Does negative posting cause expats to leave or not come to Thailand

[Rimmer]

A baiting flame has been removed

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Giving incomplete information can be a form of deception. You try to sell the changes for people without letters as overall positive when it's obviously overall negative.

 

Don't believe me?

 

 

Start the poll I suggested.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I did not give incomplete information.  The only change in the income method is for the citizens of 3 embassies who now only need a statement/letter from the bank of 12 months of deposits to get an extension.  Rogue offices have had in the past and will continue to have different policies.  The best way to deal with that is to post your experiences accurately - just the facts each time you get an extension.  So other members can be better prepared.

 

I asked a simple question and now can we get back on topic to that simple question about social media effecting gullible expats. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I did not give incomplete information.  The only change in the income method is for the citizens of 3 embassies who now only need a statement/letter from the bank of 12 months of deposits to get an extension.  Rouge offices have had in the past and will continue to have different policies.  The best way to deal with that is to post your experiences accurately - just the facts each time you get an extension.  So other members can be better prepared.

 

I asked a simple question and now can we get back on topic to that simple question about social media effecting gullible expats. 

I disagree.

You've repeatedly tried to sell the current income method without letters as POSITIVE news, overall.

I have repeatedly posted long lists of very real issues detailing how that is simply NOT TRUE.

You have never acknowledged those issues.

Instead, you continue to sell a simple message that there aren't any issues with the income method without letter.

In my view that is massively disingenuous, thus a form of deception.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Jingthing

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I disagree.

You've repeatedly tried to sell the current income method without letters as a POSITIVE news, overall.

I have repeatedly posted long lists detailing how that is simply NOT TRUE.

You have never acknowledged those issues.

Instead, you continue to sell a simple message that there aren't any issues without the income method without letter.

In my view that is massively disingenuous, thus a form of deception.

I won't take the off topic bait.

[Jingthing]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

I won't take the off topic bait.

That's cute considering you yourself have already done multiple posts about that topic on this very thread. But I'll accept your punt. I've made my point well. The POLL.

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think I know how to settle this.

How about a poll where the people that can still get embassy letters are asked would you like to see your embassy stop issuing letters so that you can have the great privilege of having to apply for an income method application the same wonderful super easy way as the nationals that can no longer get letters?

 

Reminds me of a Swiftian modest proposal.

 

Expats will be clamoring now. Stop the letters!

 

Back to the real world.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

The idea for this poll was a bit of a joke, but perhaps it's a good idea to actually do it.

 

Of course I assume the result would overwhelmingly be that people that can still get embassy income letters would want to continue to be able to get them.

 

But I don't know that.

So if you'd like to see a poll as above, I will start it if this post gets TEN likes. Otherwise, not. 

[marcusarelus]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's cute considering you yourself have already done multiple posts about that topic on this very thread. But I'll accept your punt. I've made my point well. The POLL.

I won't let you turn this thread into another disinformation campaign - I won't take the bait. You'll have to talk to yourself to get any cooperation.

Edited April 25, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Jingthing]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

I won't let you turn this thread into another disinformation campaign - I won't take the bait. 

You said that already and I said I accepted your punt. You can't accept a YES, huh? 

[totally thaied up]

The income method was perfect for me. Now it is detrimental. I have no need to bring in 40K a month. I earn more than that and have a very healthy bank account in Australia. It is very negative what happened but I could see at some stage due to abuse it was going to end. Social media has kept me up to date with all these changes and many people on Facebook forums are complaining as well. For three very large countries, it is negative and just one missed month from sickness could stuff it all up. I don't need huge sums of money in Thailand as I make my living in Australia and within moments if I need cash, I can get it if need be.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, totally thaied up said:

The income method was perfect for me. Now it is detrimental. I have no need to bring in 40K a month. I earn more than that and have a very healthy bank account in Australia. It is very negative what happened but I could see at some stage due to abuse it was going to end. Social media has kept me up to date with all these changes and many people on Facebook forums are complaining as well. For three very large countries, it is negative and just one missed month from sickness could stuff it all up. I don't need huge sums of money in Thailand as I make my living in Australia and within moments if I need cash, I can get it if need be.

I'm changing as a result of things I've read on this forum.  I'm doing the income method because I don't have to take a taxi to Bangkok.  I takes me a whole day and the wife goes shopping at embassy mall.  Not cheap.  Now I'll just go to the bank so reading Thai Visa has made it easier for me.  If I read that the insurance is changing and I'll be kicked out I'll leave.  However those are factual matters.  Some posters use it as a bully pulpit to push people out of Thailand.  For that reason one has to check everything.  

