I am too old, too distracted and have too many other things that occupy my time, to actually spend my time seriously trying to become fluent in Thai.  I also have no facility for learning languages. My wife of 22 years speaks Issan with her family and is no great teacher of Thai.  I get by in the language and I do make an effort to learn new words and phrases, but I am far from being able to have a conversation in the language.  I have resigned myself that this is the level I will probably stay at forever, but I do regret that I didn't make more effort when I was younger to become more fluent. However, had I the drive to learn a language many years ago, it would not have been Thai; more probably it would have been Mandarin.  

I can't imagine a life here if one were unable to speak Thai.  I learned during a different time, however.

12 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

I learned during a different time, however.

Do you mean in "the good old days" when peoples life's were not consumed by hand held gadgets & conversation was the norm, seems so long ago, believe we even had freedom of speech in those happier times?  ????

45 minutes ago, CGW said:

Do you mean in "the good old days" when peoples life's were not consumed by hand held gadgets & conversation was the norm, seems so long ago, believe we even had freedom of speech in those happier times?  ????

I guess I meant pre-internet and when there was much less English spoken (70s and 80s).  It was a time when you simply had less choice.  I am not particularly nostalgic and never talk of the good old days, because now is always the best time for me.????

I think it's all how your brain is wired from a small child 

As a hispanic American I grew up bilingual, and it seemed fairly easy for me to pick up more. 

Now I speak English, Spanish, Mandarin, Thai, Lao & German, all places I've lived.

 

But I think it's really down to that early brain wiring.

 

When we lived in Singapore & our son was born, I spoke to him exclusively in English & Mandarin, my wife in Thai & Lao. 

His head got around it flawlessly, and he's fluent in all of them.

 

I wanted him to learn Spanish as well, but I couldn't keep all 3 languages straight in my head while I was talking to him

 

So on the topic of living in Thailand. I don't think I could have lived in Thailand as long as I did without being able to speak and read Thai & Lao.

That being said it doesn't help that much in getting you inside Thai society on any meaningful way!

 

 

It depends where you live. If you live in a village with very few english speakers then it is probably a good idea. If you live in phuket, pattaya, bangkok etc where alot of people speak english it is not that important. It is still useful to know some basics

I managed quite well with Korean in the early 90's, there was no real choice as little English was spoken outside central Seoul.

 

Here we are nearly 30 years later, I'm 30 years older (that's scary), hearing is less than perfect (I don't hear the tones and I'm deaf one side) and I'm in an almost exclusively English speaking environment (the Thais I work with all speak excellent English).

 

It's not for want of trying but in reality I'm stuffed trying to get past ordering lunch and a beer ????

 

46 minutes ago, dreaming said:

If you live in a village with very few english speakers then it is probably a good idea.

If you live in a village no point in learning central Thai as they'll all be speaking some other language, probably Laos or some local variation of it.

I went to school and learned central Thai, everyone around me converses in Lao ....... mai aroy = bor sep, chan rak tur = bun hat too-wer, mai pen rai = bor bin yang. Wasted 2 years of my time.

54 minutes ago, dreaming said:

It depends where you live. If you live in a village with very few english speakers then it is probably a good idea. If you live in phuket, pattaya, bangkok etc where alot of people speak english it is not that important. It is still useful to know some basics

I concur, I speak and understand basic Thai to be polite and respectful and in all my years here that is all I ever needed. I speak Spanish and Italian at the same level. Not speaking fluent Thai has not impacted me one way or the other. Of course the majority of my time here has been working for US companies and I spend more time teaching factory engineers and managers how to speak English which is rewarding in its own right. 

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you live in a village no point in learning central Thai as they'll all be speaking some other language, probably Laos or some local variation of it.

I went to school and learned central Thai, everyone around me converses in Lao ....... mai aroy = bor sep, chan rak tur = bun hat too-wer, mai pen rai = bor bin yang. Wasted 2 years of my time.

Maybe it's just me, but central Thai and Isaan Lao are kissing cousins.

If you can read and write Thai, then Lao becomes easier, since when written, it's simply a transliteration of Isaan Lao in Thai script so you get to hear the sound and tones

I'm satisfied with being able to communicate in basic Thai. I am too old to ever be fluent, and the tones are difficult for someone who is tone deaf.

I do find it frustrating having to backtrack. I'll speak in Thai, and the person I am addressing then assumes I am fluent, and will launch into a stream of Thai where I will get the gist of about 50%.

I keep trying to learn new words, such as suggesting to my GF she needed handcuffs ( Khun Jair Meeu )

 

13 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Maybe it's just me, but central Thai and Isaan Lao are kissing cousins.

