Do you believe in God and why

[AsianAtHeart]

12 minutes ago, Elad said:

You've probably been watching too many popular science programs on discovery. The big bang wasn't an explosion within space, it was the beginning of space and time itself. A regular explosion within space has a center, whereas the universe has no definite central location, in fact the center of the universe is everywhere, the big bang happened everywhere. If you measure the expansion of the universe from Earth or from a Galaxy a billion light years away, the expansion is always centered on you. Also, the big bang theory is not a theory of how the universe started, its a theory of how the it evolved from a time after t = 0 and all the matter/energy within the universe is already there, it doesn't say anything about how the matter/energy got there.

 

The reason we see order in universe is due to the constants of nature being fixed, and as far as we know they do not change with time. When the laws are fixed systems become in equilibrium. Take the stars for example they are in equilibrium, the outward pressure from fusion is exactly balanced by gravity trying to crush the star inwards. If the gravitational constant was not fixed and changed just slightly, then the stars would either implode or blow themselves apart, the universe would be chaotic and life as we know it would not exist.   

Nonsense. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

But isn't that basically the point of the Big Bang theory?

 

I do, certainly, agree with you that nature testifies of the existence of God.  To take the Big Bang as an example, it is supposed to have been a huge explosion, and the matter that ejected from this explosion is said to have formed all of the known stars, planets, and galaxies.  Judging by the rate of supposed expansion of the universe, the effects of the alleged Big Bang are still seen.

 

But when was the last time you saw an explosion produce objects that twirled in circular motions?  Every explosion I've ever seen caused the ejecta to emerge in straight lines--straight out from the center of the explosion.  The only reason for anything to be deflected from that line would be the resistance of some other mass--but the universe, prior to the Big Bang, is said to have been an empty vacuum of space, so there could have been no mass out there! 

 

All one needs to see to be immediately knowledgeable enough to reject the plausibility of the Big Bang theory is Jupiter and its moons.  Jupiter has dozens of moons, the largest of which is larger than the planet Mercury.  We still do not know the full count of Jupiter's moons, and they orbit in opposite directions, without ever colliding, almost like clockwork.  An explosion could never have produced such orderly motion.

 

More details here:

 

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/moons/jupiter-moons/overview/

 

And the moons can be at different orbital speeds.

 

[https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/moons/jupiter-moons/in-depth/]

 

Wikipedia has a list summarizing the major features of each of the moons, including some info on their orbits.

 

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jupiter's_moons

 

There's just no way that all happened by chance, random processes from a Big Bang.

My theory for what it is worth, is that this universe is just the latest in a series of Big Bangs. Everything in the universe eventually falls into a black hole and is ejected in a Big Bang to form a new universe.

So how did the first big bang occur- God is the answer.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Elad said:

You've probably been watching too many popular science programs on discovery. The big bang wasn't an explosion within space, it was the beginning of space and time itself. A regular explosion within space has a center, whereas the universe has no definite central location, in fact the center of the universe is everywhere, the big bang happened everywhere. If you measure the expansion of the universe from Earth or from a Galaxy a billion light years away, the expansion is always centered on you. Also, the big bang theory is not a theory of how the universe started, its a theory of how the it evolved from a time after t = 0 and all the matter/energy within the universe is already there, it doesn't say anything about how the matter/energy got there.

 

The reason we see order in universe is due to the constants of nature being fixed, and as far as we know they do not change with time. When the laws are fixed systems become in equilibrium. Take the stars for example they are in equilibrium, the outward pressure from fusion is exactly balanced by gravity trying to crush the star inwards. If the gravitational constant was not fixed and changed just slightly, then the stars would either implode or blow themselves apart, the universe would be chaotic and life as we know it would not exist.   

None of which denies that God exists.

The God I believe in made all that happen.

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My theory for what it is worth, is that this universe is just the latest in a series of Big Bangs. Everything in the universe eventually falls into a black hole and is ejected in a Big Bang to form a new universe.

So how did the first big bang occur- God is the answer.

My theory is that we don't have a clue about the origin of life. 

The scientists should admit that they don't know,  that way, both them and science itself, could regain some of the credibility they have lost.

[AsianAtHeart]

Quote

Christ gave his life that all who would might be freed from sin, and reinstated in the favor of the Creator. It was the anticipation of the redeemed, holy universe that prompted Christ to make this great sacrifice.

