New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[HHTel]

I guess most posters here are retirees.  These retirees and others tend to talk mostly with other retirees.  It's easy for people to assume that there is a huge majority of western retirees here.  The fact is that retirees make up a very small percentage of western expats here.  Out of the best part of 100,000 brits, for example, only 3,000 were applying for income letters from the British Embassy.  Of course, some were using the 800K route but I doubt whether that even doubled the figure of 3,000 retirees.

Comments are bandied about: "The Thai economy is going to suffer", "There'll be a MASS EXODUS of retirees", "The money required to be deposited enables banks to make huge profits" ..... and so on...

I am retired and although I have to make some adjustment, I will be staying.  We (retirees) are an almost insignificant number compared with expats in general and if we (retirees) all left, then it would hardly be noticed.

 

Get real guys.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

Thailand only wants people here who can perpetuate their existence.I don't see anything wrong with the administration trying to remove people who cannot even deposit a pathetic 400k into a Thai bank account. I wish the UK did that 60 years ago.

 

They are trying to filter out the people who will either leech off of locals or work illegally, or people who have a very small pension income from their home country.

 

I feel sorry for people who have lived here for years on absolute buttons, but they must have known that they couldn't do that forever.

A disingenuous misinterpretation of the rules, current and changed. Do you even know the facts or are you only here to insult people you imagine you are superior to?

 

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, HHTel said:

I guess most posters here are retirees.  These retirees and others tend to talk mostly with other retirees.  It's easy for people to assume that there is a huge majority of western retirees here.  The fact is that retirees make up a very small percentage of western expats here.  Out of the best part of 100,000 brits, for example, only 3,000 were applying for income letters from the British Embassy.  Of course, some were using the 800K route but I doubt whether that even doubled the figure of 3,000 retirees.

Comments are bandied about: "The Thai economy is going to suffer", "There'll be a MASS EXODUS of retirees", "The money required to be deposited enables banks to make huge profits" ..... and so on...

I am retired and although I have to make some adjustment, I will be staying.  We (retirees) are an almost insignificant number compared with expats in general and if we (retirees) all left, then it would hardly be noticed.

 

Get real guys.

Exactly. Only the people who can't afford to stay will need to leave.

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

A disingenuous misinterpretation of the rules, current and changed. Do you even know the facts or are you only here to insult people you imagine you are superior to?

 

Who am I insulting? People who can't or won't put 400k into their Thai bank?

[greeneking]

57 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

Well it is THEIR country so it is their prerogative to set the rules. It is our duty as expats to comply the best we can. It is best if  special consideration be given to those with Thai families who had settled in Thailand for a certain number of years and uprooting is a considerable hardship both financial and social. I hope the authority concerned would at elast look into such families and deal in a case by case basis. Having said that, part of the blame should be placed upon the shoulders of expats for poor planning because the amount of money is still the same .not increased at all just the period of time the money is to be sitting in the bank. 

Those expats with no thai family dependents are in a better position to vote with their feet . 

It is not THEIR country.

Some people with guns do not let them decide anything. They do not allow any prerogative.

Income inequality here does not indicate any balance in decision making. Thais I meet in the villages, my staff and shops are not xenophobic and paranoid.

Foreign people you call expats are under pressure.  Foreign people of Chinese origin are allowed to dominate the system and give back to the Thai nation as little as they can get away with.

What planning do you suggest when the rules are changed regularly by unaccountable fools?

Tomorrow I go to Immigration to tell them my address.

80 times now I tell them I live at this address.

I will do my duty........guess what I think about my duty to comply.

[dontoearth]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I call B.S. No nation that actually wants to attract retired expats is going to copy Thailand. Thailand was already known as having a jerk people around system. Now it's on steroids. I realize Thailand doesn't see this as a competition for our residence. But a number of other countries do. New people -- you've been warned. 

   Thanks a decade ago when I was thinking of early retirement having visited TH most summers and holidays for 30 years, since I worked as a professor had all that glorious time off when the U was closed, Thailand was often 1 or 2 in the retiree ranking websites for living abroad.  It is down in the 20's now and I see falling of the list as these rule changes for retiree visa become more known by the ratings agency.  

    I did enjoy my time in TH.  I am not bitter but I am not jumping thru these hoops.  

    Yes.  I do have the money.  A much poorer relative once said at a family holiday get together, "how did you get all of your money, Uncle Don?"

    I replied," I don't do foolish things with my money and I never have!"

    I was trying to discourage my nephew from saddling up next 2 me to describe an investment or get rich scheme.

