Separated for 10 years, can GF’s husband claim on property she bought while separated ?

[MikeN]

My GF is still legally married to another foreigner, although they have been separated for at least 10 years when he went back home, vowing never to return to Thailand apparently. Her marital status has never worried me, but a year ago she did ask for a divorce which he refused. That was about the only contact (via Messenger) that they have had for years. Now she has just found out through a Facebook contact that he is back here.

 As I understand it any property acquired during marriage is split 50/50 ? Does that include anything bought with her money after the separation ? She has bought two blocks of land that we were planning to build on sometime. Would he have any claim on this land if they were to get a divorce ? I know he cannot own the land, but I would hate to see the guy take half the value in cash. I don’t know what he is worth in terms of assets here, probably not much so she would not be getting much from him.

 I did think of suggesting to the GF that she transfer the land into her sister’s name until she gets a divorce, but if he wants to be an <deleted> that could be years.

 I would certainly want to get it sorted before we start thinking seriously about a house on the land. I have told her to see a lawyer but she seems to think there is nothing to worry about ....mai pen rai  No dear, this is serious !

Edited February 28, 2019 by MikeN

[Mavideol]

she was separated by legally married, thus better get legal advise to avoid unnecessary trouble, maybe the guy still has the hots for her, jealousy is a dangerous game. Each town has a small legal advise that is assigned by the government, their job is to assist local not wealthy people with these type of matters, the local amphoe knows where they are

[CharlieH]

You also need to ascertain if they married just here (Thailand) or married in his home country aswell ? because if they were legally married in another country, that may well have implications too.

 

You are absolutely right to get proper legal advice before proceeding further with any commitment.

[MikeN]

@CharlieH ....No, only married here.

 

@Mavideol I hate to admit it, but at the back of my mind I do wonder if he has somehow heard that she has land and somebody to build her a house, and now he sees a chance to make a few baht out of it.

 Som (The GF ) tells me he is a scumbag who only married her for the visa, but as a “woman scorned” she may not be completely objective about him.

 

 Som did not ask what visa he is on here now, it cannot be a marriage visa ( that would have needed her cooperation) so hopefully he is on a retirement visa and if he wants to play dirty at least she can take half his 800,000 and stuff up his visa extension next time !

Edited February 28, 2019 by MikeN

[blackcab]

She doesn't need his permission to divorce him as they have been separated for over 3 years. She will need to go Court to get it sorted, but that need not be expensive as it's a very simple case.

 

I would suggest that she absolutely does not message her husband to tell him about the divorce either before, during or after the proceedings.

 

Your partner does not even need to transfer the land to make it worthless to her husband. She can grant her sister (or anyone else) a usufruct for life. This will have the practical effect of making the land worthless and almost unsalable (assuming her sister is not aged or very ill).

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

she was separated by legally married, thus better get legal advise to avoid unnecessary trouble, maybe the guy still has the hots for her, jealousy is a dangerous game. Each town has a small legal advise that is assigned by the government, their job is to assist local not wealthy people with these type of matters, the local amphoe knows where they are

The Damroeng Centre, yes in all cities and bigger towns. And they have a good professional balanced reputation.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, blackcab said:

She doesn't need his permission to divorce him as they have been separated for over 3 years. She will need to go Court to get it sorted, but that need not be expensive as it's a very simple case.

 

I would suggest that she absolutely does not message her husband to tell him about the divorce either before, during or after the proceedings.

 

Your partner does not even need to transfer the land to make it worthless to her husband. She can grant her sister (or anyone else) a usufruct for life. This will have the practical effect of making the land worthless and almost unsalable (assuming her sister is not aged or very ill).

Where divorce is mutually agreed the divorce can be processed, very simple / quick, at the local amphur office, very small fee.

 

Given the length of the separation, meaning that by Thai law she doesn't need his agreement to divorce, could she not get the divorce at the local amphur office?

 

Just asking?

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, MikeN said:

Her marital status has never worried me,

You shouldn't be sleeping with another man's wife, end of.

