Do you believe in God and why

[Tippaporn]

6 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

what's the difference?  Does one's belief make something true or not?  Can one do anything about it?  If it gives somebody piece of mind to believe in something, be it God, Jesus, a flat Earth, the Earth sits on the back of a giant tortoise, or whatever, then so be it.  It is all man made thoughts with no proof except some correlations that to quote the statistical people, does not prove causation.

There's a curious aspect regarding beliefs.  As long as one believes in something as true or not then so it is true or not for them.  It should be understood that belief trumps reason, logic and even facts.  More often than not people will argue for their beliefs and the truth be damned.  Actual truth is not the goal that is sought when defending a belief.  The goal becomes only to defend the belief at all costs.  Thus no amount of reason, logic or facts can sway a man who is convinced of the truth of his belief.

[save the frogs]

28 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Yet despite this knowledge you still claim that God can't exist and those who do are full of nonsense. 

I never claimed god doesn't exist or that I believe God doesn't exist. 

I never made the sweeping broad generalization that those who do are full of nonsense.

I read a short part of one of your rather lengthy posts and thought it was nonsense.

And I extrapolated that to assume that a lot of other stuff you're posting is nonsense.

 

[Sunmaster]

57 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

both of you!

but you know what?

let's wipe the slate clean.

ignore that comment. 

let bygones be bygones.

if i read your posts further, i will comment on each individual post as i see fit.

there's no need to put labels on people. 

You're a funny one.

First you call the content of my posts mumbo jumbo without even reading them, then you call me a cult leader, and now you would like to take it all back and honour me with a reply whenever "you see fit" to reply. 

Fascinating. 

[save the frogs]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

First you call the content of my posts mumbo jumbo without even reading them

the mumbjo jumbo was a direct reference to one particular line from tipaporn's post.

i never said everything you guys write is nonsense.

 

 

[save the frogs]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

whenever "you see fit" to reply. 

am i obligated to read and reply to every post in the thread?

sorry, i can't. 

[Tippaporn]

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I never claimed god doesn't exist or that I believe God doesn't exist. 

I never made the sweeping broad generalization that those who do are full of nonsense.

I read a short part of one of your rather lengthy posts and thought it was nonsense.

And I extrapolated that to assume that a lot of other stuff you're posting is nonsense.

 

It's only natural that if someone isn't familiar with the subject matter then he's apt to consider so much of a discussion on the topic to be nonsense.  I wouldn't hold that against anyone.  But if you conclude something to be nonsense then it would be well to then raise your objections giving your own reasoning.  A debate could then ensue.  But simply declaring something nonsensical without saying why it is then, as you say, debate becomes impossible.

[Tippaporn]

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

the mumbjo jumbo was a direct reference to one particular line from tipaporn's post.

i never said everything you guys write is nonsense.

Pray tell what it is I wrote that is nonsensical.  I'm more than willing to have a debate about it.  We might thus even be able to come to an understanding.

[save the frogs]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Pray tell what it is I wrote that is nonsensical.  I'm more than willing to have a debate about it.  We might thus even be able to come to an understanding.

this was the quote i said was nonsense:

Quote

Also, re Karma, if time is simultaneous and all reincarnational selves exist at once then Karma can't possibly work as supposed

I still insist it's nonsense. 

debate what? time is simultaneous? all reincarnated selves exist at once?

i don't know how to begin to debate something which is so absurd.

 

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

this was the quote i said was nonsense:

I still insist it's nonsense. 

debate what? time is simultaneous? all reincarnated selves exist at once?

i don't know how to begin to debate something which is so absurd.

 

51 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The above meme is for you, save the frogs.  How can you know anything other than what you know if you're adamant about never going beyond what you know?  Granted, you're willing to accept an unknown to be true but only if it satisfies your definition of evidence.

