Thailand Out, New World in

[BritManToo]

Just now, madmen said:

1kg block of aged cheddar 350 baht,

Beston Cheddar, 350bht/Kg in Rimping, and it's pretty good.

[samtam]

I'm afraid to say I feel quite attuned to the OP's negative feelings about Thailand. In my case it's not anything specific that is depressing me daily. I have lived here for 15 years, and in great style and comfort. I don't go out a lot, as my home is a source of peace and quietude, which I enjoy. My feelings could simply be my own psyche going through its own change. The reason for saying this is that I do not necessarily see the grass any greener on the other side, and I don't know where the other side is. In this unusually long spell of high heat and the mostly accompanying smog, I think I long for cooler climes. But there are so many positive things about Thailand and the SWOT analysis is not bringing any obvious conclusion.

 

Climate change is everywhere, and manifests itself differently in other hemispheres, and when I see the weather reports/forecasts in UK, my idyllic thoughts turn rather lukewarm. The constant lack of application of the rule of law versus the rule of wealth is sad, but Thailand is not alone in this, and politics worldwide is very polarised; how the different scenarios play out in coming months and years will determine my next move.   

Edited May 10, 2019 by samtam

[madmen]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Beston Cheddar, 350bht/Kg in Rimping, and it's pretty good.

thanks for the tip, are they in Bangkok?

edit

looks like chiang Mai only

Edited May 10, 2019 by madmen

[totally thaied up]

15 minutes ago, madmen said:

1kg block of cheddar 350 baht

Have been buying on special for 143 baht

 

15 minutes ago, madmen said:

I shake my head when I see posts of ozzies complaining about Australia

Got one years supply of pension medicine today for 1500 baht. Real cost in Thailand is 17,000. Yep,  I shake my head as well now.

Edited May 10, 2019 by totally thaied up

[watcharacters]

15 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

One would need to factor in a universal cost of living increase no?  Price of cigarettes vs Western cigarettes prices.

 

Not the best of examples, is it now?

[watcharacters]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Beston Cheddar, 350bht/Kg in Rimping, and it's pretty good.

 

The only thing I dislike about Rimping is their lack of expansion outside Chaing Mai.

 

I wish they'd venture to other Thai cities as Villa did.

 

 

[jak2002003]

5 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

The only thing I dislike about Rimping is their lack of expansion outside Chaing Mai.

 

I wish they'd venture to other Thai cities as Villa did.

 

 

I get we all like different things, but for me I hate the place.

 

It stinks of rotting fruit (a lot form the durian they have in the entrance).

Most of the products are overpriced.. particularly the fruit and vegetables, meat and imported stuff.

When they reduce items its a petty amount.. like a couple for baht and a few Satang. 

The tills are cramped and no automatic belt to move produce alone.

The staff are miserable.

The music they play in the store is tacky and depressing.

They are claustrophobic with narrow isles and often dimly lit.

The stock seems to be just thrown on the shelves is a messy way, particularly the cheese section.

Has a lot of expired stock on the shelves.

Often no prices on the goods.

 

I prefer Tesco (modern and light and cheaper), and Topps market (has a lot of imports from UK which are usually cheaper than Rimping).

 

 

 

[connda]

22 hours ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Maybe I was a fool to think Thailand would be a good place to stay.

I don't think you or others are 'foolish', just under-informed.  You don't know what you don't know, and most don't see all of Thailand's warts until they get here. 
If I had it to do all over again?  I would have spent a lot of time on expat forums for different countries.  I would have traveled more.  I would have factored in the host country's immigration policies, like permanent residency before making a decision to settle here.  Because of the Thai government's recent moves to make living here more difficult, as well as looking at a future where immigration policy simply gets more repressive, I've now done my homework.  Had I done that homework 12 years ago - I would not be living here right now.
It's progressively becoming a real pain in the ass to live here.  There is no doubt that foreigner money is welcome, but that foreigners themselves are not. 
My recommendation to others?  Find somewhere else to retire.   Find some other nationality other than Thai to marry as nobody here will give a damn about you supporting a Thai family.  They will suck you dry and then show you the door - even if you have established a family.
Live in Thailand and you'll always be an unwanted outsider.

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Could have got 10%/year in a Cambodian USD account.

Old age being any time after 60 years old.

That would require an unhealthily narrow investment strategy at the time ..not to mention hindsight...

Ill health increases exponentially with age . The NHS (U.K.) calculates that on average the last 6 months of one’s life costs it more than the rest of one’s life combined. If you have to be in a care home for the last 2/3 years of your life it will wipe out substantial previous savings. His 16k would last a few months 

[CH1961]

17 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Racism? increased? Can't remember when racism impacted me here ??

Never impacted me too ... since 30 years ... but maybe if you are black or muslim ????

