Expelled at BKK today

[onera1961]

6 hours ago, 1RDN said:

The first mistake,

I let my passport fill up with stamps. 

Second mistake, 

I allowed immigration to talk to the GF. She knows that I have a form of work, but nobody can explain the difference. 

Did they call your GF? She lives in Bangkok or in a rural area? When I was living as a perpetual tourists (in the good old days), I told everybody I am a doctor. My business credit cards say Dr. XXXX ????

 

Did you tell the IO that you're a remote worker?

Edited March 19, 2019 by onera1961

[JAG]

23 hours ago, scorecard said:

I find it difficult to believe there was no verbal explanation or perhaps pointing at the numerous number of entries on their print-out.

 

 

The OP admits to using visa on arrival (I suspect he means visa waivers) for 30 days every six weeks or so.

 

They printed off a list of his entries.

 

I'd say that is a bit of a clue why he was denied entry.

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, 1RDN said:

30 day, unlimited entries. 

I don't work in Thailand. 

I am a software engineer, I run my own business in San Jose California. 

I take phone calls, I remotely provide support to places all around the world. 

I do this work from the condo, hotels, passenger in a car, airports, motorcycle trips, everywhere. 

 

The first mistake,

I let my passport fill up with stamps. 

Second mistake, 

I allowed immigration to talk to the GF. She knows that I have a form of work, but nobody can explain the difference. 

 

Lessons learned, 

Renew the passport 

Stick with a message, don't bring anyone else into the situation.

You come to Thailand to travel and see the country. 

Thats what I do.

Addition information for immigration is TMI. 

Yes. Best options:

- Clean passport would avoid initial alarm bells raised by a lot of visa exempt entry stamps.

- A visa, probably a simple SETV from the US at first, to test the water and evaluate how hard and fast they consider the evidence you were working. Subsequent possibilities include further SETVs, METVs, Non O/A's or Elite. 

- Flight into KL, separate ongoing connecting flight to Bkk. That way, if you're bounced back again by immigration you'd only be sent as far as Malaysia where you'd be allowed entry. If that happened, a subsequent land border entry would probably work, but I'd personally want to know if there really is an issue at the airport or if it was a one off - others may disagree. Manila, HK etc might also work as places you can safely be sent back to, but KL is the only neighbouring country with visa free entry for a US citizen that also has the advantage of a land border.

 

You were denied partly on suspicion of working, but given there's no hard proof of this, and assuming you can produce financials to show that your business runs itself and you only need to make intermittent visits back, all to the good. It'd be quite reasonable to explain your gf's interpretation of your phone calls as a "misunderstanding", one of the favourite excuses rolled out by officialdom here when they're in a tight spot. 

 

[onera1961]

21 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Flight into KL, separate ongoing connecting flight to Bkk. That way, if you're bounced back again by immigration you'd only be sent as far as Malaysia where you'd be allowed entry.

Will not the same thing Work if flight is booked for SIN or HKG

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by onera1961

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Will not the same thing Work if flight is booked for SIN or HKG

 

 

KUL is the hub of budget flights in the region (AirAsia), and a free 90 day waiver on entry.

[onera1961]

39 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

You were denied partly on suspicion of working,

But he was working as a remote worker. I know people will jump in and start debating how it is allowed blah blah blah. Also we understand that according to tax code if somebody stays more than 180 day in a country (except retirees), he must pay tax.

Most of life I have worked as a remote worker for technology start ups. However, I have also worked for a few large MNCs (Microsoft, Oracle, Intel). Their contract specifically barred remote workers to work in any country except their pay roll country to avoid tax liabilities.  This also included persons with multiple nationality. They were barred from working in any country except their payroll country to avoid tax liability.

Edited March 20, 2019 by onera1961

[lamyai3]

13 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Will not the same thing Work if flight is booked for SIN or HKG

Yes, but I also refererred to these possibilities in the second half of the paragraph you quoted:

"Manila, HK etc might also work as places you can safely be sent back to, but KL is in the only neighbouring country with visa free entry for a US citizen that also has the advantage of a land border."

[onera1961]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

KUL is the hub of budget flights in the region (AirAsia), and a free 90 day waiver on entry.

Correct, when I was on tourist visas, I would fly to KUL, SIN, HKG, MFM, and PEN only. Not sure they had so many budget flights like today (may be I did not care as Air Asia was always cheap if planned ahead). Never used land borders as there was no need for that during those days (2010-2013).

Edited March 20, 2019 by onera1961

[fforest1]

3 hours ago, balo said:

Next time I have to leave Thailand and re-enter I will act stupid.

 

"I am happy happy, I love Thailand", any questions from IO and I will just repeat "I am happy happy" until they give up.   ????

 

 

This is a good idea....

I plan to use this one....

 

Do you have 20k baht?.......I am happy I love Thailand..