For instance, you don't believe in the concept of simultaneous time.  You have neither evidence for nor against.  The main reason you don't believe that simultaneous time exists is because you see no evidence and evidence is a requirement for you to believe something  At the same time you understand that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  Yet despite this knowledge you still claim that simultaneous time can't exist and those who do are full of nonsense.  If you pride yourself on your reasoning mind then the above shows how folks can use reason itself to create unreasonable positions.

I've altered my post to fit your specific objection.  It's simply swapping out "God" for "simultaneous time."

Google relativity of simultaneity.  Then ask yourself whether it's an absurd concept only to you?  And only because you know nothing of the subject matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneitysimultaneous time

[save the frogs]

16 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Google relativity of simultaneity.  Then ask yourself whether it's an absurd concept only to you?  And only because you know nothing of the subject matter.

sorry, I don't have time to get a phd in physics.

i will refrain from further debate.

and i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your statements are accurate.

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by save the frogs

[Tippaporn]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can offer no explanation that would be acceptable to you ( or many others on both sides of the debate ) so I have no reason to give one. After all, as I have said before, I'm not here to convert anyone. I'm just adding to the conversation about my own life experience.

 

I believe in what seems right to me, and if that's not enough for others to accept, so be it.

In a human world IMO going ( or already gone ) insane, I can only try and find a way to survive, and if my belief helps me to understand that death is not the end, that, IMO is a good thing.

 

I at least am able to provide the means for proving what I say to be true to one's self and provide rational and reasoned explanations including a working model.

That's fine for yourself, but do you make room to accept that not everyone agrees with you, and be OK with that, or are you saying that it's "your way, and no other"?

 

some of the unexamined mass beliefs which were taught you on your trail through life

Why do you think you know what I have, or have not examined? I doubt you are psychic to know, so all you have are words that I have written on here, and words are a very imperfect way of communicating at the best of times, and more so when it comes to this subject. If I were to attempt to explain my beliefs more fully my posts would be as long as yours, and I've already said why that would not be a "good thing".

 

I wish you well on your own journey through life, but I won't be joining you on your path.

Here's what I see happening.

Person 1:  I  believe thus and so.
Person 2:  What evidence or reason can you provide which leads to the conclusion of your belief?

Person 1:  I have none.

Person 2:  Well, here's some evidence and reasoning which contradicts your belief.

Person 1:  Are you saying my belief isn't true?

Person 2:  Given the evidence and reasoning I provided you won't you agree that my position is true.

Person 1:  Stop trying to convert me and stop trying to deny my personal reality.

Person 2:  Okay.

"Why do you think you know what I have, or have not examined?  I doubt you are psychic to know, so all you have are words that I have written on here, and words are a very imperfect way of communicating at the best of times, and more so when it comes to this subject."
 

I don't have to be a psychic.  It might come as a surprise to you but it's precisely the words you write here which expose what your beliefs are for all to see.  And if your expressed beliefs don't make sense (granted, I fully understand and am fully aware that they make sense to you) then I can only attempt to show you why they don't make sense.  And that's when everyone takes huge offense.  And stops debating what is actually true or not and says, f the truth, and only goes on to defend their belief to the death.  They usually give up before that, though, and just opt out of the debate using any number of excuses.  Such as:

"If I were to attempt to explain my beliefs more fully my posts would be as long as yours, and I've already said why that would not be a "good thing"."

That's an excuse to avoid exposing and discussing the reasoning you actually employ which allows you to believe what you believe to be true.  As long as you don't explicitly state your reasoning then you can forever come up with responses such as, "I believe in what seems right to me," to serve as the ultimate justification for believing anything at all.  And thereby ending any further debate.  The discussion then evolves to claims that I'm simply trying to convert others, can't understand others, think myself superior, deny others their valid experiences, that I'm really insecure, on and on and on.

Imagine that there are people whose understanding is such that it allows them to see the reasoning behind someone's beliefs without them ever stating their reasoning.  It's called self evidence.  And that self evidence is easily perceivable after one gains a lot of knowledge.  Sorry, I understand that I'm not allowed to claim that I know anything.  My apologies.  It's all just due to my insecurities.