 

And posters make up so much stuff.  One guy left because of fear of the law and he posts here he left because of visa changes.  You have to dig.  Another guy posted he left because of recent visa changes and he left 3 years ago.  Thankfully it is easy to go back and do some research.  Some posters have been advising others to leave for 10 years and are still at it. 

[nausea]

Stop them coming, probably not; you have to be here a while, before you get that Thaivisa cynicism. Personally, I went from Stickman, to Ajarn, to Thaivisa. What I would say to the newbies, enjoy it while you can. You will eventually get to the Thaivisa cynicism. It ain't a good place to be. I would pose one question - if it's such an awful place why stay here? 

.

[champers]

On 4/24/2019 at 5:55 PM, Spidey said:

On Thai Visa? Absolutely not. You'd have to be deranged to take anything you read on TV with anything but a very large pinch of salt. Keyboard warrior central. I use TV for my personal amusement only.

 

The only medium that has the power to influence others as to their choice to come to Thailand or not, and then only tourists, are some British tabloids such as the Sun who regularly churn out highly sensationalised stories about Thailand.

 

Is that a bad thing or not? Some would argue that dissuading a bunch of shaven headed, tattooed Sun readers from visiting Thailand is a net positive.

You presume they are dissuaded. I would say more Sun readers are persuaded to come, for the excitement alone.

[totally thaied up]

8 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I'm changing as a result of things I've read on this forum.  I'm doing the income method because I don't have to take a taxi to Bangkok.  I takes me a whole day and the wife goes shopping at embassy mall.  Not cheap.  Now I'll just go to the bank so reading Thai Visa has made it easier for me.  If I read that the insurance is changing and I'll be kicked out I'll leave.  However those are factual matters.  Some posters use it as a bully pulpit to push people out of Thailand.  For that reason one has to check everything.  

 

And posters make up so much stuff.  One guy left because of fear of the law and he posts here he left because of visa changes.  You have to dig.  Another guy posted he left because of recent visa changes and he left 3 years ago.  Thankfully it is easy to go back and do some research.  Some posters have been advising others to leave for 10 years and are still at it. 

Yes, research is good.

 

When I first started to set myself up with my wife, I was spending 50k a month. Now three years later, we spend 28K a month and I have no need to spend really more. My wife could see this coming about the income letter and when the dollar was still at 28, begged me to bring over 400K and forget about it. Lucky I did.

[Lacessit]

I would not know if negative posting affects expats to the extent of leaving or not coming here. I do know if I took everything negative to heart that I read on Thai Visa, I would have slashed my wrists by now.

Curiously, the wailing Greek chorus of posters seem to have issues that I never encounter, or, if I do, they are so trivial I have to wonder how said posters can get so worked up about them. Perhaps I have achieved equanimity.

[BritManToo]

40 minutes ago, nausea said:

if it's such an awful place why stay here? 

We have houses and children, some still have wives.

 

But nobody is claiming it's a bad place, just a bad government, and corrupt immigration system that doesn't want us here. If they'd sell me a VISA for $300 like everywhere else, with no hoops, (like they did before 2010) I'd be fairly content.

Edited April 25, 2019 by BritManToo

[Jingthing]

I've never said it was a bad place to live in. My issue is with the recent onerous visa changes. Not the same thing.

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Jingthing

[Pattayabeerbacon]

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I've never said it was a bad place to live in. My issue is with the recent onerous visa changes. Not the same thing.

 

Not showing a downside to something is deceptive and misleading.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Not showing a downside to something is deceptive and misleading.
 
 

Well I agree with that and with the recent onerous major visa changes even though not all are impacted there are definitely some major negative things to say about them if a person is not wanting to be deceptive.

Run on sentence prize?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well I agree with that and with the recent onerous major visa changes even though not all are impacted there are definitely some major negative things to say about them if a person is not wanting to be deceptive.

Run on sentence prize?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I realize you have a reflex action to make every post a negative infomercial for the new visa changes but try and control yourself as that is not the topic of this thread.  Thanks

[Jingthing]

I realize you have a reflex action to make every post a negative infomercial for the new visa changes but try and control yourself as that is not the topic of this thread.  Thanks

Could have fooled me. Thanks for the insults. They were delicious.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Mike Teavee]

11 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't have to drive to Bangkok and pay the embassy for an income letter.  Now I can get it for a pittance at my local bank.

I've never had to visit my Embassy (UK), did my Income letter via email (from Singapore) & it was in my mailbox waiting for me when I got back to Bangkok...

