Welding Nubee

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

No, nothing that big. For this I'll always call the pro's. Just small things on the farm like fixing the gate's rail, structuring a frame for the passion fruits (well, this will be overhead...) etc'

 

12 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

The last 1 is the main gate rail fixed yesterday. I'll probably want to redo it once I get the hang of welding...

 

 

I remember that my first attempts looked rather similar, as I too was holding the electrode too far from the surface. I also managed to completely miss the area I was supposed to be welding. My first attempts were truly horrible.

 

Those could be OK as tack welds but you are not welding a bead yet.

 

my advice is

Use an auto darkening helmet and then you will have a much better chance of putting the weld where it needs to be.

 

Get a lot of scrap the thicker the better and use at least 2kg of rods practicing laying down weld, keeping the arc going and not burning through, before you try a real project.

 

You will burn through when you start getting a bead going unless you find some 10mm plate.

 

Make sure you have an angle grinder with a range of flap wheels as well a grinding disks.

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, impulse said:

Just to show the options in Thailand aren't as limited as some seem to think...

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/weldmaxx-stainless-steel-welding-electrode-wm-308l-20mm-15-kg-i9915334-s469580673.html

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/yawata-ft51-20-mm-x300-mm-25-kg-i125132841-s131198053.html

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/shop/lertvilai/?spm=a2o4m.pdp.seller.1.1fd96194oECiHe&itemId=125132841&channelSource=pdp

 

Without checking the preferred polarity of the rod you're using (DC+ or DC-), I would point out that the (admittedly cheap) welder I bought in Thailand came with the red terminal being negative.  

 

Thanks for the links. I have spent quite some time searching on lazada for the 2mm rods but could not find them. Have you managed to find any 1.6mm ones?

[gk10002000]

15 hours ago, CGW said:

& wear a long sleeve shirt else you will burn! 

Don't forget the Thai safety standards, flip flops, ray ban sun glasses, etc.

[impulse]

27 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Thanks for the links. I have spent quite some time searching on lazada for the 2mm rods but could not find them. Have you managed to find any 1.6mm ones?

 

I found some 1.6mm rod at one of the machine/ metal working trade shows at BITEC, but not on Lazada.  The vendor's physical shop is around Sathorn (they told me), but I never visited it.  So it is available.  But I also searched dozens of shops in the metals market in Chinatown and never found anything smaller than 2.6 mm. 

 

I also hand carried a few kg of 1.6 mm in steel and 308 stainless from China.  So you may find some on AliExpress.

 

I highly recommend keeping up with the trade shows at BITEC if you're interested in things like that.  METALEX is a great one, and there are a few others throughout the year.

 

http://www.bitec.co.th

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by impulse

[LukKrueng]

35 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

I remember that my first attempts looked rather similar, as I too was holding the electrode too far from the surface. I also managed to completely miss the area I was supposed to be welding. My first attempts were truly horrible.

 

Those could be OK as tack welds but you are not welding a bead yet.

 

my advice is

Use an auto darkening helmet and then you will have a much better chance of putting the weld where it needs to be.

 

Get a lot of scrap the thicker the better and use at least 2kg of rods practicing laying down weld, keeping the arc going and not burning through, before you try a real project.

 

You will burn through when you start getting a bead going unless you find some 10mm plate.

 

Make sure you have an angle grinder with a range of flap wheels as well a grinding disks.

I ordered an auto darkening helmet a few days ago. Hope to get it soon. I'm sure it will make things easier having both hands free and as you mention - having a better chance to weld where I want to as I too find many times it goes in the wrong place...

Today I have practiced a couple of hours and managed to get some beads done (not very long yet). At the moment I get beads only around half way through the rode. probably because my left hand is not free to support my right hand while welding

[VocalNeal]

Just a thought. How is your eyesight? Welding is a young man's activity. You need good eyesight.

Buy they do make magnifying inserts for welding masks ????

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

I ordered an auto darkening helmet a few days ago. Hope to get it soon. I'm sure it will make things easier having both hands free and as you mention - having a better chance to weld where I want to as I too find many times it goes in the wrong place...

