregnant, that is another huge burden, if he can't take care you alone then how would he be able to care both of you?

The only thing I can say to you right now is MAY GOD BE WITH YOU. Please don't abort the pregnancy.  

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

None of my friends paid the sin sot, and neither did I.

Keep in mind there's many farang here in Thailand, in all sorts of different circumstances, who have married a Thai lady.

[marcusarelus]

22 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Well you can't get it back if you never paid it in the first place.????

The point is it's a Thai custom.  If you don't pay it you are seen as a cheapskate by the Thai family.  Getting it back is a matter of trust.  You got married and are out no money.  I got married and am out no money but the family thinks I'm a reputable man. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 1/16/2019 at 2:08 PM, wgdanson said:

In WHERE?  lol . Sorry, but not a single grammar mistake... it's too good.

I'm not sure what your native language is but the OP is certainly not written in mistake-free English. I've just done a quick count and found 17 different grammatical errors (it was a quick scan so there could even be some I've missed.

[RocketDog]

On 1/16/2019 at 2:31 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

 

In subsequent posts the English gets a bit weaker. Coincidence?

 

Also 100k sinsod is a joke. The money is most of the time returned. No educated girl would stick with such a loser especially if her parents paid the bills and sent her through school. That's another troll alarm bell.

 

 

I just don't understand why some people are obsessively preoccupied with spotting trolls. Is there troll exposure award that I'm ignorant of?

 

Look, if you think it's a troll post why not just ignore the post, wallow in your superior skills, and smugly laugh at all the suckers that are honestly responding to another human being. My guess is that even if they have been trolled most responders don't consider it the worst event in their life or maybe even their day. 

 

Wh don't all you Sherlock Holmes wannabes just lighten up and go watch another episode of CSI Miami to sharpen your instincts. That would be a better use of your time and unburden the forum of your irrelevant remarks. 

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I'm not sure what your native language is but the OP is certainly not written in mistake-free English. I've just done a quick count and found 17 different grammatical errors (it was a quick scan so there could even be some I've missed.

I did apologise earlier, I only got O Level English. Sorry. 

 

 

 I have just re-read the OP, and can now see the mistakes to which you refer.

[Henrik Andersen]

On 1/16/2019 at 11:48 AM, hhdoob said:

I am frustrated because every time we talk about this, it always ends up with him nagging me about having to buy me off from my parents, and that we could use "that 100k baht" for something more useful. We will have quite a big wedding with about 200 guests coming. And I have already paid 150k in advance for organizing it. 

Sorry I just feel you not real

but if I am wrong 

You are a stupid lady 

Why big wedding if no money 

My wife never ask me for anything and she didn't want a big wedding, for what feet all village with food stupid 

 

[baansgr]

2 hours ago, Ridler said:

This is 2019, surely paying a dowry; a bride price is outdated and a bit backward. 

Definately and in fact not many Thais do anymore. Where the sin sod comes in is in deepest, darkest issan where they want paying for the mothers milk, dont care two hoots about the young couple having to struggle and of course when its a retired Foreigner....yippee do da dollar signs are in the air

[onlycw]

So sorry - since he seems to be a (...). Sounds like ha has already gotten those 100 k Baht the years. Now he should enjoy the big event and not spoil it for you.

 

OTOH, if this is happening during the pre-honeymoon phase, how may things turn sour when the baby will born and you having to take care of it? 

 

All the best! 

[SOTIRIOS]

...why was this even allowed here...???

 

(A few foreigners have tried to post their ordeals with Thai women...here.....and they have been insulted, scorned and even accused of being scammers....)

 

...go figure....

[Aforek]

Even if I like Thailand, I don't agree with all these stories of money for a wedding 

somewhere I understand the fiancee 

It's a pity that these problems make you unhappy, it's what happens with different cultures ; for a farang, it's really " buying a woman "; I know a Thai guy who loved very much his girlfriend, but the girlfriend's parents fired him because he had not enough money for the sin sot 

[Hank Gunn]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

always thought money could not buy happiness .... guess have been wrong all these years

I think it was David Lee Roth, the singer of Van Halen who once said something like:

 

"Money may not be able to buy you happiness, but it can buy you a big enough yacht to pull up alongside it." ????