If you can read and write Thai, then Lao becomes easier, since when written, it's simply a transliteration of Isaan Lao in Thai script so you get to hear the sound and tones

How many conversations happen around you in writing?

After 10 years I can order 10 baht of ice and mind the gap between train and platform so I'm getting there ???? 

Just now, BritManToo said:

How many conversations happen around you in writing?

Read facebook, they all write Isaan Lao in Thai script. Anything written on paper in Isaan is the same.

 

Because I could read Thai, I just started to sound out the words I was reading, just like phonics for kids and it all came together

 

Try doing a google translate on almost anything from Isaan and it comes out as gobbledygook. 

22 hours ago, villagefarang said:

I can't imagine a life here if one were unable to speak Thai.  I learned during a different time, however.

I agree... from what I see, it is a far different life then if unable to speak... I think people get hung up on the word "fluent" - - I am not fluent, there are areas where I don't need or have the vocabulary, but I am fluid in conversation and lived for many years in a world where English was not spoken. 

 

Speaking Thai has enabled me to know the people and culture on a different level... and this has added tremendously to my enjoyment and fascination here... 

The thing is that I just can't hear the tones let alone repeating them..

Otherwise, there is not Thai school for foreigners around here, in the Prakhonchai area; being affected by ADD I need a structured environment to learn a language. I got to a decent level in English and Spanish, but only could achieve this with the assistance of good teachers.

14 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

The thing is that I just can't hear the tones let alone repeating them..

Otherwise, there is not Thai school for foreigners around here, in the Prakhonchai area; being affected by ADD I need a structured environment to learn a language. I got to a decent level in English and Spanish, but only could achieve this with the assistance of good teachers.

Tones are the tough one, if you speak a non tonal language.

 

Because I could already speak Mandarin, when I had struggled with the tonal thing.

Then when I came to learn Thai it was fairly easy

 

Try listening to the many youtube videos which help you get there. 

 

You sorta get to a tipping point, when suddenly you will just hear them all

I wanted to also add. Ones age also becomes a driver to learn and speak the language.  Had I come here 20 years or so ago I would have definitely spent the time to learn the language as it would have impacted my life here.  Older now, not so much.  In fact the Thai folks at the factory will far more benefit learning English then I would learning Thai.  Also my wife speaks excellent English so our time out and about is primarily in English albeit she does mix it up around the house and I am always picking up new words.  

 

I will say though it can be annoying when some westerner wants to flaunt his Thai language skill in an audience of other westerners that don't. I usually just laugh.  

 

Again whatever works.  

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I

I went to school and learned central Thai, everyone around me converses in Lao ....... mai aroy = bor sep, chan rak tur = bun hat too-wer, mai pen rai = bor bin yang. Wasted 2 years of my time.

I wouldn't call it wasted time. Most (if not all) of them will understand central Thai. They do watch Thai soap operas..

9 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

I wouldn't call it wasted time. Most (if not all) of them will understand central Thai. They do watch Thai soap operas..

Having watched a few Thai soap operas I have concluded that learning Thai is indeed a waste of time

The vast majority of foreigners I know here speak little or no Thai but seem to get by with translation help from their wives or by spending most of there time hanging out with other expats.  Some of the excuses they use I find sad and defensive but that is their choice, I guess.

 

I disagree with those who say it is a waste of time or that Thai would make no difference in their lives.  How could they possibly know?  Just being able to speak Thai will not solve all problems of living here but without some conversational fluency it is hard to make any inroads.

 

One still needs to know how to communicate with different kinds of people and how to present yourself through choice of words, attitude, appearance and behavior, as real communication is more involved than simply translating from one language to another.  That is where those translation apps fall short.

 

When Thais are comfortable speaking with you they often open up in ways they may feel unable to do with other Thais because of perceived social constraints.  At a recent dinner with several expats I abandoned my normal protocol of avoiding conversations in Thai, to appease the farang husbands.

 

After some verbal testing, a couple of the wives opened up about their experiences of racism in the home countries of their spouses and the angst and humiliation they must suppress when they have to listen to the anti Thai rants of their husbands and their farang friends.  Those feeling never would have come out if they had been forced to converse in English and I felt their relief in being able to express their feelings to a sympathetic foreigner.

 

Just last night while listening to my wife and two friends discussing a difficult relationship one of them is dealing with, I used my position of being older and a foreigner to say something they were thinking but felt uncomfortable saying to their friend.  The tone of their conversation took a turn for the better and they thanked me profusely for my observation.