Where is your return ticket....I am happy I love Thailand..

Where is your hotel....I am happy I love Thailand..

Do you work .....I am happy I love Thailand

[onera1961]

1 minute ago, fforest1 said:

Do you have 20k baht?.......I am happy I love Thailand..

Where is your return ticket....I am happy I love Thailand..

Where is your hotel....I am happy I love Thailand..

Do you work .....I am happy I love Thailand

We will read the first report of a person denied entry for mental instability ????

[Skeptic7]

This is extreme. Usually (from personal experience a few years back), you will be stopped or "flagged" around the 6th entry in a year. When happened to me, was excorted to a higher up and we had a very pleasant conversation in which she politely asked me to promise to get a visa, as it was obvious I was living here. I kept my promise. 

 

A friend has been stopped and pretty much same deal, but he still just enters on visa exempt. He may be in for something similar to the OP! And another guy I know, whom is married with 2 kids here, has yet to be stopped, but makes frequent in and outs by air for work. 

 

Had you ever been warned previously? Is there more info to share? Seems extreme even for the ever changing Thailand. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Skeptic7

[balo]

38 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Do you have 20k baht?.......I am happy I love Thailand..

Where is your return ticket....I am happy I love Thailand..

Where is your hotel....I am happy I love Thailand..

Do you work .....I am happy I love Thailand

Add "Yes, I am happy" so they don't think you're completely lost it. 

 

Any answer must be very positive, and remember to look like a real tourist, wear a beach hat, and take a lot of selfies during the interview. 

[thelovedone]

1 RDN

You can think yourself lucky they simply turned you around on your attempted entry.

 

Entry by flouting  the visa laws and it may have ended worse on the way out. Like these farangs i saw recently who didn't quite make it to the departure lounge at Swampy.

[stud858]

Well, here I am at a border allowed to leave Thailand. Everything going as normal with agents helping out. Strange how Cambodian side never gets discussed. Did get asked to fill arrival card in properly though this time. Usually the agent scribbles.

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, balo said:

Add "Yes, I am happy" so they don't think you're completely lost it. 

 

Any answer must be very positive, and remember to look like a real tourist, wear a beach hat, and take a lot of selfies during the interview. 

If it's a woman, ask if you can take a selfie with her in it.

[stud858]

33 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Well, here I am at a border allowed to leave Thailand. Everything going as normal with agents helping out. Strange how Cambodian side never gets discussed. Did get asked to fill arrival card in properly though this time. Usually the agent scribbles.

And all completed. No problems.

[Number 6]

I'm surprised you were allowed to board coming from US or EU. I've been checked for a proper visa for 15 years. Then again, I've always had a ticket +30 days or RT bought in Thailand.

[ShortTimed]

After reading through this thread I will start getting a SETV or METV.

 

I did not realize the risk of being denied and returned home with a loss of $1,100 plane ticket was a concern. I thought I was skookum.

 

As someone said earlier, I don’t understand why a warning or notification would not be made at departure or at some time.

 

But then I have no idea if even my own gov’t behaves similar so I am not criticizing Thailand uniquely but rather the practice.

 

Sure have learned alot in 24 hours of being a member.

 

Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[metisdead]

A post containing link to another forum has been removed. 

 

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[stud858]

I've noticed on my trip to banpakard that Loatian people are allowed to do the visa 1 month runs as many times as they like.

I've been told only two for caulkies.

[BritTim]

4 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I've noticed on my trip to banpakard that Loatian people are allowed to do the visa 1 month runs as many times as they like.

I've been told only two for caulkies.

Yes, those from neighbouring countries, typically entering Thailand with visa exempt entries based on bilateral agreement, are not subject to the two-per-calendar-year rule for visa exempt entries at land borders.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I've noticed on my trip to banpakard that Loatian people are allowed to do the visa 1 month runs as many times as they like.

That is because their visa exempt entries are from a bilateral agreement with Thailand. Same for other countries that get theirs from a bilateral agreement. But they cannot get a 30 day extension of their entries.

Only those under the standard visa exempt scheme are restricted to two a year.

 

[holy cow cm]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

How do you find out these rules that have never been publicly announced?

 

The only official limitations on visa exempt entries are

• two per calendar year when entering via land crossings (introduced at the beginning of 2017)
• preventing the use of visa exempt entries to spend more time in Thailand than is required for normal tourism (introduced in mid 2014). This 2014 guideline was immediately modified by the prime minister saying its should be applied "flexibly" which has effectively meant each airport and individual immigration official decides what is appropriate. It is, however, known that 6+ visa exempt entries since the middle of 2015 generates a notification that the arrival should be scrutinised more closely as qualifying for a tourist entry.

There is no official rule on the number of days per year you can be in Thailand using tourist visas (and never has been). That said, I suspect there are senior people in the Immigration Bureau who feel such a limitation should exist.