[robertson468]

On 1/16/2019 at 12:57 PM, bbi1 said:

Only foreigners who are suckers pay sin sod, and Thai guys. Unless they work out a deal where the Thai girl's parents will pay for the wedding to follow the foreign style where it's traditional for the girl's parents to for pay 100% of the wedding. The guy should say "yes sure I'll pay 100k in sin sod to follow your culture but you need to follow my culture too and your parent's need to pay for 100% of our wedding". That could end up costing many tens of thousands of dollars for the parents for sure.

That's one point of view.  I actually put sin sod on the mat at the wedding, but my in-laws told me that it was only for show and they did not need or want my money, as long as their Daughter was happy and had a good life with me.  Which I am pleased to report after 14 years we have had a wonderful and normal married life; her care for me over the years has been quite outstanding and I consider myself a very lucky man.  Even my family complain that she is too nice to me!

[RocketDog]

To the OP:

I read your post and all the responses. Some were sincere, many were either derisive and/or useless, and a few were sad  attempts at humor. 

I didn't intend to reply but am doing so because I don't think you're a troll and deserve a considered response. I'll try not to repeat what others have said except to summarize or clarify. 

 

Here goes. 

HIM:

I don't think your fiance is a worthless bum, insincere, or immature. I think he's emotionally overwhelmed and the world is moving very fast for him at this point. 

Earning a PhD is a grueling and financially draining task, and late 20's to early 30's is not unusual, especially for technical fields. He may be making a pittance as a stipend or as an associate professor. If he didn't love you he would have bolted for the door when he learned you were pregnant. In reality, a long-term student like he has been has not really had the opportunity to enter the working world and learn much about the social customs in his own country, much less yours.

It is common for westerners to balk at the custom of sin sod, and his jokes about it are probably meant to be lighthearted as he doesn't really grasp the gravity of it in your culture. 

He's embarrassed that you are supporting him, insecure about his ability to earn a good salary with his new degree, unsure of when he will find a good job in today's poor world economy, and most importantly, he loves you and wants to believe that it will all work out when the dust finally settles. A variety of issues are undermining his self confidence about being a good provider for a family and a husband for his wife. Your culture is a mystery to him and that scares him too. He's had no opportunity to earn, invest, or spend larger sums of money, so the numbers flying around the wedding alarm him. 

 

YOU:

You have taken a giant step up for yourself and your family by long, hard work and dedication to your education. You should be proud of yourself, as I'm sure your parents, siblings, villagers, and your fiance are. 

You unquestionably had exposure to a number of western men during your studies and chose the man you did for good reasons known only to yourself. Don't second guess yourself now. 

 

You have the essentials of a meaningful life already secured with an affordable home, a car, and a job as well as some savings apparently. This is a not insignificant achievement by itself. Again, be proud and trust yourself. 

 

Take the time to speak to your parents and help them understand his perspective on the wedding, sin sod, and your shared financial concerns about the future. Of course you won't mention the pregnancy but your discussion will make a lot more sense to your father in a few months and he will be proud of your forward-looking prudence. 

 

Consider downsizing either the wedding ceremony, the reception, the sin sod, or a combiation of all of it. Explain that your fiance has invested heavily in your joint financial future by investing in his advanced degree, but that the payoff is yet to come. 

 

BOTH OF YOU:

The fact that you both share a secondary language may have seduced you in to assuming that you also share a common world view. In fact cultural truths are seldom universal and more often clollquial and arcane to outsiders. I submit that you both have a lot to learn about the values and beliefs that you must learn to share. 

In the end, if your relationship is to be durable you must both become bi-cultural. You are way ahead of your fiance is this area, so be patient with him.

He must learn that your cultural mores are not trivial or insignificant and that he must approach them with respect for them and for his own ignorance regarding them. 

 

It will actually take years for these issues to clarify on both sides but it can be an adventure as much as a trial. 

 

I highly recommend you jointly study carefully the book "Good Medicine for Thailand Fever", written by Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant. 2004

Www.paiboonpublishing.com.

It is written specifically to address the particular issues we have been discussing, from both a Western and a Thai perspective. 

 

FINALLY:

I suspect that you and your fiance are sober, educated, and inciteful folks, more suited than many to face these challenges and succeed. 

 

Trust each other and yourselves. Talk a lot.

Dig deep for understanding and patience, and support each other while you work this out, regardless of the outcome. 

DON'T PANIC. PERSEVERE. 

You've both been individually challenged before and have succeeded. You've got the tools to do it again if you both want it enough. 

Remember that only you and he will be living your future life, not his or your friends or family. How you and he feel about your relationship is ultimately infinitely more important than the opinions of others. 

 

Best of luck, with all sincerity. 