 

Are we followers of God as dear children? or are we servants of the prince of darkness? Are we worshipers of Jehovah, or of Baal? of the living God, or of idols?

 

No outward shrines may be visible, there may be no image for the eye to rest upon; yet we may be practising idolatry. It is as easy to make an idol of cherished ideas or objects as to fashion gods of wood or stone.

 

Thousands have a false conception of God and his attributes. They are as verily serving a false god as were the servants of Baal. God is a God of truth. Justice and mercy are the attributes of his throne. He is a God of love, of pity, and tender compassion. Thus he is represented in his Son, our Saviour. He is a God of patience and long-suffering. If such is the being whom we adore, and whose character we are seeking to imitate, we are worshiping the true God. -- E. White, 1908.

There is only one universe, and God has always been its Creator and Ruler.  Nothing has, nor could have, created itself.  Nothing has come to life by mere chance.

[Sparktrader]

33 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

My theory is that we don't have a clue about the origin of life. 

The scientists should admit that they don't know,  that way, both them and science itself, could regain some of the credibility they have lost.

We know they dont know lots of things. 

 

I believe in god now. Ive seen stuff.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

We know they dont know lots of things. 

 

I believe in god now. Ive seen stuff.

Welcome to share your experiences, although i can't guarantee no occasional insults ????

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

There is only one universe,

...why put limits ?

Realities are universes, and there are countless imho.

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

My theory is that we don't have a clue about the origin of life. 

The scientists should admit that they don't know,  that way, both them and science itself, could regain some of the credibility they have lost.

On the contrary, it's the people who believe that 'God createrd the universe', who don't have a clue. The explanation that there is a Creator God or an Intelligent Designer, is a cop out.

 

Scientific inquiry begines with a clue, that is, at least some evidence that supports a 'hypothesis' or a rational explanation which is related to the clues. After continuing investigation and experimentation, the hypothesis will most likely be either debunked or confirmed to some degree, eventually.

 

However, certain hypotheses, such as the origins of the first forms of life, are extremely difficult to confirm because of the complexity of the environment and the huge time-scales involved, such as millions of years of constantly changing conditions within huge volumes of soupy seas.

 

Nevertheless, despite the enormous difficulties, scientists continue to investigate the issue. Below is an interesting, recent hypothesis from a brilliant, young scientist.

 

"From the standpoint of physics, there is one essential difference between living things and inanimate clumps of carbon atoms: The former tend to be much better at capturing energy from their environment and dissipating that energy as heat. Jeremy England, a 31-year-old assistant professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has derived a mathematical formula that he believes explains this capacity.

 

The formula, based on established physics, indicates that when a group of atoms is driven by an external source of energy (like the sun or chemical fuel) and surrounded by a heat bath (like the ocean or atmosphere), it will often gradually restructure itself in order to dissipate increasingly more energy. This could mean that under certain conditions, matter inexorably acquires the key physical attribute associated with life."
https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-thermodynamics-theory-of-the-origin-of-life-20140122/
 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

This could mean that under certain conditions, matter inexorably acquires the key physical attribute associated with life."

Wow, I've been reminded to avoid mockery today.

Yet, it seems like they've discovered hot water.

So, provided that some big bang originated all the material universe, where does consciousness comes from ?

We are left to ponder if consciousness, intended in a broad way, originated the big bang, or maybe it's consciousness which originated one or multiple big bangs.

I think that it would be safe considering both options. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Wow, I've been reminded to avoid mockery today.

Yet, it seems like they've discovered hot water.

So, provided that some big bang originated all the material universe, where does consciousness comes from ?

We are left to ponder if consciousness, intended in a broad way, originated the big bang, or maybe it's consciousness which originated one or multiple big bangs.

I think that it would be safe considering both options. 

Consciousness is no different to having two arms and two legs. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Dogs and cats have consciousness, are they also spiritual?

 

Mockery is not very spiritual.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Consciousness is no different to having two arms and two legs. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Dogs and cats have consciousness, are they also spiritual?

 

Mockery is not very spiritual.