    But I repeat that about depositing money in a TH bank.  " I don't do foolish things with my money and I never have!"  And let me add,"I never will!"

    Again I loved my years in thailand around 30 of them staying anywhere from 4 months to a year.  I am not angry or bitter or dissing anyone.  Certainly not dissing TH.  A lovely place I will stay do a 30 day or less vacation in for many years to come. 

    Just expressing the way I do things.

[Jingthing]

Just now, pr9spk said:

Exactly. Only the people who can't afford to stay will need to leave.

Incorrect. You don't understand the rules, do you?
Financial requirements and actual cost of living are NOT the same thing.

Depending on a person's situation, either one can be higher.

For example if you own your housing your costs are lower.

If you're out partying nightly, your costs are higher.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, pr9spk said:

Who am I insulting? People who can't or won't put 400k into their Thai bank?

You clearly don't even know the rules or the changes. Don't bother me until you actually know something. 

[bkkcanuck8]

4 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

Thailand only wants people here who can perpetuate their existence.I don't see anything wrong with the administration trying to remove people who cannot even deposit a pathetic 400k into a Thai bank account. I wish the UK did that 60 years ago.

 

They are trying to filter out the people who will either leech off of locals or work illegally, or people who have a very small pension income from their home country.

For those that have moved here, you have left a country typically that has social assistance etc. and other services when you have emergency situations.  In many cases you have left areas where you have support.  Having money in the bank should be seen as a necessity for anyone insuring themselves against unfortunate events.  I am actually very uncomfortable of having anything less than 2 years of cash on hand as my self-insurance (i.e. equivalent to 2 years of living expenses without emergencies).  Regardless of whether I qualify based on a month to month basis or money in the bank - I will not do any discretionary spending when it falls below that.  For someone retiring after a lifetime of work - retiring to a 3rd country - I would think that 400K would be the least of your worries.

[SteveK]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Incorrect. You don't understand the rules, do you?
Financial requirements and actual cost of living are NOT the same thing.

Depending on a person's situation, either one can be higher.

For example if you own your housing your costs are lower.

If you're out partying nightly, your costs are higher.

You are correct, but they have set arbitrary numbers to decide who can or cannot stay. This is not Sweden where everything is given to you, so it is sensible that they have financial limits and requirements to determine who will or will not be good for the country.

 

They are doing it to protect the interest of Thais, they have no interest in taking care of disabled farangs with under 400k to their name, and I can't blame them!

Edited February 4, 2019 by pr9spk

[Time Traveller]

IT's not the changes they are making I'm worried about. It's the additional changes they will announce next week. Then the changes next month, and changes every month after that. Those of you gloating about people being forced to leave, let me just say, you may have missed being cut this time. But that net is getting closer, and eventually you'll all be pushed out.

 

[Jingthing]

Everyone using the 800K method (legitimately as I have been doing for over a decade) has the 800K deposit seasoned for three months before each annual application. Of course we have the 400K. Now we are being jerked around with an absurdly long seasoning period for the 800K and a total lock down of 400K for the entire year. That's not freedom. Why would people choose to move abroad to have their private banking and spending matters under government review every day of the year? One baht under 400K during the entire year for any reason no matter how good even a medical emergency and you become not only an alien but an ILLEGAL alien. People need to be warned. I'm invested here but if I had known things were going to develop so toxically in this way, I wouldn't have. I will freely admit I knew there were risks like this coming in. I am not crying victim. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

IT's not the changes they are making I'm worried about. It's the additional changes they will announce next week. Then the changes next month, and changes every month after that. Those of you gloating about people being forced to leave, let me just say, you may have missed being cut this time. But that net is getting closer, and eventually you'll all be pushed out.

 

Of course, there is always that. Proven already jerking expats around. Surely more can come at any time. Again, prospective expats need to be warned. You don't want this in your life growing older. 

[SteveK]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Of course, there is always that. Proven already jerking expats around. Surely more can come at any time. Again, prospective expats need to be warned. You don't want this in your life growing older. 

This is precisely why just meeting the basic requirements is sailing too close to wind. Most ex-pats from western countries, particularly anyone who has sold property should have no problem in depositing a million or even more.

 

400-800k for now, but in ten years could be a LOT more. Make sure you have money put aside to cover it.

 

1 million baht is still only £25k, about 10% the cost of a family home in the UK.

 

And the Thai authorities are saying if you can't even produce such a small proportion of the price of a house in your home country, then what are you doing here? I don't blame them.

Edited February 4, 2019 by pr9spk

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

This is precisely why just meeting the basic requirements is sailing too close to wind. Most ex-pats from western countries, particularly anyone who has sold property should have no problem in depositing a million or even more.