 

There have been a few positive rumours such as:-

• The new METV was going to make everything easier (it didn't)
• The new O-X Retirement Visa was going to make everything better (it didn't)
• They were going to do away with TM6 arrival cards (they did, for Thais).

... and my favourite... 

• You'll be able to do your 90 day report online, lol, one of the funniest April 1st jokes I'd ever read ???? 

 

Oh & Farang not being able to marry a Thai is a positive thing, if you're single - It's one of the things that Cambodia has going for it now I'm over 50... ???? - Joking, if I were ever in that position the law is that you can't marry them in Cambodia, you can always go to Singapore, get married & it will be legal in Cambodia (Just don't let your Khmer gf know)

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

10 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I did not give incomplete information.  The only change in the income method is for the citizens of 3 embassies who now only need a statement/letter from the bank of 12 months of deposits to get an extension.  Rogue offices have had in the past and will continue to have different policies.  The best way to deal with that is to post your experiences accurately - just the facts each time you get an extension.  So other members can be better prepared.

 

I asked a simple question and now can we get back on topic to that simple question about social media effecting gullible expats. 

And that in itself is a major change for those who choose not to bring their money into Thailand every month.  I only transfer when I feel the time is right (haven't transferred any over since Nov/Dec) instead I bring SGD$ with me & exchange it at the booths in my local mall (rates are better than I get with my Bank possibly even better than Transferwise which can't be relied upon 100% to show xfers as FTTs) - Again, if I feel the fx rate is right, if not I just use the money I already have in my Thai bank account. 

 

Or those who choose not to transfer any money over at all (as an American using a Charles Schwabb account gets you free withdrawals, as a Citibank Gold customer I get free withdrawals from their ATMs at Asoke & my BBK branch is across the road so if I wanted to I could walk over & deposit it there).

 

So nothing has changed using the income method, except not needing an Income Letter for those who were already, religiously (there's talk about transfers having to happen on more or less the same day every month) transfer > 65K pm.

 

For UK pensioners, that last point is a real problem as pensions are paid every 4 weeks, so it's possible that 2 payments could arrive in January & none arrive in time in February. 

 

 

No offence, but your argument on this point comes across as "I'm alright Jack" but the majority of people (including those like me who keep the 800k+ in the bank) are negatively impacted by these changes.

 

Edit: Maybe a good poll would be to see who's been negatively impacted by the Visa changes, even some who can still get Income letters are reporting that they're having to show proof of where the income is coming from   

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

...

No offence, but your argument on this point comes across as "I'm alright Jack" but the majority of people (including those like me who keep the 800k+ in the bank) are negatively impacted by these changes.

...

Bingo. 

[Mike Teavee]

Back to the original topic, I think confirmation bias plays a large part in negative posts causing expats to leave or not come at all.

 

If you think Thailand is the best thing since sliced bread, most of the negative aspects can be easily overcome by spending a little bit of cash (I also think a persons income/asset level has a bearing on how negative these "aspects" are) and it won't sway you one bit.

 

If you already have concerns/doubts about living in Thailand then negative posts can feed these causing you not to move/leave.

 

Using myself as an example, I've semi moved to Thailand & have a "Life" (Condo, Non-O Visa, Bank Account etc...) in Bangkok that I go to 8-10 days a month (spend the rest of the time working overseas).  If you would have asked me 6 months ago - I wouldn't have hesitated in saying I'm definitely moving to Thailand, now I'm honestly not so sure because:-

1. TM30 reporting - I travel a lot (am never in the same place for 2 weeks solid) so the thought of having to drag myself to Immigration every 2 weeks to "Report" is ridiculous 
2. Bank Account Reporting - With the new Visa change I might now need to go to Immigration every 90 days to show them my Bank Book 
3. 90 Day reporting - Irrelevant to me, haven't spent 90 consecutive days in the same country in > 15 years & I plan on doing even more travelling when I'm permanently retired

... of course I can get around all of these by:-

1. TM30 - Get Condo Management to do it (Will try to get them to do this on my next Trip, they already know I'm in & out of the country a lot) 
2. Bank Account Reporting - Switch to Income method, buy the TE 20 year (1 Million THB) Visa or see if I can get an agent to do it for me
3. 90 Day reporting - again irrelevant to me

... But I honestly find myself looking for negative reasons to make the move & eagerly read all of the threads that discuss other options with Vietnam, Taiwan & LATAM being of particular interest, could quite easily/happily live in Philippines (Used to have a house in Davao) or Cambodia but they're more of a "Tier 2" for me.

