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Posted
7 hours ago, elviajero said:

“Half of expats”. LOL.

 

Yet another massive exaggeration from someone overreacting to a small change.

 

In order to live in Thailand you need 800K PLUS whatever money you spend to live on. 

 

You can’t live in Thailand on just 800K. You need other income or cash. Anyone that doesn’t have that can’t afford to retire in Thailand under the current rules. Those that do should have no problem meeting these changes, even if they don’t like them.

 

Give me an example of someone that’s already retired in Thailand that cannot stay because of the changes.

 

Posted
6 hours ago, whitemouse said:

 

Yep, this is serious. Earlier many posted that agents and IOs will be making more money now, I think it's the opposite, if expats needs to show bank statement every 3 months, expat would have to pay a fee to an agent 4 times a year, not once a year as it has been for long time. Paying agent fee4 times every year is not doable, the cost is prohibitive. 

 

This time they really put in the last nail for many, if 78 percent of fully employed Americans in US don't have any savings, and live pay check to pay check, what is the percentage of expats having $25.000 USD sitting in a bank? My guess is less than 10 percent have the 800k THB in a bank here. Even that number may be optimistic. Most people simply don't have savings.

 

As for health care, it is very common in US having to resort to bankruptcy over serious medical issue. What do you think is the chance a 70 year old expat in Thailand can cover private hospital costs here? Very few. 

 

If enforced, I fail to see workaround, agents are no use, like someone said earlier, this will create a new class of people, 70 year old visa runners. But how many are physically fit to do even that?

 

If this stands, it will be exodus, as you said. There is no alternative, some will move to Cambodia and Vietnam, many are not able to.

 

The saddest part of coming exodus is that only the expat leaves Thailand, how many families will be broken up? How many  fathers separated from sons and daughters? Lives damaged for NO GOOD REASON. I'm honest now, I hate this country. It is impossible to love it any longer. 

 

i havnt been fit to move and still arent, but luckily for

me i'm finally responding to a treatment, or so it seem,

so i hope i'll be able to relocate in another year or so.

until then i will pay any price for not having to move

Posted
11 hours ago, elviajero said:

Not really Jack. The recent changes are the first in 5 years.

 

After 24 years of dealing with Thai immigration I know the only certainty is that the rules will certainly change over time.

I also regard the time when Embassy letters became obligatory as a change, when was that? Not even sure whether it was a written rule or just became the norm, but previously any letter confirming income seemed to be acceptable. 

  • Like 2
Posted
1 hour ago, notamember said:

 

If you read that thread, it gives no indication as to why the guy can no longer stay in Thailand or what has changed, for him, as regards to him obtaining his visa extension this year as opposed to last year.

 

The financial requirement for the visa extension hasn't change at all. 65k baht monthly income last year, 65k baht/month this year. 800k baht in a Thai bank account last year, 800k baht in a Thai bank account this year. Only the method of proof has changed, more inconvenient but still equally doable. I can't, for the life of me, understand how someone found it easy to obtain a retirement visa extension last year but finds it impossible this year.

 

For French citizens, there is even less change as they still obtain their embassy income letters, leaving the 65k baht/month income route completely unchanged.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, Spidey said:
1 hour ago, notamember said:

Give me an example of someone that’s already retired in Thailand that cannot stay because of the changes.

 

2 hours ago, notamember said:

 

If you read that thread, it gives no indication as to why the guy can no longer stay in Thailand or what has changed, for him, as regards to him obtaining his visa extension this year as opposed to last year. //

 

I posted the text bellow yesterday.

So it's more as "he doesn't want" (too much hassle) than "he can't stay"... :unsure:

 

20 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

The "90yo expat who has to leave" is from USA

Until now he was using his embassy income letter (affidavit).

He doesn't want to keep money in Thailand

and says that monthly transfer is too much hassle for a 90yo

 

Posted
26 minutes ago, Spidey said:

If you read that thread, it gives no indication as to why the guy can no longer stay in Thailand or what has changed, for him, as regards to him obtaining his visa extension this year as opposed to last year.