 

400-800k for now, but in ten years could be a LOT more. Make sure you have money put aside to cover it.

Now we get the Ayn Rand lectures. So predictable. So nauseating. How do you know I don't have it or others don't have it? Don't you get how toxic this is, to have our bank accounts monitored all year so going under even ONE baht and we become illegal, even if having lived here for 20 years? 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Now we get the Ayn Rand lectures. So predictable. So nauseating. How do you know I don't have it or others don't have it? Don't you get how toxic this is, to have our bank accounts monitored all year so going under even ONE baht and we become illegal, even if having lived here for 20 years? 

That's Thailand mate. If you don't like it you can always go back.

[Jingthing]

Just now, pr9spk said:

That's Thailand mate. If you don't like it you can always go back.

When in doubt, go for the love it or leave it cliché.

 

[SteveK]

People come to Thailand because it is so different to their shithole countries. And then complain that they do things differently. That is moronic in the extreme.

 

Do what they ask or go somewhere else, it's not rocket science.

 

Or just complain about it on internet forums.

Edited February 4, 2019 by pr9spk

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

People come to Thailand because it is so different to their shithole countries. And then complain that they do things differently. That is moronic in the extreme.

 

Do what they ask or go somewhere else, it's not rocket science.

 

Or just complain about on internet forums.

For many of us that have lived here a long time, it's just not that easy, not that black and white. I would say use your imagination on the many ways why that might be so, but that might be overly optimistic of your capabilities. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[SteveK]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

For many of us that have lived here a long time, it's just not that easy, not that black and white. I would say use your imagination on the many ways why that might be so, but that might be overly optimistic of your capabilities. 

You mean many people that have lived here on a shoestring budget for years or decades, and then need to show that they have a small amount of money in the bank? I feel for those people, indeed I do, but maybe this is the wake-up call they need that you can't live on pennies for the rest of your life and need to make a change. Money talks in Thailand more than any country and if you don't have it you're going to be in trouble.

 

I feel very strongly for people who moved here thinking they would be fine and then the changes in the rules made them persona non grata, but we are still talking about small amounts of money.

Edited February 4, 2019 by pr9spk

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

You mean many people that have lived here on a shoestring budget for years or decades, and then need to show that they have a small amount of money in the bank? I feel for those people, indeed I do, but maybe this is the wake-up call they need that you can't live on pennies for the rest of your life and need to make a change. Money talks in Thailand more than any country and if you don't have it you're going to be in trouble.

No, that's not what I meant. But like I suspected, you lack imagination and I can't help you with that. 
Cheers. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No, that's not what I meant. But like I suspected, you lack imagination and I can't help you with that. 

Yes, I am a moron and you are a genius. Maybe you can use your superior imagination to imagine a far-flung country that wants you to live there without any kind of funds in the bank?

Edited February 4, 2019 by pr9spk

[Jingthing]

Just now, pr9spk said:

Yes, I am a moron and you are a genius.

Au contraire, my dude. Clearly I'm the moron for thinking there was any point in further engagement with you on these matters. 

[bkkcanuck8]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Au contraire, my dude. Clearly I'm the moron for thinking there was any point in further engagement with you on these matters. 

Well then can I just agree with both of you ????

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Au contraire, my dude. Clearly I'm the moron for thinking there was any point in further engagement with you on these matters. 

Don't talk then. If you don't have any money Thailand will be better off without you.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

Don't talk then. If you don't have any money Thailand will be better off without you.

Yeah I don't have any money. That's the ticket. I just told you I've been using the 800K method for many years. 

I would however prefer to be free to SPEND it as I choose during the year and then TOP IT UP as I've been doing every year. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah I don't have any money. That's the ticket. I just told you I've been using the 800K method for many years. 

In any case, Thailand and these forums would be better off without you.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, pr9spk said:

In any case, Thailand and these forums would be better off without you.

Bingo. As I suspected you're not really interested or informed about visa issues. 

[Luckysilk]

20 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

People come to Thailand because it is so different to their shithole countries. And then complain that they do things differently. That is moronic in the extreme.

 

Do what they ask or go somewhere else, it's not rocket science.

 

Or just complain about it on internet forums.

They don't have the money, it's as basic as that, every excuse in the book in these threads why they don't want to bring money into a country that has been home for years. 400k/800k is nothing so I'm not buying the excuses.

 

Thailand is better off without them IMO & the good news is the next batch of fools will know the rules and hopefully not complain nonstop. 

[SteveK]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Bingo. As I suspected you're not really interested or informed about visa issues. 

And you are? Bingo.