Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.

[STALINGRAD]

So a German and a Brit both receiving 3000 euro a month in pension go for retirement renewal.The German has an income letter from the embassy, the brit an income letter from the pension office.Thai immigration stamps the German without a euro being transferred to a thai bank?and the Brit has to deposit 800k in a Thai bank or make monthly transfers combined with a large balance in a Thai bank.In the past an income letter was not tied to deposits to an in country bank,still true?

[Kenny202]

50 minutes ago, skatewash said:

You're right that would be the way to go... which is exactly why I think that's not allowed.  You couldn't just simply pop the lump sum balance into the bank for the last 3 months.  You would have to have that balance in the account the whole year.  Otherwise, what you're effectively doing is a more favorable lump-sum method without the nasty minimum balance requirements of that method and you're instead doing a nominal monthly transfer just to be able to use the more liberal rules of the combo method.

 

 

Again I got to be missing something.....

Which leads me back to my original question...does the lump sump component of the combo method need to be in the bank for the full 12 months prior to your application or 3 months.

 

Tanoshi stated this before...

Seasoning still required same as funds deposited in the bank method.

Whatever amount of funds you decide on, it should be deposited 3 months before the application, unless it's your first retirement extension application, then it's only 2 months.

12 months is annual, 11 months is not.

 

Sorry, not trying to score points here just get clarity

 

[wobalt]

So if you are on a marriage extension you are not allowed to work in Thailand anymore??


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[brokenbone]

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

OK thanks, so your from one the nationalities who can still obtain a letter of income from their Embassy?

yes

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, overherebc said:

OK.

When I draw it out as a table I see it. ????

Does this fit for first application and leading to second.

Why do you need 800,000 for 3 months before the next application (Oct, Nov, Dec) when the order clearly states 2 months?

[Moonlover]

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

11 hours ago, keemapoot said:

The good thing is that now all using transferwise should be able to have their banks prove up that that the transfers came from abroad.

 

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Where do you get that from?

 

If your bank was the bank that TW used for the transaction then yes, it should show as coming from abroad in your statement. But if TW used another bank, that bank will have made a domestic transfer to your bank and the only information your bank will have, as far as I know, is that a domestic transfer came from Bank X in Thailand.

 

Now, Bank X would have a record of the incoming transfer from abroad, so one recourse would be to try to get a statement from them and show that together with your own bank statement. And maybe have the paperwork from Transferwise as well for backup.

Well, with respect Sheryl, Tanoshi did mention TransferWise way back in his post on page 2, #20 which I reproduce below:

 

''They even showed me examples of local bank statements, then the same statement from HQ, which gave precise details of the overseas source of income, sometimes with pension providers names where they were paid directly into their Thai bank account, others as Foreign TT transfers (Transferwise as an example) and government state pensions paid direct through the bank of Thailand, which clearly state a Bahtnet deposit''.

 

Perhaps he come back and reconfirm that. Was TransferWise specifically referred to by TI O/P?

 

I am saving all my T/W transaction slips, so I shall be able to prove to the bank or TI that they are authentic foreign deposits, if they are challenged.

 

Many thanks to Tanoshi for his efforts. I think I can sense a collective 'sign of relief in Thailand today'. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Moonlover

[keemapoot]

5 hours ago, wobalt said:

So if you are on a marriage extension you are not allowed to work in Thailand anymore??


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A marriage extension specifically allows you to work. However, you bring up an interesting point. If you are on a marriage extension using monthly income from abroad which you represent to be retirement income, would it cause the labor department to re-think this policy? I think not. I think this has no effect on ability to get a work permit because the labor department has no visibility into your visa qualifications I believe.

[overherebc]

31 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Why do you need 800,000 for 3 months before the next application (Oct, Nov, Dec) when the order clearly states 2 months?

Same as the old system. First time 2 months prior to application all following applications 3 months.

[jacko45k]

Just now, overherebc said:

Same as the old system. First time 2 months prior to application all following applications 3 months.

Well actually it isn't but hey, no harm having it the extra month, some offices maybe didn't get the memo and they sure won't be told!

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Well actually it isn't but hey, no harm having it the extra month, some offices maybe didn't get the memo and they sure won't be told!

Read the OP carefully at 2.22.

Edited February 12, 2019 by overherebc

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Read the OP carefully.

And completely ignore what the translation of order 35/2561 (Date:  30 January 2019) actually says? What a fiasco!

[doctormann]

Just an observation on International Transfer codes.

This relates specifically to TMB.

 

International transfers (deposits) send via SWIFT from Barclays UK to my TMB Savings Account show the following codes:

 

In the passbook the code is NT, which is simply listed as 'Transfer' with no indication that it is international.

The code shown on on-line statements is EXIM which, I believe, relates to transfers via the Thailand Export/Import bank.  It should be obvious that this is an international transfer but what would an IO make of it, I wonder?