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

At the risk of repeating myself I will say again:

Reality is what it is.  Reality functions as it does.  It cares not one whit what anyone believes it is or believes about it's functioning.  It does not change.

Call that truth if you will.  Although as is evidenced here "truth" is not the same for everyone.  Truth is indeed truly relative.  So instead call reality and it's functioning bedrock reality.  It exists as surely as you exist.

How does our reality function?  How is it that we create?  Those answers can be found in just the title of an essay produced by Jane Roberts back in 1963.  "The Physical Universe As Idea Construction."  That is not metaphorical.  That is literal.  Anyone who understands that concept thoroughly is then capable of perceiving the illusion we call objective reality.

We literally create every last stitch of our experience, from the most insignificant detail down to the most profound experience, via our use of idea construction.  Every belief anyone holds or subscribes to is an idea construction.

What we are doing on this plane of existence is the work of literal creation using ideas, little different than a painter using paints.  And yet we are largely unaware of the task of creation that we are engaged in or the the means by which we perform this task.  And there is good reason why we come here unaware.

It is possible, however (though it's a rare one who is willing to believe in the possibility), and perhaps it's ultimately inevitable for all of us, to understand what bedrock reality is, how it functions, and what our role has been all along.  That, my friends, is like awakening in a dream to the realisation that one is dreaming.  It is an awakening instead to the realisation of who we are and what we are doing here.  And furthermore, a thorough understanding of how we do what we do.  It 's an understanding that life doesn't happen to us but rather life is created by us.  We literally are, each of us, Gods in that sense.  We are creators.

 

The most confounding and confusing aspect is this notion of truth.  Whatever one believes is literally their "truth."  And so there are more "truths" out there than one can shake a stick at and each "truth" is "true."  But, you see, that is the entire point of idea construction.  You take ideas, subjective reality, and literally materialise that into it's physical counterpart.  You then are able to experience an idea in all of it's fullness rather than simply experiencing it mentally.  Whatever ideas are materialised then become the r-e-a-l objective reality which is then experienced.  It's all real and it's all "true."

Beliefs are nothing more than ideas.  So whatever one believes will be that which he or she will then experience.  If you lack money that is a belief.  Not a condition of reality but a belief about reality.  You create using ideas so the belief in the lack of money produces the experience of a lack of money.  Change the belief to an abundance of money and so that belief produces the experience of abundance.  A poor man will show you the evidence of his "truth."  A wealthy man will show you the evidence of his "truth."  Both poverty and abundance exist and each is both real and true.  Once it is understood that there are multiple "truths" then the only question becomes which one do you prefer?  Which "truth" would you like to experience?

The idea that there is only one true reality causes great consternation and confusion.  There exist literally endless realities.  Sooner or later one becomes aware of the real rules of this game and can begin to play by those real rules.  No longer does he or she create by default, which is via the idea that life happens to you, and begins to deliberately create private experience by picking and choosing those ideas, and only those ideas, which produce the manufactured reality which is desired.  One finally comes to the realisation that he or she is a literal God creating his or her own experience.  And that there is no outside force which thrusts upon or inserts experience into any other's experience.  It is all chosen by the inherent free will which is an indelible part of what we are.  Complete and total free will.

Once that realisation comes upon one, the fact that we are all involved in creating our reality in all of it's gruesome and/or majestic detail, then does one's private world truly change.  The veil of illusion has been pierced and when that point is reached I believe our reincarnational cycle is over and we move on to other challenges.

Anyway, I want to re-emphasise the point that there is such a thing as bedrock reality which is the source of all believed realities.  There is the possibility of becoming aware of that reality.  And for me, as a design engineer, as someone who has deep appreciation for how things work using the laws which govern this reality, the mechanics of what's really going on is truly a marvel to behold.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

Again, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.  I will, however, state what I know and leave it up to each and everyone here to choose for themselves.  And hopefully people will choose wisely for themselves.  But, as the Thais love to say, up to you.