 

 

[Ctkong]

On 1/16/2019 at 1:49 PM, scorecard said:

Well maybe you didn't pay any sin sod, but keep in mind it's very normal in Thailand.

 

My guess is that sin sod happens in 99% of weddings, it's normal, it's standard.

 

Because you didn't pay doesn't mean that's normal. 

Paying Sin sod is a monetary gesture to the lady’s parents that you ,the groom , appreciates all those years of hard work bringing up their daughter properly. Whether the parents accept totally or partially the sin sod is their prerogative. Moreover the amount of sin sod can be large or a token depending upon the finances of the marrying couple as well as the parents. Even the Chinese in Thailand or China also practice this tradition.  

[roo860]

western culture had a form of sin sod.  If you go back to the native American Indians it was normal for the brave to have to give a present or gifts to the parents for their daughter.
 
I think also in England and in Canada, it was normal to give something to the parents a long time ago.
 
The sin sod is an old custom. It has it's roots in the country.  
 
If the op is here I have a couple of questions.
 
Are you getting married because of the child you are carrying or because you love the child you are living with?
 
Second why if he has a Masters degree is he not working while doing his PHd and do you think he will with his attitude be able to find work here.
 
My recommendation to you is that you sit down with your mom and dad.  You tell them everything and make a decision.  It is better now to lose a little face than to lose more and a lot of money when you get tired of looking after 2 babies.
 
For the record,  If I ever have to pay a sin sod then I will, in fact, make the joke that I am buying my wife BUT it will be in jest and it will not be continuous or used in anger.
 

Good idea, give them a tomahawk!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[4MyEgo]

On 1/16/2019 at 3:48 PM, hhdoob said:

My husband-to-be is from Europe in his mid 30s. 

Wow a cheap Charlie from Europe, hmmmm depending where he comes from in Europe, sin sots (Thai name) have been around for generations, Greeks call it prika.

 

You really have to take a step back, cancel the wedding, cancel the relationship, ok so your pregnant, don't know how far into the pregnancy you are, but your mum is wise keeping it from your father, I am not one to encourage abortions, but you have a life ahead of you, and this intending marriage sounds like its already on wobbly grounds, take it from me, you do not want to end up with this professor or his parents as in-laws.

 

If he cannot understand your culture and throws in your face that he is buying you, he is a hypocrite and has no respect for you or your family. He sounds like an only child and his parents have failed in raising him to respect women.

 

Move on for the sake of your future girl, I once wasted 12 years of my life being miserable and having in-laws from hell as I married their little Princes who would always run home to mumma and pappa whenever there was an argument instead of allowing things to defuse and discuss like adults, and would never feel she was wrong, but that's another story, I remarried a lovely Thai girl (12 years now) and never been happier, suffice to say I asked her how much she wanted for a Sin Sot and she said, oh you know about Thai culture, I said a little, her parents were not teachers, just parents living off the land in the village and she said, up to you, her parents received 2/5ths of the Sin Sot, the remainder was to be put in a bank account for her twin boys education as they were 3 when I met her, they are now 15 and she has continued to provide for their education to this day from 3/5ths of the Sin Sot.

 

You have heard the saying run Forest run, it's your life, your happiness, if this guy cannot respect you, let alone support you, your heading down the wrong road and eventually will crash, sorry to say, but you did say help.

 

You have your parents, you sound educated enough to know this is all wrong, you don't deserve this, trust yourself, respect yourself and put yourself first and foremost until you find someone deserving of you, I adore my wife and would do anything for her, that said, she does everything for me, take the loss of 150,000 baht, cancel the wedding and him, and take a big breath, discuss the best options about the baby with your mum and go from there.

 

If there is one thing I have learnt in life is that a dog doesn't change it's spots, no matter how hard you try.

 

Good luck, tough road ahead girl, but you can ride it with the support of your parents and friends, life is too short to be miserable, find someone who can make you laugh, someone who has your interests at heart, someone who respects and adores you for the beautiful being that you are, and live your life. 

[NaDu]

Leave this cheap charlie, find a real man like me, who will not pay anything to your parents but still pay all the expenses, because this is what I call being a man.

 

[khunPer]

On 1/16/2019 at 5:48 AM, hhdoob said:

Please help.

My compliments, you write very well English language.

 

You seem to be falling into the deep cultural gap between modern Westerners and Asian, especially Thai, tradition.