 

There seems little point in regularly updating the passbook if it doesn't show international codes.  I normally update very infrequently as there is no TMB branch close by.  Some individual transfers do appear - with NT code - but mainly I just see an SC (Summary Credit) code.

 

Any comments?

[phuketrichard]

question:
I have already decided that I will do the 800,000 for my next renewal ( due July) I have also decided to leave after this next year> Before my 2nd extension s due (say end of June 2020)
Can i take out most of my baht from the bank ?
Will i have any hassles if i need go to immigration during that year? ( say i need a re entry permit and on return file a TM 30)
Will immigration EVER during the year ask to see my bank book?

 

Thanks

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

question:
I have already decided that I will do the 800,000 for my next renewal ( due July) I have also decided to leave after this next year> Before my 2nd extension s due (say end of June 2020)
Can i take out most of my baht from the bank ?
Will i have any hassles if i need go to immigration during that year? ( say i need a re entry permit and on return file a TM 30)
Will immigration EVER during the year ask to see my bank book?

 

Thanks

If you aren't due to do the Extension until July we are likely to have a better idea by then how regional offices are policing the new requirements if indeed they do at all during the current extension term. Most seem to think it will all be well checked at the time of a subsequent extension application.

Sentiment seems to support that you will not have reason for concern.

Edited February 12, 2019 by jacko45k

[wobalt]

A marriage extension specifically allows you to work. However, you bring up an interesting point. If you are on a marriage extension using monthly income from abroad which you represent to be retirement income, would it cause the labor department to re-think this policy? I think not. I think this has no effect on ability to get a work permit because the labor department has no visibility into your visa qualifications I believe.

The problem is That the money must come from abroad not from your income ex Thailand


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[overherebc]

7 hours ago, wobalt said:

So if you are on a marriage extension you are not allowed to work in Thailand anymore??


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Yes you can work. Tax returns showing salary earned/tax paid etc will be accepted.

[Monomial]

11 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Where do you get that from?

 

If your bank was the bank that TW used for the transaction then yes, it should show as coming from abroad in your statement. But if TW used another bank, that bank will have made a domestic transfer to your bank and the only information your bank will have, as far as I know, is that a domestic transfer came from Bank X in Thailand.

 

Now, Bank X would have a record of the incoming transfer from abroad, so one recourse would be to try to get a statement from them and show that together with your own bank statement. And maybe have the paperwork from Transferwise as well for backup.

 

Sheryl,

 

If what you are saying were true, then your bank likely would be guilty of money laundering. If you go to your bank, and ask for a credit advice for a transfer, it must show the original, beneficiary from where it originated. What they put in your bank book or on a statement is irrelevant. That is their own internal accounting system. It may very well be domestic from their perspective. But a credit advice will ALWAYS show the actual account it originated from.

 

If your bank doesn't have that information, they would likely get in big trouble from AMLO.

 

The key is to get your statement, mark the specific transactions you want, and then ask for a "credit advice" from your bank on each specific transaction. If it originated overseas, it will show up on the credit advice no matter how it was routed.

 

 

[keemapoot]

9 minutes ago, wobalt said:

The problem is That the money must come from abroad not from your income ex Thailand


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Yes, true for the visa, but I think the presumption is that even if you are "retired" from work abroad, with a marriage visa in Thailand you can still work and obtain a work permit.

 

Of course you can always also opt to renew your marriage extension to stay using the Thai income but in that case you are better off renewing using a non-B extension because the marriage extension is more trouble.

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, Monomial said:

The key is to get your statement, mark the specific transactions you want, and then ask for a "credit advice" from your bank on each specific transaction. If it originated overseas, it will show up on the credit advice no matter how it was routed.

Then what do you do with your "credit advice" documents?  Is the assumption that immigration will accept them?  They might, but I would not count on it.  Whether you "really do qualify" is not the point of their exercise - it is to find a technicality on which to deny the application.

[overherebc]

13 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

✔️

 

✔️

Question on that one.

Wouldn't you have to conform to the conditions for the first extension throught that year meaning retain the 800,000 for the first three months etc.

Only on 2nd application and approval based on income could you remove the 800,000?

Edit.

As yet I'm still not clear on the way they will check the retention of the 800,000 after 3 months etc unless at 90 day reporting.

If you travel a lot you can spend a long time never having to do 90 day reports.

Edited February 12, 2019 by overherebc

[Thaidream]

36 minutes ago, doctormann said:

here seems little point in regularly updating the passbook if it doesn't show international codes.  I normally update very infrequently as there is no TMB branch close by.  Some individual transfers do appear - with NT code - but mainly I just see an SC (Summary Credit) code.

 

Any comments?

IMO- since most banks use different codes for the same reason- it will be  impossible for each IO to be aware of what each code means and take the time to verify each code.  In other words- an IO looking at a bank statement/bank book will be looking for the amount each month- 65K/49K and the dates and making sure there is a deposit each month.  The coding will become insignificant and the verification of how the money got into your account  inconsequential.  Otherwise- it becomes too time consuming for the IO,

 

While Region 4- appears to have it's act together- I am hoping the same sanity extends to other regions.