Amen.

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Anyway, I want to re-emphasise the point that there is such a thing as bedrock reality which is the source of all believed realities.  There is the possibility of becoming aware of that reality.  And for me, as a design engineer, as someone who has deep appreciation for how things work using the laws which govern this reality, the mechanics of what's really going on is a truly marvel to behold.

Yes, this final explanation is really spot on. 

" the source of all believed realities " is a great image of what some people call "God ".

I've "seen" what you describe, a few times when experimenting with so called psychedelics, and a couple of times thanks to mantras and breathing techniques, and " i know " that what you say is true, although one has to be careful with words, which can easily be misunderstood.

This post is a good effort imho.

[Sunmaster]

[Fat is a type of crazy]

56 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

At the risk of repeating myself I will say again:

Reality is what it is.  Reality functions as it does.  It cares not one whit what anyone believes it is or believes about it's functioning.  It does not change.

Call that truth if you will.  Although as is evidenced here "truth" is not the same for everyone.  Truth is indeed truly relative.  So instead call reality and it's functioning bedrock reality.  It exists as surely as you exist.

How does our reality function?  How is it that we create?  Those answers can be found in just the title of an essay produced by Jane Roberts back in 1963.  "The Physical Universe As Idea Construction."  That is not metaphorical.  That is literal.  Anyone who understands that concept thoroughly is then capable of perceiving the illusion we call objective reality.

We literally create every last stitch of our experience, from the most insignificant detail down to the most profound experience, via our use of idea construction.  Every belief anyone holds or subscribes to is an idea construction.

What we are doing on this plane of existence is the work of literal creation using ideas, little different than a painter using paints.  And yet we are largely unaware of the task of creation that we are engaged in or the the means by which we perform this task.  And there is good reason why we come here unaware.

It is possible, however (though it's a rare one who is willing to believe in the possibility), and perhaps it's ultimately inevitable for all of us, to understand what bedrock reality is, how it functions, and what our role has been all along.  That, my friends, is like awakening in a dream to the realisation that one is dreaming.  It is an awakening instead to the realisation of who we are and what we are doing here.  And furthermore, a thorough understanding of how we do what we do.  It 's an understanding that life doesn't happen to us but rather life is created by us.  We literally are, each of us, Gods in that sense.  We are creators.

 

The most confounding and confusing aspect is this notion of truth.  Whatever one believes is literally their "truth."  And so there are more "truths" out there than one can shake a stick at and each "truth" is "true."  But, you see, that is the entire point of idea construction.  You take ideas, subjective reality, and literally materialise that into it's physical counterpart.  You then are able to experience an idea in all of it's fullness rather than simply experiencing it mentally.  Whatever ideas are materialised then become the r-e-a-l objective reality which is then experienced.  It's all real and it's all "true."

Beliefs are nothing more than ideas.  So whatever one believes will be that which he or she will then experience.  If you lack money that is a belief.  Not a condition of reality but a belief about reality.  You create using ideas so the belief in the lack of money produces the experience of a lack of money.  Change the belief to an abundance of money and so that belief produces the experience of abundance.  A poor man will show you the evidence of his "truth."  A wealthy man will show you the evidence of his "truth."  Both poverty and abundance exist and each is both real and true.  Once it is understood that there are multiple "truths" then the only question becomes which one do you prefer?  Which "truth" would you like to experience?

The idea that there is only one true reality causes great consternation and confusion.  There exist literally endless realities.  Sooner or later one becomes aware of the real rules of this game and can begin to play by those real rules.  No longer does he or she create by default, which is via the idea that life happens to you, and begins to deliberately create private experience by picking and choosing those ideas, and only those ideas, which produce the manufactured reality which is desired.  One finally comes to the realisation that he or she is a literal God creating his or her own experience.  And that there is no outside force which thrusts upon or inserts experience into any other's experience.  It is all chosen by the inherent free will which is an indelible part of what we are.  Complete and total free will.