 

The financial requirement for the visa extension hasn't change at all. 65k baht monthly income last year, 65k baht/month this year. 800k baht in a Thai bank account last year, 800k baht in a Thai bank account this year. Only the method of proof has changed, more inconvenient but still equally doable. I can't, for the life of me, understand how someone found it easy to obtain a retirement visa extension last year but finds it impossible this year.

 

For French citizens, there is even less change as they still obtain their embassy income letters, leaving the 65k baht/month income route completely unchanged.

Did you miss the requirement that you must leave B400,000 in your account?

  • Like 1
Posted
1 minute ago, Spaniel said:

Did you miss the requirement that you must leave B400,000 in your account?

Nope. As the 800k baht was to prove that you had enough funds to live on for the next 12 months, that particular change flies in the face of that requirement. It appears to be a bit of a nonsense and wouldn't be surprised if it were changed.

 

However, if someone has zero income and is purely relying on the 800k baht to live on as that's all their money in the world, once they've spent that 800k baht on living expenses, what are they going to use to obtain their visa extensions the following year? If someone doesn't have an extra 400k baht to park in a Thai bank account, they're going to struggle anyway.

 

The only people that I see this seriously affecting are those that never did have 800k baht or a decent income and employed a visa agent to circumvent the rules for them, which, ostensibly, appears to be why the rule was changed in the first place.

 

The only other group that I can see affected are Australian and American citizens who can no longer make a false declaration to their embassies, as to the true value of their incomes, which, IMHO was the main reason that the embassy letters were ceased.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I am surprised because you have made so many great posts and contributions here, now you posted this.

I guess if one wants to stay here now, there is a small cost and sacrifice required. 

I do not know where you are getting your loss of funds.  Maybe invest in the money someplace else?

In any event, it is what it is now and if a person likes it here and wants to stay then there is no other choice.

Suck it up, obey and follow the rules , and move on.

Have you not noticed that the rules are not the problem. Trying to confirm what the rules are is the problem. Lack of consistency and uniformity around the country is the problem. Individual offices making up their own rules is the problem.

 

For some who followed more informal rules with the full knowledge and approval of the IOs at all levels, money is possibly the problem.

Edited by rott
  • Like 2
Posted
9 hours ago, whitemouse said:

Yep, this is serious. Earlier many posted that agents and IOs will be making more money now, I think it's the opposite, if expats needs to show bank statement every 3 months, expat would have to pay a fee to an agent 4 times a year, not once a year as it has been for long time. Paying agent fee4 times every year is not doable, the cost is prohibitive. 

Some initial-reports indicate it will change in a similar manner to how immigration cranked-up their side-money on ED extensions (under the guise of a "crackdown on abuse," of course) - so they get paid agent-money 3x per-year, for the extensions - but this is not confirmed.  The agents and their IO partners could definitely make lots more if this is the case.  

 

Per reports, the "extra payments" for ED extensions range from 3K to 5K Baht each.   But these "check your money" periods for retirement would not be "extensions" - so might be cheaper - or not - who knows at this point.

 

9 hours ago, whitemouse said:

The saddest part of coming exodus is that only the expat leaves Thailand, how many families will be broken up? How many  fathers separated from sons and daughters? Lives damaged for NO GOOD REASON. I'm honest now, I hate this country. It is impossible to love it any longer. 

And all the other tens of thousands of Thais who support their lives, families, communities and farms from the jobs financed by retired expat-spending.   A fraction might get a lower-paying job serving the "package tour" tourists - but those pay hand-to-mouth, so not much left to support their families.  They might as well just go back to subsistence-farming, just like the construction-workers did, when the Cambodians and Burmese were imported/hired in their place, at dirt-wages. 

 

But, do not "hate this country" - because it is just a clique of bad people who are making these changes.  The good Thai people have not changed.

  • Like 1
Posted

If you have the Bt800,000 in a bank or in retirement fund in your own country with a surrender value of at least Bt800,000 you do not have to put any money in a Thai bank to get a retirement visa.  Once you get the retirement visa you can do anything you like with money back home in your account.  The visa is good for 2 years.