Examining and comparing different states of consciousness it's exactly the right way to get a perspective and a proper understanding of what is consciousness. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Nevertheless, despite the enormous difficulties, scientists continue to investigate the issue. Below is an interesting, recent hypothesis from a brilliant, young scientist.

but they don't actually know, do they?

 

We can't even see how big the universe is.

 

We don't know, so God can't be discounted.

 

I don't care what anyone else believes. That is their business, but I wish the anti God folk would stop telling me that God doesn't exist, when there is no way they can prove it. It's just an opinion. I'd never claim to have proof as there is no way I can describe what happened to me to believe. I used to be agnostic, but now I'm a believer.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Consciousness is no different to having two arms and two legs. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Dogs and cats have consciousness, are they also spiritual?

 

Mockery is not very spiritual.

Just because you can't see God it doesn't mean God isn't there.

 

Spiritualism allows mockery where it's deserved.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Spiritualism allows mockery where it's deserved.

Atheists think it's ok to mock believers, then complain when they're given a taste of their own medicine ????

[Hummin]

7 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

My theory is that we don't have a clue about the origin of life. 

The scientists should admit that they don't know,  that way, both them and science itself, could regain some of the credibility they have lost.

How come we have or you have with many lost their faith in science? Thats a really good question, where the origin of mistrust of the science coming from. When I was a kid, there where especially one group who was in conflict with science, and these days there is another heavy weighted group who goes against science, while other group make more profit and manage to stay in business longer because of the mistrust against science, such as oil companies, sugar, tobacco, alchohol producers. Lately we see mariuana/ganja business booming because of insufficient clearly fooged data about the overall health benefits of their substances. 
 

Religious and clima change deniers  ( including politicians) is big groups that manage to brake down the trust in science, not only scientists themself.
 

 

I have followed this guy for awhile and find his videos quite interesting, and this video is more a logical explanation of the illusion of truth than any of the above I wrote. 

 

 

 

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Atheists think it's ok to mock believers, then complain when they're given a taste of their own medicine ????

Mocking because of the claims made by hardcore religous who claim their beliefs is The truth, and the only truth without evidence, do deserve mocking when it harm people and societies and try to keep them or return them to dark ages. 
 

Did Monthly Python mocking religion in a good way or a bad way?

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

How come we have or you have with many lost their faith in science? Thats a really good question, where the origin of mistrust of the science coming from.

It's very simple, and I'm not going to dance around it.

First of all, and I'm repeating myself, I'm not against science, I'm against the bad use of science. 

 2nd, Greed has taken over all sectors of society, and most importantly the media, the  politicians, the investors and the scientists. 

I don't see an easy way out of this sad situation. 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

It's very simple, and I'm not going to dance around it.

First of all, and I'm repeating myself, I'm not against science, I'm against the bad use of science. 

 2nd, Greed has taken over all sectors of society, and most importantly the media, the  politicians, the investors and the scientists. 

I don't see an easy way out of this sad situation. 

This was more clear and understandable explanation I believe we all agree on! Thank you

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Did Monthly Python mocking religion in a good way or a bad way?

Lol, you know very well that I'm not a religious fanatic, nor I'm going around trying to push my opinions down people's throat, so, what are you talking about?

I'm not fond of movies, maybe I've seen less than 100 in my whole life, but i heard that Monty python was witty and funny. 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

This was more clear and understandable explanation I believe we all agree on! Thank you

Glad to hear that, but that's my position since many years.

Perhaps it's my fault if I've been misunderstood. 

[AsianAtHeart]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just because you can't see God it doesn't mean God isn't there.

According to the Bible, God is invisible, so I would question anyone who actually claimed to have seen God.  We should not expect to see an invisible Being.

 

Quote

 

"Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen." (1 Timothy 1:17)

 

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" ( Colossians 1:15)

 

 

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Lol, you know very well that I'm not a religious fanatic, nor I'm going around trying to push my opinions down people's throat, so, what are you talking about?

I'm not fond of movies, maybe I've seen less than 100 in my whole life, but i heard that Monty python was witty and funny. 

Life of Brian is one everyone should see. Cant believe you missed that one, it was even banned in many countries for years that made it even more interesting. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python's_Life_of_Brian

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

According to the Bible, God is invisible, so I would question anyone who actually claimed to have seen God.  We should not expect to see an invisible Being.

 

 

I see god every time I open my eyes and accept the world for what it is. 
 