As for what you were told by an ambassador, I would certainly listen to what he had to say, but not accept what he said as gospel. In my experience, there are a lot of Chinese whispers involved in what embassies and consulates hear about laws and regulations on matters that do not directly control their own services. Lower level consular officials (and the embassy websites) are notorious for giving totally inaccurate advice. I would never rely on what they said without finding independent corroboration.

I do believe it is official and stated 180 days in a calendar year. 

[cerox]

I have read many of these threads now where people got deported back to the country they just came from and I noticed they all fell into these categories:

- back-to-back tourist visas

- back-to-back visa exempt

- too many tourist visas or visa exempt entries (some here said should not be more than 180 days per year without a proper visa)

 

Thank you for the people who answered my question regarding the ED visa.

The last two times I went out within my ED visa period on re-entry permits (coming back into BKK) - I was out for about two months each time, so in order not to get problems I spoke to the school and they also agreed it would be better to that kind of thing after one visa.

Unfortunately my flight is already booked with Eurowings, also the flight from Europe back to BKK - they do not fly to another airport here like KUL so I cannot rebook.

I talked to the school - they said I should be fine because I never used visa exempt or tourist visas in the past (only once 3 years ago).

My current passport is already a new one, but issued here from the embassy - I know many people will get crazy about that why I did not issue the passport back home - it is simply much more hassle if you do not have residence back home.

Cutting a long story short I will try it in Juni - most likely I will be fine. Since I cannot change the flight anymore it does seem the best solution.

I will have 20k cash and a onward ticket within 30 days handy. I will also take my condo lease with me - in case they interview me what I am doing I can say that I pack my stuff - lease expires shortly after my return anyway.

 

I do speak Thai and with most immigration officers in BKK in the past this was a benefit for me because they kind of saw that I do not only abuse the ED visa stuff like mentioned before. On the other hand, we (Immigration and foreigners) all know that ED visas are the only way for not-married young people to stay here long-term. Not everyone wants to purchase a visa 20 years in advance - they 5-year elite option is too expensive - only the 20y option is value for money.

From my experience I would not recommend "being stupid" and pretending not to speak the language if you do, but that might depend on the IO.

 

If I get deported, which seems unlikely from all the cases I read here, I will accept it, come back later and pack my stuff. Also one of the reasons not to organize the new ED visa now, because I do not want to deposit money if I do not even know if I can come back.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

I do believe it is official and stated 180 days in a calendar year. 

You are wrong. There is no written rule or regulation that states that.

[Wake Up]

On 3/19/2019 at 9:30 AM, onera1961 said:

I agreed. That's the reason I wish to see a rule that says, for example, two visa exempt entry and no more than 180-day in the country with a Tourist visa. Problem solved. No arbitrary decision based on the mood of an IO. 

Some guys work in Asia and fly to Bangkok for the weekend rather than stay in China etc.  several times a year. If USA citizen they are suppose to be visa exempt. I am sure the Marriotts in BKK would not allow immigration to limit visa exempt entries to a small number per year. The OP needs to stay at the JW Marriott and get the Thai managers card and produce the card if he is denied entry. They will call the manager and he will get In every time. Don’t have to stay at the JW every time but just let the manager know what you are doing and stay there sometimes and bring him a gift occasionally if you want. Many Americans working in Asia with Thailand gfs or just enjoy Thailand more than where they are working. Flights are cheap and hotels in BKK used to be much cheaper than now. 

[KarlS]

3 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

I do believe it is official and stated 180 days in a calendar year. 

Where did get this false information? 

[moe666]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Caucasian (or part) folk only, Thai or foreigner.

It is a term originally used to describe the French people in Thailand say 100 years ago or even futher back. Now it is used as a word for western people in general. People who half Thai half western are called Luctung, spelling may be off

[Burma Bill]

On 3/19/2019 at 7:07 AM, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Getting sillier by the minute here! They don't deserve any more visitors.

Unless they are Chinese and now Indian!

[cerox]

In terms of working online: IMHO do not make your life difficult, so that means always say you do not work here. The online working stuff is an endless discussion, the same goes for having a company abroad. What is accepted is property/real estate; if I get asked I say I have rental income in my country, which I could proof if necessary - other income from online work / other countries, do not bother to have that discussion and make your life easy. It is unfortunate that we (younger than 50) can not deposit 800k in a bank to get a retirement visa - why do I have to be at a certain age to retire.

 

The 180day "rule" - I think most of you are right and there might or might not be such a rule, whether it is written down or not. The school said once per year visa exempt should be no issue at all, also after an ED visa. For those who live here I  personally would not do it more often than 60 days per year with visa exempt entries / extensions. Just too risky, because the "rules" are not clear.

 

One thing I learned is, even when everything goes fine, next time I will not arrive at BKK airports anymore, departure is ok. KUL seems to be safer, CNX immigration is nice.