  • Haha 1
Posted
18 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

And all the other tens of thousands of Thais who support their lives, families, communities and farms from the jobs financed by retired expat-spending.   A fraction might get a lower-paying job serving the "package tour" tourists - but those pay hand-to-mouth, so not much left to support their families.

Well, I doubt VERY STRONGLY that any Thais care as much about any expats, so I would not waste any compassion on them. The majority will replace their missing expats with lighting speed. 

 

We Farang really need to stop being so compassionate with these people. They exploit our gullibility and good nature to our massive detriment. 

Posted

As i have said before ,the main problem for some will be if in an emergancy you need to spend the 400,00 baht ,even if you put it back a few days later ,your stuffed, as you have gone below the required amount ,so you will need to keep far more than 400,000 in your account all year .

  • Like 2
Posted
15 minutes ago, David Walden said:

If you have the Bt800,000 in a bank or in retirement fund in your own country with a surrender value of at least Bt800,000 you do not have to put any money in a Thai bank to get a retirement visa.  Once you get the retirement visa you can do anything you like with money back home in your account.  The visa is good for 2 years.

I dont consider this retirement to have to put yourself through major expensive inconvenient visa horse shit every 2 years....

Posted
4 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

For you guys who believe this 100%, why not find all these bent IOs yourself,

and offer them a tip?

 

it cuts out the middleman agent and could save you 10k or so

Because an IO doing this would probably be paranoid it was a setup, and bust you to cover his backside.  The agent-money system goes through channels high

enough to allow them to openly advertise "no money" extensions all this time (though that policy could change). 

 

Trying to bribe your local IO would be foolhardy, to say the least.  This isn't like a border-post into Mexico, where the guy will hit you up for a dollar "fee" that isn't legit.  These are many-thousand-baht bribes, so are usually handled only through trusted agents.

 

 

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:
12 hours ago, ocddave said:

I'm waiting for them to increase the marriage/retirement amounts (400k/800k), then we can watch the sh**storm really hit the fan.

It would seem the height of bad planning and be deliberate baiting if another change came along soon !

They don't have to raise the official-totals - they are creating the same net-effect on us, by lengthening the seasoning requirements.  They more of your money they can force you not to be able to use, the more money you need to make up the shortfall.

 

4 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

 you were suposed to have the money available in the bank not borrow it for the day, so what's the real issue here about?

Right - you needed 3 months seasoning - not "borrowed for the day".   That was already the case for in-person honest applications.  But, too many people could qualify honestly, so something "had to be done" to change that.

 

4 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

this will only in practice affect those that fiddled the system

Immigration has long-ago set up and run an "alternate fiddling" system, whereby you can "borrow for a day" if you pay them off through their trusted-agents.  It appears that that these changes (plus the cancellation of income-letters) could help them expand that system to become even more lucrative for them (as they did with the ED extension system). 

 

As usual, under the cover of every so-called "crackdown" - it is immigration who are "fiddling the system" - as anyone paying attention can see.  But we can always count on posts like this, effectively running cover for the corrupt, and trying to blame the victims who could qualify legally before, but cannot any more.

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Posted
41 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Nope. As the 800k baht was to prove that you had enough funds to live on for the next 12 months, that particular change flies in the face of that requirement. It appears to be a bit of a nonsense and wouldn't be surprised if it were changed.

 

However, if someone has zero income and is purely relying on the 800k baht to live on as that's all their money in the world, once they've spent that 800k baht on living expenses, what are they going to use to obtain their visa extensions the following year? If someone doesn't have an extra 400k baht to park in a Thai bank account, they're going to struggle anyway.

 

The only people that I see this seriously affecting are those that never did have 800k baht or a decent income and employed a visa agent to circumvent the rules for them, which, ostensibly, appears to be why the rule was changed in the first place.

 

The only other group that I can see affected are Australian and American citizens who can no longer make a false declaration to their embassies, as to the true value of their incomes, which, IMHO was the main reason that the embassy letters were ceased.