Today I have practiced a couple of hours and managed to get some beads done (not very long yet). At the moment I get beads only around half way through the rode. probably because my left hand is not free to support my right hand while welding

Once you have the helmet, remember that your non dominant hand does not need to be with your other hand, it can be (probably should be, when you start) halfway down the electrode.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I found some 1.6mm rod at one of the machine/ metal working trade shows at BITEC, but not on Lazada.  The vendor's physical shop is around Sathorn (they told me), but I never visited it.  So it is available.  But I also searched dozens of shops in the metals market in Chinatown and never found anything smaller than 2.6 mm. 

 

I also hand carried a few kg of 1.6 mm in steel and 308 stainless from China.  So you may find some on AliExpress.

 

I highly recommend keeping up with the trade shows at BITEC if you're interested in things like that.  METALEX is a great one, and there are a few others throughout the year.

 

http://www.bitec.co.th

 

Good advice if I were not 600 km north 

[sidgy]

Thanks for the links. I have spent quite some time searching on lazada for the 2mm rods but could not find them. Have you managed to find any 1.6mm ones?

I found some 1.6mm rods at Thai Watsadu on Rama2 in Bangkok, although this was maybe 6-8 months ago , maybe try a TW if you have one local


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[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, sidgy said:

I found some 1.6mm rods at Thai Watsadu on Rama2 in Bangkok, although this was maybe 6-8 months ago , maybe try a TW if you have one local


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Nothing less than 2.6 available anywhere I can find in KK and Udon

[LukKrueng]

So... Today the guy came in and had a go at the machine. He cranked it up to 300amp and it worked great. I asked him shouldn't we follow the instructions as per the rode size? as according to that it should be 45-95... He said nope. If you use such a low amp it will keep sticking to the metal, but if you go up to around 300++ it will work well. I tried with 300 and was working great.

 

Any thoughts? 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

I tried with 300 and was working great.

 

Any thoughts? 

Well not without seeing a picture of a bead you have made at that setting 

[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

So... Today the guy came in and had a go at the machine. He cranked it up to 300amp and it worked great. I asked him shouldn't we follow the instructions as per the rode size? as according to that it should be 45-95... He said nope. If you use such a low amp it will keep sticking to the metal, but if you go up to around 300++ it will work well. I tried with 300 and was working great.

 

Any thoughts? 

Assuming a healthy 220V supply, the big question is what current is the $50 450A welder delivering when set at 300A.

 

High frequency DC inverter welders normally make striking and holding arc easy even at low current. A fault in the inverter could quite easily cause unstable half current.
 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Fruit Trader

[LukKrueng]

2 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

Assuming a healthy 220V supply, the big question is what current is the $50 450A welder delivering when set at 300A.

 

High frequency DC inverter welders normally make striking and holding arc easy even at low current. A fault in the inverter could quite easily cause unstable half current.
 

any way of checking it?

[LukKrueng]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Well not without seeing a picture of a bead you have made at that setting 

The 3 on the left 250amp, the 2 on the right 200amp

[sometimewoodworker]

55 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

The 3 on the left 250amp, the 2 on the right 200amp

That is certainly an phenomenal improvement on the first pictures what do they look like once you have knocked the slag off?

Are you using 2.6mm and how thick is the substrate? 

[LukKrueng]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is certainly an phenomenal improvement on the first pictures what do they look like once you have knocked the slag off?

Are you using 2.6mm and how thick is the substrate? 

Slag off.

2.6mm rodes. 

[sometimewoodworker]

9 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Slag off.

2.6mm rodes. 

Not too shabby, once you have used up the box of rods though not pretty very  it will certainly do the job, and the thickness of the base metal?

[LukKrueng]

19 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

and the thickness of the base metal?

2mm

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

On 5/8/2019 at 7:57 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

and the thickness of the base metal?

2mm

That is not bad for that thickness, starting and using a hand held or non auto welding mask, you have some porosity a couple of restarts that are not tied in and need to try to get your speed consistent. Once you have two hands practice and the picture under will help.

[CGW]

19 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

2mm

For arc welding you really should be learning on thicker steel, ideally joining V butts with multiple passes, it teaches you how to control the burn rate. What you are practising now is "Thai" style welding, its acceptable for the local market - depending on standards set, sure you will be able to join some cheap thin steel together, but near impossible to get good quality welds on paper thin poor quality steel, depends what your expectations are?