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Where divorce is mutually agreed the divorce can be processed, very simple / quick, at the local amphur office, very small fee.

 

Given the length of the separation, meaning that by Thai law she doesn't need his agreement to divorce, could she not get the divorce at the local amphur office?

 

Just asking?

 

 

Yes, she was under that impression but the amphur office told her she would have to go to court as he was not willing to have an uncontested divorce. He was at home in Europe at that time.

 Hopefully now he is back here he may change his mind and just sign the papers.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Given the length of the separation, meaning that by Thai law she doesn't need his agreement to divorce, could she not get the divorce at the local amphur office?

 

The key point is that she needs her husband's consent to divorce at the District Office, which from the sound of it, she won't receive. The length of the separation makes no difference. Without consent, there can be no District Office divorce.

 

To divorce without consent she will need to go to Court to dissolve the marriage. She will need a lawful reason, of which she has the choice of two grounds:

 

Section 1516 of the Civil and Commercial Code, Section 4 allows for dissolution where one spouse has deserted the other for more than 1 year.

 

Section 1516 of the Civil and Commercial Code, Section 4/2 allow for dissolution where the husband and wife voluntarily agree to live separately for 3 years or more.

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You shouldn't be sleeping with another man's wife, end of.

Who said we were living, or sleeping, together ?

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

 

Your wife does not even need to transfer the land to make it worthless to her husband. She can grant her sister (or anyone else) a usufruct for life. This will have the practical effect of making the land worthless and almost unsalable (assuming her sister is not aged or very ill).

Well in that case, would a usufruct to me be as good ? We have touched on the subject when talking about a future house, I was ambivalent about it as if things between us went downhill I wouldn’t want to stay there anyway but if it helps to keep his hands off it then it might be worthwhile.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, MikeN said:

Well in that case, would a usufruct to me be as good ?

 

Yes. It would give you the sole right to use the land and the structures on the land until you die.

 

The life usufruct needs to be correctly registered on the land title deed by the Land Office. Before you start you should check that the Land Office in question will register a life usufruct for a Non-Thai person. Some offices won't, and while you could force the issue you might not want the grief.

 

The land owner can sell the land,  but the purchaser is legally obligated to continue the usufruct. Obviously, not many people would pay the going rate to purchase land they can do nothing with at all - unless, perhaps, you were 95 years old or gravely ill with a terminal disease, etc.

 

Should you wish to, you can consent to terminating the usufruct before your demise.

[Mavideol]

14 hours ago, MikeN said:

@CharlieH ....No, only married here.

 

@Mavideol I hate to admit it, but at the back of my mind I do wonder if he has somehow heard that she has land and somebody to build her a house, and now he sees a chance to make a few baht out of it.

 Som (The GF ) tells me he is a scumbag who only married her for the visa, but as a “woman scorned” she may not be completely objective about him.

 

 Som did not ask what visa he is on here now, it cannot be a marriage visa ( that would have needed her cooperation) so hopefully he is on a retirement visa and if he wants to play dirty at least she can take half his 800,000 and stuff up his visa extension next time !

scumbags will find ways to the visa loopholes ..... is she telling you ALL the truth? what does you head (top not bottom) tells you to do

[GalaxyMan]

On 2/28/2019 at 7:49 PM, blackcab said:

She doesn't need his permission to divorce him as they have been separated for over 3 years. She will need to go Court to get it sorted, but that need not be expensive as it's a very simple case.

 

I would suggest that she absolutely does not message her husband to tell him about the divorce either before, during or after the proceedings.

 

Your partner does not even need to transfer the land to make it worthless to her husband. She can grant her sister (or anyone else) a usufruct for life. This will have the practical effect of making the land worthless and almost unsalable (assuming her sister is not aged or very ill).

Totally correct. I'm dealing with an almost identical situation. G/F has a court date on the 18th to get her divorce finalized.
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1077045-thai-woman-abandoned-by-thai-husband/

 

[shy coconut]

On 2/28/2019 at 12:57 PM, BritManToo said:

You shouldn't be sleeping with another man's wife, end of.