Australians never make a declaration to their Embassy to get a Retirement visa. Australians make a statutory declaration (Stat dec) to Thai Immigration that they have the required funds, the Australian Embassy simply just witnessed that it is you and that they saw you sign that declaration.  The Stat dec is really just a letter from you to Thai Immigration the Embassy just signs to say they saw you sware an oath that the information in the letter is true as you have stated  The contents of the stat dec is of no interest to the Australian Embassy in Thailand, you can put anything you like in it they just saw you sign it...this is not the same when you sware to an affidavit. 

   The US affidavits appear to be a confirmation from the Embassy that they have perused your information and they believe that all that information supplied after checking it out is true and provide a letter from the Embassy to Thai Immigration confirming this.  This appears where all the trouble is.

Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, madmen said:

Yep those running to vietnam or PI Are in for a rude shock!
Those running emoji125.png to Cambodia are in for a huge culture shock. Even a free lifetime visa would not change my experiences of that place.. Better to just go home where we have no hassles

No problem AT ALL in the PI.  Stay 3 years at a time as a Tourist, or easy qualifications for the SSRV options with some money in the bank. 

Cambodia, also very easy - pay once a year and never leave the country.  If not old enough to qualify on retirement, maybe you have to buy a "work permit" (just pay cash - no "qualifying").   If they give you a problem the 2nd year, you "only" get 6 months additional stay-time to work something out (i.e. buy a work-permit).

 

Vietnam - not a single case I have read about of border-run out/ins being hassled, provided they did not overstay.

 

All of those countries have similar costs of about 10K Baht/yr, for hassle-free stays - and the PI with more options.

 

Malaysia is tougher, but they "don't really want" Westerners there, either - and will only "tolerate" them, if they come with a pile of money. 

 

The changes in Thailand, which deprive their own citizens of jobs funded by foreign-sourced spending, are not in any way mirrored in Vietnam, Cambodia, or the PI. 

 

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I liked all those places, didn't seem all that different to Thailand IMHO.

Except much easier to stay and spend money in them - since they are not trying to "get the foreigners out," even to the point of hurting countless numbers of their own citizens to do so.

Edited by JackThompson
  • Like 2
Posted
21 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

I dont consider this retirement to have to put yourself through major expensive inconvenient visa horse shit every 2 years....

Can't one go to an adjoining country to apply for a visa without going all the way to your home country? 

Posted

 

6 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The US affidavits appear to be a confirmation from the Embassy that they have perused your information and they believe that all that information supplied after checking it out is true and provide a letter from the Embassy to Thai Immigration confirming this.  This appears where all the trouble is.

No.  Read the disclaimer at the bottom of those US Embassy letters.  It says they know you are who you say you are, and that you swore to the contents under penalty of perjury (a felony federal-offense).

 

I have had Thais read that paragraph to me, when explaining why they would never allow me, or any American, to marry a Thai at their amphoe.

 

Others report having it read to them buy an IO, when they use it to prove money for an extension (Chiang Mai and others).

I can only assume one's sworn-word doesn't have much weight with those officials.  If the official is taking bribe-money on the side as a part of their daily duties, it makes sense that a sworn-affidavit would seem like a joke, from their perspective.

Posted
1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Can't one go to an adjoining country to apply for a visa without going all the way to your home country? 

Nope...Not for a O-A visa...

  • Like 2
Posted
12 minutes ago, David Walden said:

 

   The US affidavits appear to be a confirmation from the Embassy that they have perused your information and they believe that all that information supplied after checking it out is true and provide a letter from the Embassy to Thai Immigration confirming this.  This appears where all the trouble is.

 

No, that's not correct re the former U.S. affidavits. They were much more in the flavor of the applicant making a sworn declaration and the Embassy merely witnessing and certifying the statement itself -- but not the details of the amount being declared.

 

  • Like 1
Posted
15 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The US affidavits appear to be a confirmation from the Embassy that they have perused your information and they believe that all that information supplied after checking it out is true and provide a letter from the Embassy to Thai Immigration confirming this.  This appears where all the trouble is.