He created humans in his own picture, and certainly when he created our planet and the nature we live in. When I close my eyes, I see the universe in front of my eyes. What else can it be? 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Life of Brian is one everyone should see. Cant believe you missed that one, it was even banned in many countries for years that made it even more interesting. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python's_Life_of_Brian

Thanks, many friends were speaking highly of that movie, but i think I'll pass.

Tbh, i prefer talking to real people, reading books, and even chat on forums, although i can enjoy a good movie once in a while. 

[Walker88]

7 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Examining and comparing different states of consciousness it's exactly the right way to get a perspective and a proper understanding of what is consciousness. 

 

It's pretty clear consciousness is purely an electro chemical construct. It requires blood flow, oxygen exchange, neurotransmitters, and functioning neurons.

 

The superstitious somehow think that Grandma, who lost more and more of her memories and mind as dementia or Alzheimers took their toll, in the instant of death gets everything back and joins some skydaddy in eternal existence.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Walker88 said:

It's pretty clear consciousness is purely an electro chemical construct. It requires blood flow, oxygen exchange, neurotransmitters, and functioning neurons.

Ok, i get it, but consciousness is subjective and personal, and emotional factors play a great part in it.

We are not machines, we are not just physical bodies. 

So, in other words, you are what you think you are.

Glad to help, although I'm probably wasting time.????

[Walker88]

I ask this facetiously, because nobody has an answer that isn't simply absurd.

 

Everybody's gods seem to have always existed. What the heck were they doing from the beginning of time until 13.8 billion years ago? Suddenly some god or gods, perhaps lonely, decided to 'create man in his image'. I guess the god or gods needed someone to tell them how great they were, or thank them for everything from a good meal to a daughter's good grade on a math exam.

 

For some reason, creating man required churning out at least 200 billion galaxies, each averaging a trillion stars, likely most of which have planets.....and then in some obscure portion of an equally obscure galaxy, a planet revolved around a rather ordinary star, and over a few billion years life emerged, evolved, and eventually the creatures the gods needed for praise and thanks appeared.

 

Of course since those creatures spread out around the planet, they all created different types of gods with a host of different rules.  Also, as some deists will claim, these creatures were incapable of any sort of morality until their specific god or gods spoke to someone and laid down a set of rules. For christians and jews, that would be Moses, who apparently came down from a mountain with a pair of stone tablets, gathered around his buddies and announced, "Bad news, guys. We can't murder, steal, or fool around with other women". Deists would try to pretend that up until that point, existence was a pure free for all with murder and mayhem and schtupping anyone at will. (The archeological record of early civilizations shows that narrative is nonsense, and morality grew from civilization itself. No gods were needed to tell humans how to get along.)

 

Not only did humans get all the big rules, they also---depending on the particular superstition---had some additional rules about what animals or creatures they could or could not eat, what days they had to abstain from meat or eating altogether, how women were required to dress as giant eggplants, even how one god's celestial factory seems to have churned out females with quality control problems, so that a little thing called the clitoris had to be removed in a giant factory recall of sorts.

 

Over the course of time, as science has discovered things that conflict with all of the superstitions, gods have lost more and more power. This has been rationalized with with terms such as "Master Plan" or else gods are reported to work in mysterious ways which we cannot understand. Gods can kill and torture children with things like cancer or tsunamis, but that 'privilege' for humans went out with the Aztecs. Gods send tornadoes through trailer parks killing dozens, but if a baby is found in the rubble unharmed, it's a miracle of the same god who ostensibly sent the tornado. Pretty good job being a god....all good things are attributed to you, and all bad things are either mysterious or Master Plan-ish.

 

One consistency in most of these superstitions seems to be everybody loves a virgin. Virgin births predate christianity by centuries, but apparently some woman named Mary was quick enough on her feet to say, "Joey, I swear, god did it". That fable continues as the resulting kid, who suffered a deadbeat dad, was the fulcrum in some bizarre initiation ceremony that would get humans into some celestial country club. Slaughter the kid when he grows up, and everyone's misdeeds are washed away and they, too, are welcome into the country club.

 

And all of this after an infinite period from the very beginning of time until the entire passion play was set in motion 13.8 billion years ago, all so a seemingly lonely god or gods could get the praise they think they deserve.