Once that realisation comes upon one, the fact that we are all involved in creating our reality in all of it's gruesome and/or majestic detail, then does one's private world truly change.  The veil of illusion has been pierced and when that point is reached I believe our reincarnational cycle is over and we move on to other challenges.

Anyway, I want to re-emphasise the point that there is such a thing as bedrock reality which is the source of all believed realities.  There is the possibility of becoming aware of that reality.  And for me, as a design engineer, as someone who has deep appreciation for how things work using the laws which govern this reality, the mechanics of what's really going on is truly a marvel to behold.

 

I don't want to get into debate so sorry if I don't reply further but if you believe we are creating our own reality, not just think it could be but believe it, then you must have extraordinary examples in your own life to show how you have put it into action. Post a picture of your $10,000,000 bank balance, show us your harem of hot chicks, etc. OK, maybe you are not materialistic but there should be extraordinary evidence of things happening that make you think it is correct. 

I get the feeling you are a normal person living a normal life. Like the rest of us. That life has not been particularly kind or bad to you. So why would someone believe that we can turn ideas into the physical when it's proponents have nothing to show that it works. I want extraordinary. Not coincidences. Not feelings that seemed special. Not a lucky car parking spot. It's a BIG CALL to go with your theory. The irony in many of your posts about people not being willing to change their mind when presented with new evidence is palpable. 

No more words. Evidence. If no evidence then fine - you believe Seth and that's fine but it is no more than a normal belief by the normal definition. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Tippaporn]

I'd like to comment on some of the experiences folks here have related as to experiencing subjective reality more or less directly.  Direct knowing, for instance.

Ours is a reality which requires our full attention and focus.  That focus is important to our very survival.  Now many here understand that there exists the reality of our inner self.  Some call it the greater self, or the higher self, both terms which I don't like because the words are loaded with all sorts of meanings.  Experiencing that more expansive reality of our inner, or subjective self is without doubt highly beneficial.  One can experience great clarity without any reasoning involved whatsoever.  Euphoria as well.

Unfortunately those types of experience lead some to believe that earthly existence is little more than a mere shadow in comparison.  A lower form of existence.  There are religions which teach the road to enlightenment and speak of this worldly existence in most derogatory fashion.  Our physical existence is then thought to be unwanted, something to move out of as quickly as possible.  I can understand how these ideas evolve.

Yet what is forgotten, or unaccounted for, or dismissed, is the fact that our very existence here serves a very important function to the inner self.  The inner self is unable to experience as we do and thus benefits from and through our experience.  Our existence here is quite important and integral and so any philosophy which attempts to denigrate it grossly misses the point.

Seth provides many, many exercises for the express purpose of expanding our awareness outside of it's usual confines.  But he also stresses that any such expansion of awareness, or expansion of consciousness, is not meant to replace our experience here but rather it is to be used to enhance our physical experience.

Some here have alluded to the sentiment that reason and logic are merely poor cousins to this state of direct knowing.  And therefore conclude that reasoning and logical thought are not so important.  That sentiment ignores the most obvious and in-your-face fact that we are reasoning and thinking creatures.  As Seth has stated, humans are the thinking portion of nature.

 

The inherent reasoning and thinking aspects of our type of consciousness are vitally important.  Those aspects are what allows use to produce all which man has created and that which animals cannot.  From our technologies to our arts and sciences we utilise not only our abilities of imagination and intuition but our intellect and reasoning capabilities as well.  I would hesitate greatly before poo-pooing reason and logic.  Neither would I overly rely on intellect alone, as intellect has been fashionably thought these days to be the only aspect of ourselves which can solve every man-made problem.  The ideal is a blending of all of our aspects and abilities.