 

In Western countries it’s been a tradition for ages that the father of the bride pays a dowry to the young new married couple, which could be both money and property, and also pays for the wedding party; whilst the younger generation are more into sharing everything, but the tradition with the bride’s father is still kept well alive. It’s “same-same but different”.

 

A modern Western girl or lady don’t want the feeling of being bought, and feel she should offer something in return, so she will often insist on paying her share. She doesn’t want the feeling of selling herself. And Western men in general don’t like the feeling of buying love – a younger man might even feel that he loose face – or buying a girlfriend, or buying a wife; and that works well for both parts, as long as being typical Westerners.

 

In Thaivisa forums we often see posts about similar situations with sin sot, as your fiancé seem to have. Often Western men only accept the sin sot, as there is no way to avoid it, and perhaps they also don’t want to end up in big discussions about it.

 

Yes, from a Thai point-of-view 100k baht in sin sot is very reasonable – I often see more from countryside families – and a wedding party or reception with many guests is also normal. Converted to European money 100k baht is actually a relative small figure; relative, as when one is unemployed an amount in the area of 2,700 euro can seem quite a lot, and that don’t mix well with the feeling of “buying”. Furthermore the money could be spent better than sin sot, and for a big costly party, especially when a new coming is on the way. I fully understand your fiancé; I would have same feelings in a similar situation.

 

A Thai-foreign relationship is a question a balance, and bending, to make it work; I know well from experience. That might be more difficult for your countryside Thai parents to bend, than for the Western family that probably has a wider outlook to the World and other cultures, so your fiancé and his family should bend a bit more in this balance.

 

I don’t know if you and your fiancé know the book “Thailand Fever”, if not, I can warmly recommend it. It’s written in both Thai and English (and a few more foreign) language, and it explains both about the Thai culture, and the Western culture, making understanding of the gap much clearer for both the foreigner, and for the Thai. I wished that book had been around when I began to date Thai girls, as it would have helped me to understand numerous small situations that made me quite irritated, but had I known in advance that, that’s how Thai behavior and culture is, it wouldn’t have been a problem at all. It’s a kind of “must read” foir a successful foreign-Thai relationship. The book also explains about wedding, and the ceremonies, and the money side, also in general, where many Thais see the husband as a family provider, whilst modern Westerners prefer to share.

 

The “money talk” is often an ongoing subject between foreign husband and Thai wife, or boyfriend and girlfriend, and it’s not unusual that Western men feel that the Thai partner “sucks” their money; or feeling like the infamous “walking ATM card”. In my view – and experience – it’s really a question of talking, information, and finding an acceptable balance, or compromise.

 

When your are in Europe together, you might also experience that some, mainly elder, people would look at the Thai as “something” that have been bought; again I understand you fiancé’s feeling that when paying the whole bill it amplifies that impression – Western men don’t like that, might be they feel that they “loose face” – I know it myself from experience, but I was already old enough to be a “buyer”, so mai pen rai.

 

Furthermore I’m also old enough to have been brought up during a time, where it was natural that the man paid the bill, and in general acted as a gentleman, which I was happy for my mum learned me when I many years later read that Thai girls like a man to act like an old-fashioned gentleman. And I’m also that old that I don’t mind that much what other people think in such a situation...????

 

The best “help” I can suggest is, that you have a amicable serious talk about the cultural gap, and find an acceptable balance – the book “Thailand Fever” could be a good helper – where both parts have to bend a bit out of their own cultural background; i.e. the young European man shall accept to get closer to the old-fashioned role as family provider, also now when a family extension is expected, where there might not be same financially support from a Thai government, as from a European; and the young Thai lady need to accept that a modern European man’s mindset is not that much set for being an old-fashioned provider, like it might be expected that a Thai husband is, and the Thai lady therefore need to pay things from her own income or savings, she normally would expect the boyfriend or husband to take care of.

 

A simple clear agreement, or simple rules, that is possible for both parts to live together with.

 

I’m impressed with your efforts to keep the things work in spite of the cultural differences. I have a friend, a young lady in her mid twenties, who saves up sin sot for her countryside mum, as her foreign boyfriend don’t wish to hear anything about “buying her”. She doesn’t mind party or anything else, but her mum shall have the 200k baht sin sot she asks for, just to settle it, as she says that her mum would never understand why she should not have it.

 

I wish you good luck and a happy life together...????

 

Edit: Read more about "Thailand Fever" here.

[KKr]

On 1/16/2019 at 12:41 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Not written by Thai as English is just too good. Sorry, but troll

sorry mate, about time you met some western educated Thai.