[LukKrueng]

3 hours ago, CGW said:

For arc welding you really should be learning on thicker steel, ideally joining V butts with multiple passes, it teaches you how to control the burn rate. What you are practising now is "Thai" style welding, its acceptable for the local market - depending on standards set, sure you will be able to join some cheap thin steel together, but near impossible to get good quality welds on paper thin poor quality steel, depends what your expectations are?

Well, I am not going to be a professional welder overseas. I will do small projects and fixes on my farm / house here in Thailand with whatever steel is available here. The scraps I am using are leftover cuts from the roof beams of my house... My first project (once I get the auto light helmet) will be a frame for some passion fruit trees.

[VocalNeal]

Have you actually joined anything together yet?

[CGW]

39 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Well, I am not going to be a professional welder overseas. I will do small projects and fixes on my farm / house here in Thailand with whatever steel is available here. The scraps I am using are leftover cuts from the roof beams of my house... My first project (once I get the auto light helmet) will be a frame for some passion fruit trees.

Ok, sorry - I was trying to be helpful, I thought you wanted to learn to "weld" rather than "fuse" things together ???? 

Good luck.

 

[LukKrueng]

6 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Have you actually joined anything together yet?

yes, not great though. I am waiting for my helmet to really start practicing on that...

[LukKrueng]

5 hours ago, CGW said:

Ok, sorry - I was trying to be helpful, I thought you wanted to learn to "weld" rather than "fuse" things together ???? 

Good luck.

 

I am grateful for your suggestions and thought - as of all other members replying on this thread. What I meant was that I will have to be able to work with what's readily available here in Thailand, and more than that with what's available in my area which is a remote location up north. 

[LukKrueng]

OK, a short update...

So now I can hold an ark pretty nicely. Started with high amps and slowly tried at lower settings. At the moment I feel good at about 100 amps but can also hold ark (for shorter time) on around 80.

I still find it hard to go in a straight line though, so when trying to attach 2 pieces together I tend to do short strikes and correct. None of what I connected so far is going to win any award for good craftsmanship nor any beauty contest but if it holds together I am happy for now...

I got my auto darkening mask which makes it much easier than when holding the hand held mask that came with the machine. Now I have to find some long +/- lines as the 1.3m and 1.8m that came with the machine are very limiting.

I am not going to weld any roofs or other important constructions, but I hope the frame for holding passion fruits I started to weld will be able to hold the fruits....

 

Thank you all again for all the comments and advise ????

 

[Dumbastheycome]

On 5/5/2019 at 2:11 PM, Crossy said:

Task A - Nip down to your local welding supply place and get an "automatic" welding helmet, it makes life sooo much easier.

 

Get some 1/4" scrap and practice starting and holding the arc, about 80A should be good with those rods.

 

No idea what "arc force" does, is the manual any help? Failing that set it mid-way and forget it.

 

I have a unit  with same  adjustable control but it is a  TIG/Arc  unit. The  "force " setting does make a difference to strike contact. Other than I have  no idea. Supply volt/amps makes  a huge difference  and for  serious work I run it  from a  grunty generator. The  household  supply  causes   fade  and loss of penetration at anything over  70  amps.

[sometimewoodworker]

11 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Now I have to find some long +/- lines as the 1.3m and 1.8m that came with the machine are very limiting.

I would guess that my machine came with about 3m and 4m cables, the earth clamp and rod clamp ends are very easy to replace but the machine ends look to be rather different and may not be at all simple and maybe impossible.

 

Welding cable it easy to find. How easy it or sensible it would be to join a cable I can't comment on.

Edited May 26, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[wayned]

On 5/5/2019 at 4:43 PM, Crossy said:

 

+ 10⁶

 

I learnt XX years back as an apprentice (arc and gas), it took me a considerable amount of practice to re-learn (and the pigeons still poo neater than my welds).

 

I'm okay with heavy steel such as farm equipment and have been doing it a long time but when I try to weld thin crap it ends up looking like Swiss cheese.