[Tippaporn]

14 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I don't want to get into debate so sorry if I don't reply further but if you believe we are creating our own reality, not just think it could be but believe it, then you must have extraordinary examples in your own life to show how you have put it into action. Post a picture of your $10,000,000 bank balance, show us your harem of hot chicks, etc. OK, maybe you are not materialistic but there should be extraordinary evidence of things happening that make you think it is correct. 

I get the feeling you are a normal person living a normal life. Like the rest of us. That life has not been particularly kind or bad to you. So why would someone believe that we can turn ideas into the physical when it's proponents have nothing to show that it works. I want extraordinary. Not coincidences. Not feelings that seemed special. Not a lucky car parking spot. It's a BIG CALL to go with your theory. The irony in many of your posts about people not being willing to change their mind when presented with new evidence is palpable. 

No more words. Evidence. If no evidence then fine - you believe Seth and that's fine but it is no more than a normal belief by the normal definition. 

Oh boy.  You really put me on the spot.  What do I do now?!?!?!?!

Sorry, Fat is a type of crazy, but I can't meet your demands.  I therefore admit to you that I'm just a normal person with normal beliefs.  Nothing more.  Sorry, folks, for having misled ya'll this entire time.

No one can meet your demands except yourself, Fat is a type of crazy.  It's for you to prove to yourself for no one else's proofs will do.  That is the simple reality of your situation.  And others.  Go ahead and punt.  It's your life.

[mauGR1]

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Yet what is forgotten, or unaccounted for, or dismissed, is the fact that our very existence here serves a very important function to the inner self.  The inner self is unable to experience as we do and thus benefits from and through our experience.  Our existence here is quite important and integral and so any philosophy which attempts to denigrate it grossly misses the point. 

Yes, i can confirm from my experience and other's that this is a very common mistake. 

Yet, ,on the contrary, i see the majority of people so absorbed in their little materialistic bubble, that it feels like a blessing to be different ????

[Tippaporn]

23 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I don't want to get into debate so sorry if I don't reply further but if you believe we are creating our own reality, not just think it could be but believe it, then you must have extraordinary examples in your own life to show how you have put it into action. Post a picture of your $10,000,000 bank balance, show us your harem of hot chicks, etc. OK, maybe you are not materialistic but there should be extraordinary evidence of things happening that make you think it is correct. 

I get the feeling you are a normal person living a normal life. Like the rest of us. That life has not been particularly kind or bad to you. So why would someone believe that we can turn ideas into the physical when it's proponents have nothing to show that it works. I want extraordinary. Not coincidences. Not feelings that seemed special. Not a lucky car parking spot. It's a BIG CALL to go with your theory. The irony in many of your posts about people not being willing to change their mind when presented with new evidence is palpable. 

No more words. Evidence. If no evidence then fine - you believe Seth and that's fine but it is no more than a normal belief by the normal definition. 

BTW, I thought you already had your fill of this place and exited quite some time ago.  Don't come back now just to troll with your disbelief and demands to satisfy you on your terms only.  And with an upfront refusal to debate anything.  We're serious people here.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

BTW, I thought you already had your fill of this place and exited quite some time ago.  Don't come back now just to troll with your disbelief and demands to satisfy you on your terms only.  And with an upfront refusal to debate anything.  We're serious people here.

OK I accept your right to have an opinion in that way. Exhibit A: Someone says meditation brings me a clarity and insights I never had before. I believe it has a significance beyond this and could indicate there is a god. Exhibit B: Someone says I know that ideas and thoughts can be turned into reality. Those who do not believe this are constricted in their thinking and have closed their mind. 

I am happy to leave A to their devices and can be interested in what they have to say but B is a different kettle of fish. It is reaching for the stars when it may be time to get their feet back on the ground.

But I appreciate your input and concur that it is best I disappear back into the ether.