This is either sarcasm, or you have very flexible morals.

[robblok]

On 2/28/2019 at 7:57 PM, BritManToo said:

You shouldn't be sleeping with another man's wife, end of.

I know that you often use ladies of the night.. are you so sure your not doing the same ????

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

I know that you often use ladies of the night.. are you so sure your not doing the same ????

If they told me they were married, or if I found out, I wouldn't use their services again.

(I had a few taking incoming calls from what appeared to be a 'spouse' while on me.)

 

That's about the best any of us can do.

Edited March 4, 2019 by BritManToo

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If they told me they were married, or if I found out, I wouldn't use their services again.

(I had a few taking incoming calls from what appeared to be a 'spouse' while on me.)

 

That's about the best any of us can do.

What about if their husbands didnt mind them being prostitutes and they were happy with the money that got paid , would you then go back for another go ?

[Nanaplaza666]

On 2/28/2019 at 7:57 PM, BritManToo said:

You shouldn't be sleeping with another man's wife, end of.

Their seperated for 10 years already, and only still maried because he doesn't want to sign the papers or get a divorce .whats your point good semaritan 

[Accidental Tourist]

Words, words, words... Just get a lawyer and proceed with the divorce; should not be so difficult, but might take up to 1 year before legal. Let the lawyer communicate with the husband.

[Captain 776]

Granted everyone here........well mostly all are trying to help you.

 

Shoot your question to Siam Legal and get an answer from a Thai lawyer.

over the years I have gone to their website and asked question probably 3 times and they answered, no charge.

 

The answer wasnt ......come in and see us, they provided an answer.

 

Give it a try

[SOTIRIOS]

...you don't mention how long you have been together....

 

...nor why you believe any information/details she has 'offered up'....

 

....good intentions.......bad outcomes......the majority of the times, it seems......

 

...when 'we' don't have a legal foothold....and the whole local population knows it.....

 

...it's hard to get an accurate account of any situation...let alone a 'fair shake'.....

 

...good luck....

[khunPer]

On 2/28/2019 at 12:21 PM, MikeN said:

I would certainly want to get it sorted before we start thinking seriously about a house on the land. I have told her to see a lawyer but she seems to think there is nothing to worry about ....mai pen rai  No dear, this is serious !

Quoted from the book "Thai Law For Foreigners" written by two Thai lawyers, in chapter about Last Will, page 80:

Quote

Legally married spouses who are separated still have rights to the assets.

I however cannot find anything about separation and rights in the section about divorce, only "Grounds For Divorce".

 

As others have mentioned, you should check with a lawyer.

[dieter1]

I give the (unwanted) advice to get in contact with the husband. And learn to know, how he describes his experience with your girlfriend.

It always gives me a bad feeling when I read about a farlang, having a new affair with a Thai girl and believing everything this girl is telling about her former relationships.

The former partner can be a very good source of information of how this woman performs in a relationship. You never be forced to believe everything what he will tell you. But avoiding his opinion about your girlfriend seems more like you dont want to be confronted  with reality. not a good strategy. I just had this kind of experience with someone. I was trying to warn him but he was totally denying the opportunity of listening .

I have a friend, who was lucky to meet a former "lover" of his partner. After listening to him it was crystal clear for him, that his girlfriend was lying all the time and was having affairs all the time. His rosy bubble got destroyed within seconds and he finished the relationship at once . He later spoke to his neighbours and when they got to know that the relationship was finished, they told him much more about what his girlfriend was doing behind his back .

 

Just to "invest" big money in a relationship , where the woman is still married to another man is not a good idea.

To  pay for building a house that will be owned by a girlfriend (!) is also very questionable. Who would do that in your home-country ? How long do you know this woman ?

 

again an again all these strange stories.... 

[MikeN]

^ Given the circumstances and the apparent ill feeling between them, i doubt that his opinion would be 100% unbiased or correct.

It always gives me a bad feeling when I read a farlang giving opinions based on his preconceived ideas and extrapolating them onto everybody else.