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, connda said:

I don't think you or others are 'foolish', just under-informed.  You don't know what you don't know, and most don't see all of Thailand's warts until they get here. 
If I had it to do all over again?  I would have spent a lot of time on expat forums for different countries.  I would have traveled more.  I would have factored in the host country's immigration policies, like permanent residency before making a decision to settle here.  Because of the Thai government's recent moves to make living here more difficult, as well as looking at a future where immigration policy simply gets more repressive, I've now done my homework.  Had I done that homework 12 years ago - I would not be living here right now.
It's progressively becoming a real pain in the ass to live here.  There is no doubt that foreigner money is welcome, but that foreigners themselves are not. 
My recommendation to others?  Find somewhere else to retire.   Find some other nationality other than Thai to marry as nobody here will give a damn about you supporting a Thai family.  They will suck you dry and then show you the door - even if you have established a family.
Live in Thailand and you'll always be an unwanted outsider.

All good points, but I want to add another important point.

In looking at the various retirement visa programs in the world of course an offer of a path to permanent residence or citizenship is a very important thing that people should be attracted to if they are thinking at all long term. Of course Thailand doesn't have that as part of their retired expat program and clearly NEVER will. 

But keep in mind Thailand offers (temporary) retirement status based on just showing money. The 800K bank method. It doesn't even need to be invested. There was the recent negative change basically mandating seasoning of at least 400K all year and also 5 (or 6 depending on enforcement) months at 800K, but that's new. Not all the retirement visa program nations offer a show the money option at all. Some do though and some offer investment options instead. Aside from liking Thailand that "easy visa" (not as easy any more) without the need to show any pension income at all was a big draw for me. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[Krataiboy]

16 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Should be an opposing viewpoint. 

 

I've been here 20 years.  Nothing has changed for me.  Maybe it will.  Maybe it won't.  Things have changed in America and I've done better here with my cash as I moved it to baht 20 years ago and locked in my expenses.  I like governments less and less and America is no exception.  I'm a semi recluse.  I only talk to dogs, hookers and taxi drivers.  They don't seem to have changed much.  Motorcycle taxi rates have stayed the same for 20 years.  Song Tau rates have stayed the same for 20 years.  My doctor went from 500 baht to 600 baht a quarter. 

 

I put 16k USD in a Thai bank 20 years ago and withdraw the interest each year and give immigration 1900 baht.  A taxi driver does my 90 day reports.  My pension has increased so I've a bit more to spend.  My wife's house will be paid off in 2 years and that will be a big raise for me. 

 

I keep some money in gold and fixed deposits and regular savings accounts.  Wife has a good job with contracts for the next couple of years. 

 

My grandfather died at 90.  Spent a couple of days in the hospital and died.  That'll be OK for me too. 

 I only talk to dogs, hookers and taxi drivers. 

 

Magic! 

[CH1961]

1 hour ago, totally thaied up said:

You should see what's is being fought over in Facebook groups.

Grow up, FB is not real life. 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

People can pick apart specific things in the O.P. for accuracy, but the overall thesis is correct -- Thailand's visa system has become too onerous, and the negatives of living here (pollution and costs, etc.) are trending in the WRONG direction.

 

But I must say there are no paradise options out there that are perfect either. So it does come to down to personal decisions, personal priorities, and picking the set of pros and cons that may be a better fit for you than Thailand. Also of course many will decide that staying in Thailand (or moving here initially) is the best choice for them too, despite the objectively negative developments. 

 

There aren't right or wrong answers on this for all. I hope that people can have respect for the personal decisions that people make now about staying, leaving, coming anew, or rejecting coming anew.

If one can't put up with an extreme annoyance for one day a year, one really should not live in LOS. An agent for that one event is probably only the equivalent of a few less beers or bottles of wine.

TM30, yes it's the house owner's responsibility, but who said life was fair?

90 day reporting. Really? It's not that big a deal, unless one is super sensitive about such things.

 

In fact, LOS as a place to live has been going downhill since the turn of the century, or even since Thaksin was elected. He certainly ruined the farang nite scene.

However, I doubt there are any better options elsewhere, if one takes everything into consideration.

I was happy as a sandboy in a very big pile of sand living a quiet life in Chiang Mai, even if I had to jump through the extension charade every year. Beat living back "home" by miles and miles. I've just exchanged some petty bureaucracy for a worse life given how expensive everything is here.

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Some people like much worse air pollution?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The  pollution doesn,t cover the whole of Thailand, where I am I dont see  any, PrachuapKhiriKhan, Chinese probably come here to get away from their filthy cities.

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, connda said:

If I had it to do all over again?  I would have spent a lot of time on expat forums for different countries. 

LOL. When I fell in love with LOS there was no such thing. The world was a far better place without the internet.

However, even had there been, I'd still have chosen LOS, and still would even now.

It's so diametrically different from western countries how could I not. 

Alternatives, Cambodia sounds too primitive, the Phillipines too dangerous, Laos- no way and ditto Burma. Vietnam- don't know enough about it, but if it really is like LOS 30 years ago, perhaps.