 

There are indeed educated, intelligent and worldly Thai but you typically won’t find them among those actively pursuing relationships with foreigners for financial gain.  That is where learning the language helps you broaden your access to a different class of Thai people who are not so mercenary in their outlook.

Those who say, "It is a waste of time," usually actually mean they can't learn Thai or they have no intention of trying or both. It is a defence mechanism.

 

Age and language acquisition are closely related. The way the brain acquires and processes new information changes as we age. Thus it is unfair to berate people who arrived here at age 60 for not learning Thai.

 

I could not imagine living in Thailand without being able to speak and read the language. It would be like walking everywhere with leg shackles.

3 hours ago, Vacuum said:

I wouldn't call it wasted time. Most (if not all) of them will understand central Thai. They do watch Thai soap operas..

But the whole point in learning another language is to participate in conversations around you.

Not for them to duck out of a conversation to speak a few words with you in their 2nd language.

Might as well have them speak English with me, at least one of us will be speaking our first language then.

 

2 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Those who say, "It is a waste of time," usually actually mean they can't learn Thai or they have no intention of trying or both. It is a defence mechanism.

pointless.

6 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Speaking Thai has enabled me to know the people and culture on a different level... and this has added tremendously to my enjoyment and fascination here... 

Understanding what they are saying enabled me to 'understand them on a different level' and led me to despise them and wish I hadn't bothered and kept my rose tinted spec.

Possibly the worst thing for me personally about being able to speak Thai is the fact that I can actually understand the nightly Lakorn! LOL

9 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Possibly the worst thing for me personally about being able to speak Thai is the fact that I can actually understand the nightly Lakorn! LOL

Fortunately my wife doesn’t watch that stuff. 

1 minute ago, villagefarang said:

Fortunately my wife doesn’t watch that stuff. 

That is a rare Thai woman....you hold on to her, whatever it takes!

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Understanding what they are saying enabled me to 'understand them on a different level' and led me to despise them and wish I hadn't bothered and kept my rose tinted spec.

maybe it is the company you keep? my family is country farm people, my friends are mostly small city country people... pretty much all pretty nice... 

 

ps - with all due respect.. can you really speak Thai? 

My attitude towards learning Thai is that it's a never-ending commitment equally rewarding and humbling. No matter how much you think you know, there are always new words and phrases to master or someone else who knows more or speaks better. It's important to overcome self-consciousness and any sense of competition. Just let that stuff go. I find that one has to be prepared to make a fool of oneself every day-- but I don't mind, that's how we learn.

 

I took about three months of classes nearly 30 years ago, then just kept learning and practicing on my own throughout the 1990s, while I was working with Thai friends and living in a small provincial town in the North. (I've always been a Northener of sorts, only working briefly or travelling through other regions.) I also picked up one of the tribal languages, a parallel experience with a totally different culture.

 

Watching documentaries and especially interview programns on the late, great tv station iTV helped me pick up the rhythm of conversation. (Thaksin put an end to that.) And back in those days the lyrics to Carabao songs helped too-- a cliche, I know, but a useful one. I remember a visa run to Nong Khai by bus, taking in the endless Isaan landscape and listening to คนสร้างชาติ. 

 

I ended up marrying a Thai language instructor who worked for the US government both in Thailand and Washington, an immensely talented woman. We were never in a teacher-student relationship but she can always answer my questions. In the 2000s I began meeting and working with a diverse group of very articulate Thais and would pick up all sorts of new things. I feel that many of the best aspects of Thai culture are maintained through language: respect for others' views and experiences, humility, compassion, and good humor. I read Thai ok but hardly ever write it.

 

Thai has been part of my life for so long, I couldn't imagine living without it. There are some social upsides and downsides. The obvious upside is that you have access to nearly everyone in the nation, can survive and thrive in most situations. Unscrupulous folk who prey on the stereotypical farang tend to give you wide berth (I encounter a lot of crestfallen taxi drivers in Bangkok). One downside is a sometimes palpable resentment from other foreigners who are still stuck in the competition mindset or who feel insecure. Another is that some minority of middle-class Thais have an initial reluctance to engage because they realize that I have some degree of understanding of the society, its flaws, myths, and obstacles. 

 

But language is only one survival skill. I see other foreigners who do perfectly well on limited Thai but great interpersonal skills. Thais react well to happy people, and on balance one is probably better off being friendly and happy in English than morose and withdrawn in Thai.

 

I didn't intend to write so much, but I like the topic and the Language subforum is one of the only civilized corners of ThaiVisa.