 

Thanks to Tanoshi for taking the time to talk to the right people and then letting the rest of us know.  Well done-Sir!!

[sumrit]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Then what do you do with your "credit advice" documents?  Is the assumption that immigration will accept them?  They might, but I would not count on it.  Whether you "really do qualify" is not the point of their exercise - it is to find a technicality on which to deny the application.

If the BKKB are required to supply all the documentation to satisfy Immigration as to my income qualifications then a Credit Advice Receipt from the same bank relating to the same requirements is all part of the required BKKB documentation. 

 

I know you like to tell people to 'use an agent' Jack but you're scraping the barrel to try and suggest Immigration would reject (some of) the documents the bank supplies that relate to the same request.

[phuketrichard]

FYI;  SCB shows this for foreign transfer

X1   FRCI,   just made one this week

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, sumrit said:

If the BKKB are required to supply all the documentation to satisfy Immigration as to my income qualifications then a Credit Advice Receipt from the same bank relating to the same requirements is all part of the required BKKB documentation. 

 

I know you like to tell people to 'use an agent' Jack but you're scraping the barrel to try and suggest Immigration would reject (some of) the documents the bank supplies that relate to the same request.

I do not suggest you should use an agent - nor do I support their use.  I have said that it appears agent-use is what immigration is trying to encourage - which is a very different thing.  I avoided using an agent in my case (use a Visa from a consulate, instead), and I encourage others to also deny immigration a stream of corruption-money by any means at their disposal.

 

In the case we are discussing here, the solution is to use an transfer-method that appears in ones bank-book / statements as international by default.  That way, immigration cannot block your legit-extension on a technicality.  This may require using a more expensive transfer method and/or using a Thai-bank which can accept SWIFT transfers directly, rather than through an intermediate Thai-bank.

[MikeN]

30 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Question on that one.

Wouldn't you have to conform to the conditions for the first extension throught that year meaning retain the 800,000 for the first three months etc.

Only on 2nd application and approval based on income could you remove the 800,000?

Edit.

As yet I'm still not clear on the way they will check the retention of the 800,000 after 3 months etc unless at 90 day reporting.

If you travel a lot you can spend a long time never having to do 90 day reports.

You can also do your 90 day online where they would never see you, so I doubt they will actually be checking until you do your next extension. If they see you did not abide by the conditions of your visa, ie you did not keep the minimum amount in the bank, then they have grounds for not giving you an extension.

 When I do my next extension in May I am expecting them to give me yet another form to sign, acknowledging that I have to obey the new rules.

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, MikeN said:

You can also do your 90 day online where they would never see you, so I doubt they will actually be checking until you do your next extension. If they see you did not abide by the conditions of your visa, ie you did not keep the minimum amount in the bank, then they have grounds for not giving you an extension.

 When I do my next extension in May I am expecting them to give me yet another form to sign, acknowledging that I have to obey the new rules.

Agree.

[ThaiPauly]

So could I put 800k in a high interest account and forget about it.

 

I have money in high interest accounts now, but as I have done in the past I can access the funds immediatley, I just loose the extra interest, say it pays 1.5% they would only give me 0.5%, but I can access it in the same way I could my savings account?

 

Thanks in advance

[wobalt]

So a German and a Brit both receiving 3000 euro a month in pension go for retirement renewal.The German has an income letter from the embassy, the brit an income letter from the pension office.Thai immigration stamps the German without a euro being transferred to a thai bank?and the Brit has to deposit 800k in a Thai bank or make monthly transfers combined with a large balance in a Thai bank.In the past an income letter was not tied to deposits to an in country bank,still true?

This why your embassy f..cked you up.


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[theoldgit]

12 hours ago, STALINGRAD said:

So a German and a Brit both receiving 3000 euro a month in pension go for retirement renewal.The German has an income letter from the embassy, the brit an income letter from the pension office.Thai immigration stamps the German without a euro being transferred to a thai bank?and the Brit has to deposit 800k in a Thai bank or make monthly transfers combined with a large balance in a Thai bank.In the past an income letter was not tied to deposits to an in country bank,still true?

As a Brit I used to obtain a letter from my Embassy, operated by the FCO, that my Civil Service Pension, paid by another Government department, was of a certain level.
Now that the FCO isn't able, or unwilling, to verify my pension from another Government department, I have to use another method to extend my stay here, as evidence from my pension provider isn't deemed adequate.
To be fair I think it would be unreasonable to expect Thai IO's to have to trawl through various pension statements in a mulitude of languages, nor do I expect the UK Embassy to make an exception in my case just because I worked for HMG for almost forty years.

[Tanoshi]

7 hours ago, brokenbone said:

yes

Sent a PM.