Not every Thai woman is a scheming money grabber, no more so than a woman anywhere else.

but for your info, I have known her for nearly 20 years, long before she married him, as she is the sister in law of a good friend of mine. We dated on and off when I was here on holiday (before she married him) and got back in touch after I moved here, so i am certainly not rushing into things.

I have not invested any "big money" in her, nor in her land or house ..... one of the things I have insisted on is that she gets a divorce before we go any farther (as I said in the OP !) She paid for the land herself, and off her own bat suggested going 50/50 in any future house (which will NOT be a fancy and expensive baan falang !)

 

As for why I am asking here, I thought that perhaps out of the thousands of members there might actually be somebody with personal experience to relate but it's just mostly speculation and wild conjecture.

 

@khunPer I did find something that says because foreigners cannot own land, any land purchased by a Thai woman married to a foreigner is sin suan tua (personal property) not joint marital property (sin somros) as it would be if married to a Thai husband.  Apparently, until about 20 years ago a Thai woman married to a foreigner could not buy land because half of it would be his so when the law was changed to allow them to own land it was specified that it was hers only and not to be split 50/50 in a divorce. BUT, I have also read that it is subject to the normal split......

@Captain 776 Thanks for that tip about Siam legal.

Edited March 4, 2019 by MikeN

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Not every Thai woman is a scheming money grabber, no more so than a woman anywhere else.

AWALT.

[4MyEgo]

On 2/28/2019 at 10:21 PM, MikeN said:

Her marital status has never worried me, but a year ago she did ask for a divorce which he refused.

I would say for him to refuse, he must be pi$$ed off at her, now that could be for many reasons, e.g. did she fleece him, which happens to most guys in Thailand, no disrespect to your lady, but you will only receive one side of the story, her side, now the way I see it, is your the golden Goose who is about to spend up big $'s on building her a house on her land, personally I wouldn't be worried about her X, might want to be focusing on her a little more, and throw a spanner in the works, e.g. honey I think we should wait a while till you sort things out with the x legally, now if she agrees, all and good, however if she becomes irritable and irrational, then you could look at it as a possibility that she wants your money, just saying, many been played here before, and yes paranoia lurks in my mind with any female.

 

I would be interested to know how long you have been with your GF because a lot of blokes here wear their wallets on their sleeves and building on land means if things go pear shape in your relationship as did her x's without you knowing the other side of the story, there is little you can recoup, in other words what you are doing is handing her your power, control, money is power and control, is that what you want to do, oh and please don't tell me you love her, that's obvious and all and good, but finances should ALWAYS remain separate, it's the power and the control that won't bring you down if you have it, but if you give it to the one you love, their is a VERY strong possibility it will bring you down, think about it for a minute.

 

I live by my golden rule, i.e. only invest as much as your prepared to lose, e.g. 10% of your worth at most.

 

Just something to think about, don't worry about the x, he will be the least of your problems, trust me.

Edited March 4, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, MikeN said:

I did find something that says because foreigners cannot own land, any land purchased by a Thai woman married to a foreigner is sin suan tua (personal property) not joint marital property (sin somros) as it would be if married to a Thai husband.  Apparently, until about 20 years ago a Thai woman married to a foreigner could not buy land because half of it would be his so when the law was changed to allow them to own land it was specified that it was hers only and not to be split 50/50 in a divorce. BUT, I have also read that it is subject to the normal split.....

I have a friend from my home country that was married to a Thai. He got divorced after several years marriage a few years ago – the wife was living with another man – and their property, land and house obtained during marriage, were split 50/50, i.e. sold and the money shared in two equal parts. It however took a while to get the house sold, and the money paid out.

 

It has sometimes been posted that a foreign husband in a land office should sign a document that states the land is bought from the wife's money. However, various land offices handles cases little different, so it might not be a common enforced rule.

 

You need to check with a lawyer familiar with Thai family law.

[sead]

On 2/28/2019 at 1:57 PM, BritManToo said:

You shouldn't be sleeping with another man's wife, end of.

I thought the same.  <deleted>