 

Lol, I decided I was definitely not making the move on Sunday when I got asked for my Passport when topping up a BTS Card that I've had for 6+ years but hopefully it's a one-off registration thing (I only had my passport with me because I was exchanging some $SGD), if it's not then the GF will have a monthly job to top it up for me.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Spidey]

17 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Really?  6 overwhelms 4, doesn't it? 

 

Perhaps you know the point at which a majority (that, by definition, overwhelms) becomes overwhelming?

52% v. 48%? A Brexiteer would say that's overwhelming. All very subjective.

[Spidey]

20 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Back to the original topic, I think confirmation bias plays a large part in negative posts causing expats to leave or not come at all.

 

If you think Thailand is the best thing since sliced bread, most of the negative aspects can be easily overcome by spending a little bit of cash (I also think a persons income/asset level has a bearing on how negative these "aspects" are) and it won't sway you one bit.

 

If you already have concerns/doubts about living in Thailand then negative posts can feed these causing you not to move/leave.

 

Using myself as an example, I've semi moved to Thailand & have a "Life" (Condo, Non-O Visa, Bank Account etc...) in Bangkok that I go to 8-10 days a month (spend the rest of the time working overseas).  If you would have asked me 6 months ago - I wouldn't have hesitated in saying I'm definitely moving to Thailand, now I'm honestly not so sure because:-

1. TM30 reporting - I travel a lot (am never in the same place for 2 weeks solid) so the thought of having to drag myself to Immigration every 2 weeks to "Report" is ridiculous 
2. Bank Account Reporting - With the new Visa change I might now need to go to Immigration every 90 days to show them my Bank Book 
3. 90 Day reporting - Irrelevant to me, haven't spent 90 consecutive days in the same country in > 15 years & I plan on doing even more travelling when I'm permanently retired

... of course I can get around all of these by:-

1. TM30 - Get Condo Management to do it (Will try to get them to do this on my next Trip, they already know I'm in & out of the country a lot) 
2. Bank Account Reporting - Switch to Income method, buy the TE 20 year (1 Million THB) Visa or see if I can get an agent to do it for me
3. 90 Day reporting - again irrelevant to me

... But I honestly find myself looking for negative reasons to make the move & eagerly read all of the threads that discuss other options with Vietnam, Taiwan & LATAM being of particular interest, could quite easily/happily live in Philippines (Used to have a house in Davao) or Cambodia but they're more of a "Tier 2" for me.

 

Lol, I decided I was definitely not making the move on Sunday when I got asked for my Passport when topping up a BTS Card that I've had for 6+ years but hopefully it's a one-off registration thing (I only had my passport with me because I was exchanging some $SGD), if it's not then the GF will have a monthly job to top it up for me.

 

 

 

 

Like you, I retired to Thailand to make a new life in a country that I considered, on balance, better than any other to suit my needs. I did this after visiting several S.E. Asian countries, deciding on Thailand, then exploring a number of options within Thailand. Finally, I rented a small house in my location of choice (Darkside, Pattaya) for 12 months without making any serious commitments. At no time did I read TV to help me make my choices.

 

My level of commitment grew slowly over the years and now I have a house, car, bike, all paid for in cash, and a loving family. I know that I have made the right choice and have never been happier.

 

I am already financially secure (company pension) and am about to receive an increase to my income (state pension). Happy days.

 

The only real change to my circumstances is the proof required to obtain my visa extension. Always obtained it via proof of income and will continue to do so. I have always imported north of 65k baht into Thailand every month so not a financial burden to do so. A positive to this is that I no longer have to apply for an embassy letter every year (2k baht+). On the downside, my method of importing the money is a bit more restrictive (SWIFT transfer vs. withdrawing with CC in bank) and slightly more costly (exchange rate + bank fees) but overall not a great amount annually. Also need to remember to update my bank book every month. A very small price to pay for my continued residence in the land of my choice.

 

As I report to Jomtien Immigration and have always informed them of a change of address, I have never needed to complete a TM30. Even before I moved here, I was aware of 90 day reporting, which has always taken me iro 15 minutes and is combined with lunch in a nice restaurant in Jomtien. I actually look forward to my 90 day reports, which aren't always necessary as I often travel outside Thailand.

 

Any difficulties I have with remaining in Thailand are created by the UK government not the Thai government. Withdrawal of income letter, jumping through hoops to retain my NHS entitlement and my annual state pension increase, to name but a few.