[save the frogs]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I actually understand some of your frustration, as I don't understand a lot of the conversation, mainly because I'm not sufficiently invested in it to get involved, or pursue the theories presented, but among the stuff I don't understand there is some really great information to be be acquired, so I'll keep reading.

maybe you dont understand a lot of the conversation because a lot of it is bs.

not all of it.

but good luck sifting through all of this.

have fun.

[Tippaporn]

20 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Yes, i can confirm from my experience and other's that this is a very common mistake. 

Yet, ,on the contrary, i see the majority of people so absorbed in their little materialistic bubble, that it feels like a blessing to be different ????

We're taught that the material world is all there is.  So it's not a great surprise that folks are grabbing what they can while it lasts.  It's the natural outcome, the product of that idea.  And other similar ideas which fall into it's orbit, of course.  Materialism isn't inherently "wrong," though.

Considering the fact that this reality is one in which we learn to create via ideas then to create one's own life one needn't worry about what anyone else is creating for themselves.  I know what the common answer to that would be.  "But what they create affects me . . ."   Only as much as you allow it to, though.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Tippaporn

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

maybe you dont understand a lot of the conversation because a lot of it is bs.

not all of it.

but good luck sifting through all of this.

have fun.

What you're saying is "...a lot of it I just don't get and for that reason I declare it to be BS."
However, the honest thing to say would be "a lot of it I just don't get and I don't believe in it."
Can you see the difference?

[Tippaporn]

5 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

OK I accept your right to have an opinion in that way. Exhibit A: Someone says meditation brings me a clarity and insights I never had before. I believe it has a significance beyond this and could indicate there is a god. Exhibit B: Someone says I know that ideas and thoughts can be turned into reality. Those who do not believe this are constricted in their thinking and have closed their mind. 

I am happy to leave A to their devices and can be interested in what they have to say but B is a different kettle of fish. It is reaching for the stars when it may be time to get their feet back on the ground.

But I appreciate your input and concur that it is best I disappear back into the ether.

Subjective reality can't be proven.  Not by science or anyone else.  Only to one's self.  You don't understand that very important point.  Yet.

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

What you're saying is "...a lot of it I just don't get and for that reason I declare it to be BS."
However, the honest thing to say would be "a lot of it I just don't get and I don't believe in it."
Can you see the difference?

Folks only see what they want to see and they don't understand that point.  They like to imagine that what they see is the only thing there is to see.  Not just for themselves but for everyone.  What they can't see either doesn't exist or it's bullsh!t.  They'll figure it out sooner or later.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Subjective reality can't be proven.  Not by science or anyone else.  Only to one's self.  You don't understand that very important point.  Yet.

But in your own words you say you ' take ideas, subjective reality, and literally materialise that into it's physical counterpart.' That is the point of my posts. There should be proof of that. If not then let's stick with Exhibit A and say you have subjective experiences that seem significant. 

 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

But in your own words you say you ' take ideas, subjective reality, and literally materialise that into it's physical counterpart.' That is the point of my posts. There should be proof of that. If not then let's stick with Exhibit A and say you have subjective experiences that seem significant. 

 

Let's stick with B instead.  I play pool.  You always want to take the most difficult shot first and leave the ducks for cleanup.

Let's start by asking you a personal question.  What's your financial situation?  Okay.  I don't want you to answer that as it's strictly your business.  But we'll use it nonetheless to prove a point.

What are your beliefs about money?

- Do you believe money is hard to come by?

- Do you believe that money is easy to create in sufficient quantity?

- Do you believe others are out to get your money?

- Do you believe money is good?

- Do you believe money is bad?

- Do you believe money is the source of happiness?

- Do you believe money is the solution to problems?

- Do you believe money is the source of all good things?

- Do you believe money is the root of all evil?

- Do you believe you have enough money?

- Do you believe you have too little money?

- Do you believe you have the skills to command a great deal of money for your talents?

- Do you believe you do not have any skills or talents to create a great deal of wealth?

- Do you believe money makes the world go round?

- Do you believe you are underpaid?

- Do you believe you are fairly paid?