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I ask this facetiously, because nobody has an answer that isn't simply absurd.

 

Everybody's gods seem to have always existed. What the heck were they doing from the beginning of time until 13.8 billion years ago? Suddenly some god or gods, perhaps lonely, decided to 'create man in his image'. I guess the god or gods needed someone to tell them how great they were, or thank them for everything from a good meal to a daughter's good grade on a math exam.

 

For some reason, creating man required churning out at least 200 billion galaxies, each averaging a trillion stars, likely most of which have planets.....and then in some obscure portion of an equally obscure galaxy, a planet revolved around a rather ordinary star, and over a few billion years life emerged, evolved, and eventually the creatures the gods needed for praise and thanks appeared.

 

Of course since those creatures spread out around the planet, they all created different types of gods with a host of different rules.  Also, as some deists will claim, these creatures were incapable of any sort of morality until their specific god or gods spoke to someone and laid down a set of rules. For christians and jews, that would be Moses, who apparently came down from a mountain with a pair of stone tablets, gathered around his buddies and announced, "Bad news, guys. We can't murder, steal, or fool around with other women". Deists would try to pretend that up until that point, existence was a pure free for all with murder and mayhem and schtupping anyone at will. (The archeological record of early civilizations shows that narrative is nonsense, and morality grew from civilization itself. No gods were needed to tell humans how to get along.)

 

Not only did humans get all the big rules, they also---depending on the particular superstition---had some additional rules about what animals or creatures they could or could not eat, what days they had to abstain from meat or eating altogether, how women were required to dress as giant eggplants, even how one god's celestial factory seems to have churned out females with quality control problems, so that a little thing called the clitoris had to be removed in a giant factory recall of sorts.

 

Over the course of time, as science has discovered things that conflict with all of the superstitions, gods have lost more and more power. This has been rationalized with with terms such as "Master Plan" or else gods are reported to work in mysterious ways which we cannot understand. Gods can kill and torture children with things like cancer or tsunamis, but that 'privilege' for humans went out with the Aztecs. Gods send tornadoes through trailer parks killing dozens, but if a baby is found in the rubble unharmed, it's a miracle of the same god who ostensibly sent the tornado. Pretty good job being a god....all good things are attributed to you, and all bad things are either mysterious or Master Plan-ish.

 

One consistency in most of these superstitions seems to be everybody loves a virgin. Virgin births predate christianity by centuries, but apparently some woman named Mary was quick enough on her feet to say, "Joey, I swear, god did it". That fable continues as the resulting kid, who suffered a deadbeat dad, was the fulcrum in some bizarre initiation ceremony that would get humans into some celestial country club. Slaughter the kid when he grows up, and everyone's misdeeds are washed away and they, too, are welcome into the country club.

 

And all of this after an infinite period from the very beginning of time until the entire passion play was set in motion 13.8 billion years ago, all so a seemingly lonely god or gods could get the praise they think they deserve.

And it all boils down to, did God have Virgin Marys consent? 
 

I believe we are past the man made book religions even Asiathearth try to bring it back to the conversation. 
 

I would be surprised if anyone possible can deny that there where something before what we presume was a big bang giving birth and order to our universe, no matter it was creation or not. 
 

However I believe in the bible verses saying from dust to dust and ashes to ashes, 

 

Genesis 3:19
By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground--because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."

 

There is many verses in bible that where for the time being their knownledge as well many times said their way to manage crowds of people to pull in the same directions. Often created by hypomanic people with excess energy and visionary gifted! 
 

we all know we have different talents who serve different purposes, and we all know we are easily manipulated in bigger audiences when listening to great speachers giving us some answers. 

[VincentRJ]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

but they don't actually know, do they?

 

We can't even see how big the universe is.

 

We don't know, so God can't be discounted.

 

I don't care what anyone else believes. That is their business, but I wish the anti God folk would stop telling me that God doesn't exist, when there is no way they can prove it. It's just an opinion. I'd never claim to have proof as there is no way I can describe what happened to me to believe. I used to be agnostic, but now I'm a believer.

Here's an interesting quote from that famous Physicist, Richard Feynman, which also describes my situation quite well.

 

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it’s much more interesting to live not knowing, than to have answers which might be wrong.” —Richard Feynman (1981)