 

The majority of people posting on TV, complaining that the changes in immigration rules are forcing them to leave Thailand, appear to be US citizens. Despite the excuses that they give in their posts, it's my firm belief that many US expats visited their embassy every year, put their hands in the air and swore that they received a totally fictitious income. Now that they are no longer able to do that, they're screwed. Only themselves to blame.

 

I'm sorry if this appears to be an "I'm alright Jack" post, I don't mean it as such, I just thought that it needed pointing out that all the negative rhetoric, on TV, regarding the changes to immigration rules are just that, rhetoric a.k.a. B.S.

[Mike Teavee]

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Like you, I retired to Thailand to make a new life in a country that I considered, on balance, better than any other to suit my needs. I did this after visiting several S.E. Asian countries, deciding on Thailand, then exploring a number of options within Thailand. Finally, I rented a small house in my location of choice (Darkside, Pattaya) for 12 months without making any serious commitments. At no time did I read TV to help me make my choices.

 

My level of commitment grew slowly over the years and now I have a house, car, bike, all paid for in cash, and a loving family. I know that I have made the right choice and have never been happier.

 

I am already financially secure (company pension) and am about to receive an increase to my income (state pension). Happy days.

 

The only real change to my circumstances is the proof required to obtain my visa extension. Always obtained it via proof of income and will continue to do so. I have always imported north of 65k baht into Thailand every month so not a financial burden to do so. A positive to this is that I no longer have to apply for an embassy letter every year (2k baht+). On the downside, my method of importing the money is a bit more restrictive (SWIFT transfer vs. withdrawing with CC in bank) and slightly more costly (exchange rate + bank fees) but overall not a great amount annually. Also need to remember to update my bank book every month. A very small price to pay for my continued residence in the land of my choice.

 

As I report to Jomtien Immigration and have always informed them of a change of address, I have never needed to complete a TM30. Even before I moved here, I was aware of 90 day reporting, which has always taken me iro 15 minutes and is combined with lunch in a nice restaurant in Jomtien. I actually look forward to my 90 day reports, which aren't always necessary as I often travel outside Thailand.

 

Any difficulties I have with remaining in Thailand are created by the UK government not the Thai government. Withdrawal of income letter, jumping through hoops to retain my NHS entitlement and my annual state pension increase, to name but a few.

 

The majority of people posting on TV, complaining that the changes in immigration rules are forcing them to leave Thailand, appear to be US citizens. Despite the excuses that they give in their posts, it's my firm belief that many US expats visited their embassy every year, put their hands in the air and swore that they received a totally fictitious income. Now that they are no longer able to do that, they're screwed. Only themselves to blame.

 

I'm sorry if this appears to be an "I'm alright Jack" post, I don't mean it as such, I just thought that it needed pointing out that all the negative rhetoric, on TV, regarding the changes to immigration rules are just that, rhetoric a.k.a. B.S.

A fair & balanced post, didn't come across as "I'm all right Jack" at all ????

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The majority of people posting on TV, complaining that the changes in immigration rules are forcing them to leave Thailand, appear to be US citizens. Despite the excuses that they give in their posts, it's my firm belief that many US expats visited their embassy every year, put their hands in the air and swore that they received a totally fictitious income. Now that they are no longer able to do that, they're screwed. Only themselves to blame.

Read the Poll: Retired Expats in Thailand -- in light of visa changes would you recommend Thailand to new retired expats. And see if you still think it's Americans. 

 

I think you and many others may be influenced by one poster who has been posting threads encouraging expats to leave Thailand for the past 10 years.  

 

I'm sure that kind of consistency and constant negativity certainly has had some effect.  

Edited April 26, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Read the Poll: Retired Expats in Thailand -- in light of visa changes would you recommend Thailand to new retired expats. And see if you still think it's Americans. 

 

I think you and many others may be influenced by one poster who has been posting threads encouraging expats to leave Thailand for the past 10 years.  

 

I'm sure that kind of consistency and constant negativity certainly has had some effect.  

Far more than one poster saying that they are leaving Thailand due to changes in visa rules. Personally, I can't remember one that wasn't a US citizen.

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Far more than one poster saying that they are leaving Thailand due to changes in visa rules. Personally, I can't remember one that wasn't a US citizen.

We have not had a poll about how many have actually left because that would confirm that not many have left but that would really be the only way to get a real answer.  Although I must admit if one poster posts 1000 negative posts on the visa changes he should get extra credit.  Do you really remember the nick of one American poster who has actually left because of visa changes?  The vocal ones seem to have left years ago and keep coming back to post. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by marcusarelus