- Do you believe you are overpaid?

- Do you believe you struggle with money?

- Do you believe money lost is gone forever?

- Do you believe there's a limited supply of money?

- Do you believe there's a never ending abundance of money?

 

These are just some of the questions regarding money that I ask you to answer.  Not to me or anyone else.  But only yourself.  But you must be brutally honest in your answers.  Otherwise, what's the point of fooling yourself?

Now I'll ask you to match your answers and see how your experience mirrors those answers.  Your answers matched to your experience will serve as your personal proof that ideas create experience.

You can do this using any subject matter.  Why?  Because the process which is used is the same for all issues.  You create every issue in your life using the same process.

And so, the evidence for you and everyone else is your lived experience.  As I like to say, the proof is always in the pudding.  And the pudding is your life.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Tippaporn

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Let's stick with B instead.  I play pool.  You always want to take the most difficult shot first and leave the ducks for cleanup.

Let's start by asking you a personal question.  What's your financial situation?  Okay.  I don't want you to answer that as it's strictly your business.  But we'll use it nonetheless to prove a point.

What are your beliefs about money?

- Do you believe money is hard to come by?

- Do you believe that money is easy to create in sufficient quantity?

- Do you believe others are out to get your money?

- Do you believe money is good?

- Do you believe money is bad?

- Do you believe money is the source of happiness?

- Do you believe money is the solution to problems?

- Do you believe money is the source of all good things?

- Do you believe money is the root of all evil?

- Do you believe you have enough money?

- Do you believe you have too little money?

- Do you believe you have the skills to command a great deal of money for your talents?

- Do you believe you do not have any skills or talents to create a great deal of wealth?

- Do you believe money makes the world go round?

- Do you believe you are underpaid?

- Do you believe you are fairly paid?

- Do you believe you are overpaid?

- Do you believe you struggle with money?

- Do you believe money lost is gone forever?

- Do you believe there's a limited supply of money?

- Do you believe there's a never ending abundance of money?

 

These are just some of the questions regarding money that I ask you to answer.  Not to me or anyone else.  But only yourself.  But you must be brutally honest in your answers.  Otherwise, what's the point of fooling yourself?

Now I'll ask you to match your answers and see how your experience mirrors those answers.  Your answers matched to your experience will serve as your personal proof that ideas create experience.

You can do this using any subject matter.  Why?  Because the process which is used is the same for all issues.  You create every issue in your life using the same process.

And so, the evidence for you and everyone else is your lived experience.  As I like to say, the proof is always in the pudding.  And the pudding is your life.

 

I accept that attitude, confidence, heart, discipline, and the flow on effects such as education, risk taking or carefulness, etc effect your financial outcomes. There are some people who seem attracted to bad investments and others who seem to have an ability to invest well and succeed. My opinion though is the link between thoughts and actuality is based on known factors and not some spiritual, or other worldly, or kharmic factors.

Someone said how can you explain kharma to an 8 year old. My opinion on kharma is that at different points we make decisions - hard path or easy path, sensible or indulgent, long term or short term thinking. Good is not written on a tablet somewhere but stem from things that make our bodies strong - things that give us clarity, allow us to hold our head high, and have a strong heart. If we choose bad we become weak, tired, confused etc. Not morality as such but the reality of the effect of actions on ourselves.

People sense it. Being bad opens up vulnerabilities in our bodies and allows people to take advantage of us. 

Kharma is based on our own decisions and the effect on the body and doesn't require a god or other wordly interaction. We make our own selves to an extent, but based on reality, based on real things. If an earthquake happens it comes under the category of stuff happens. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Fat is a type of crazy

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Again, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.  I will, however, state what I know and leave it up to each and everyone here to choose for themselves.  And hopefully people will choose wisely for themselves.  But, as the Thais love to say, up to you.

Amen.

Seriously? You wrote a long post telling me that I'm wrong and that you are right. That's hardly leaving up to me to choose!