Although different in name, the US system appeared to be the same as the Australian system. Swear on oath that you receive xxxx income. No documents, no proof required.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

This is the number one reason I keep on hearing on TVF for not meeting the new requirements ("I don't want to put my money in Thailand!") and the number one reason I don't have much sympathy for them. Why? Because these people have a choice. Now, I have genuine sympathy and sadness for people who just don't have enough money to continue living here. They have no choice. They will have to leave. That's sad. But the people who say they have the money but just don't want to keep it in Thailand because they are "savvy investors" or some other nonsense: they have a choice. If you really do have a life and family and friends here and support businesses, etc, and if leaving Thailand will ruin your life, why on earth would you not simply transfer 800K baht to a Thai bank account and have done with it? You're going to ruin your life here over what? 50K baht in potential lost interest? Listen if your life here isn't worth more to you than 50K in imaginary interest, then it may be time for you to seek greener pastures elsewhere. And time to stop whinging as if the Thai government owes you a living. They never have and they never will. 

Thai interest rates are better than most of the European rates anyway even under the premise that you can't use fixed rate accounts (and the 15% tax paid can be reclaimed up to a limit that would allow 10million baht plus to be saved here effectively tax-free if you have no other taxable income in Thailand). I presume that fixed rate accounts will now be acceptable anyway since the new keep it in the account rules negate the previous apparent reason for disallowing such. Actually of course I presume my logic will not be applied!

 

Brexit showed the fallacy of relying on the 'safer at home' mantra. We Brits who intend staying are 20% poorer for every pound sterling we left in a UK currency bank account over the last two years.

Edited by SantiSuk
Posted
7 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

This is the number one reason I keep on hearing on TVF for not meeting the new requirements ("I don't want to put my money in Thailand!") and the number one reason I don't have much sympathy for them. Why? Because these people have a choice. Now, I have genuine sympathy and sadness for people who just don't have enough money to continue living here. They have no choice. They will have to leave. That's sad. But the people who say they have the money but just don't want to keep it in Thailand because they are "savvy investors" or some other nonsense: they have a choice. If you really do have a life and family and friends here and support businesses, etc, and if leaving Thailand will ruin your life, why on earth would you not simply transfer 800K baht to a Thai bank account and have done with it? You're going to ruin your life here over what? 50K baht in potential lost interest? Listen if your life here isn't worth more to you than 50K in imaginary interest, then it may be time for you to seek greener pastures elsewhere. And time to stop whinging as if the Thai government owes you a living. They never have and they never will. 

I have even less sympathy for them because they could just send the 800k over in 65k baht monthly instalments. No need to keep any money in a Thai bank account. Something that you couldn't do last year. They should be thanking Thai Immigration for removing the need to keep the money in a Thai bank account.

  • Like 2
Posted
11 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Nope...Not for a O-A visa...

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

  • Haha 1
Posted
1 minute ago, SantiSuk said:

 

Brexit showed the fallacy of relying on the 'safer at home' mantra. We Brits who intend staying are 20% poorer for every pound sterling we left in a UK currency bank account over the last two years.

And if Brexit falls through, which the bookies are giving short odds on, the £ will fly up again. 

 

Anyone bringing in 800k baht now at 40 to the £ will be kicking themselves if they could have brought it in at 50 to the £ in a couple of months time.

 

I understand your logic but playing the money markets is always a risky game.

  • Like 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

On first glance it appears to be so.Await others view as have not heard this before

Posted
14 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

Immigration does not issue OA visas. That is an error that has been on that website for many years.

It should state a extension of stay can be applied for at immigration.

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

And if Brexit falls through, which the bookies are giving short odds on, the £ will fly up again. 

 

Anyone bringing in 800k baht now at 40 to the £ will be kicking themselves if they could have brought it in at 50 to the £ in a couple of months time.

 

I understand your logic but playing the money markets is always a risky game.

Brexit won't fall through, we leave on the 29th Mar 2019, 

 

Quote

I understand your logic but playing the money markets is always a risky game.

???????? That's exactly what your advocating the poster should do by suggesting he waits as it could reach 50 in a couple of months, incidentally there's no way in a million years it will be 50 in a few months so anyone listening to your advice will be kicking themselves even more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by alfieconn
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