[Oztruckie]

Bit of a long post with mostly a lot of hot air, here at jomtien tm30 reports aren't required everytime one goes abroad, 90 reports detailed reports, what a load of rot, walk in get queue number, walk to counter 4,2 minutes walk out. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Oztruckie said:

Bit of a long post with mostly a lot of hot air, here at jomtien tm30 reports aren't required everytime one goes abroad, 90 reports detailed reports, what a load of rot, walk in get queue number, walk to counter 4,2 minutes walk out. 

Not all immigration offices in LOS are so easy. Try to remember Jomptien is only 1 of many immigration offices and some make it difficult with made up rules ie Chiang Mai.

[newarrior]

As everyone said these decisions are personal and vary by person..A good contigency plan, IMHO is to have property you own outright in your home country as well being of the costs and how to restart things such as Wifi, phone service, medical, dental, psychological etc in your home country, on short notice as needed.  Also-stay in touch with friends family and the news in your home country..We are all just visitors/guests here, there is no permancy here and we can all be tossed out of here on a moment's notice so plan ahead.

[madmen]

42 minutes ago, connda said:

I don't think you or others are 'foolish', just under-informed.  You don't know what you don't know, and most don't see all of Thailand's warts until they get here. 
If I had it to do all over again?  I would have spent a lot of time on expat forums for different countries.  I would have traveled more.  I would have factored in the host country's immigration policies, like permanent residency before making a decision to settle here.  Because of the Thai government's recent moves to make living here more difficult, as well as looking at a future where immigration policy simply gets more repressive, I've now done my homework.  Had I done that homework 12 years ago - I would not be living here right now.
It's progressively becoming a real pain in the ass to live here.  There is no doubt that foreigner money is welcome, but that foreigners themselves are not. 
My recommendation to others?  Find somewhere else to retire.   Find some other nationality other than Thai to marry as nobody here will give a damn about you supporting a Thai family.  They will suck you dry and then show you the door - even if you have established a family.
Live in Thailand and you'll always be an unwanted outsider.

The world was a different place 12 years ago. All SEA country's are slowly tightening their Visa laws and what looks ok today will guarantee to change in the not to distant future. The thing is all SEA has its good points but what Thailand does is pull them all altogether under the one roof and for this we have to pay extra.

[newarrior]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. When I fell in love with LOS there was no such thing. The world was a far better place without the internet.

However, even had there been, I'd still have chosen LOS, and still would even now.

It's so diametrically different from western countries how could I not. 

Alternatives, Cambodia sounds too primitive, the Phillipines too dangerous, Laos- no way and ditto Burma. Vietnam- don't know enough about it, but if it really is like LOS 30 years ago, perhaps.

Interesting I find LOS way too primitive, lawless, ignorant, lacking in critical thinking, the treatment of cats dogs is shit, the enviro and air going to hell, lack of morals or values here, no consumer protection, can't return things easily, medical and dental over rated...As of one my male Thai friends said, "Most people here are stupid and greedy".  he is asian and hates Asians himself and longs to the West where there is order, laws and morality. He's lived in Thailand, China, Canada, Hong Kong, the Middle East, Sri Lanka and finds Canada was far and away the best place..He can't relate to Asians--he's highly educated, Indian Thai and prefers the company of educated Indians or Westerners...

[newarrior]

1 minute ago, madmen said:

You don't know what you don't know, and most don't see all of Thailand's warts until they get here. 

Amen--visited here and all over Asia many times but living here and NOT having my old place in Hollywood has been a nightmare I would not wish on anyone......Visiting, even for months at a time so different..I plan to buy a condo back in the states soon and then decide if I want to rent it remotely or come back here...And you can't trust mos expats in regards to reality testing on the suitability of living in LOS...Most will deny how bad things are either to protect their ego or because they are in denial..the lazy expat will just say, "LEAVE" to his or her fellow expats which is lazy talk.We all know that moving, even if back to one's home country, and especially if one is older and is starting from ground zero is scary and stressful so some stay here despite the negative conditions here on the ground

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, madmen said:

The world was a different place 12 years ago. All SEA country's are slowly tightening their Visa laws and what looks ok today will guarantee to change in the not to distant future. The thing is all SEA has its good points but what Thailand does is pull them all altogether under the one roof and for this we have to pay extra.

Yes, true, any country can change their deal. I think people should be looking for permanent residency but people have pointed out that deal can be pulled too (though not likely). Then the next level is a second citizenship. 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Who are the "Thai apologists" who are saying that the pollution "isnt too bad " ?

Eveyone I speak too says that its terrible , as do nearly all TVF posters .

  Whom are you referring too ?

I've been on Thai Visa for a few years now, and every time that topic came up in the past there was a number of posters on here who suggested that the pollution was only a "few weeks" or wasn't that bad. All nonsense of course. However, this year, 2019, the apologists have not appeared ... which suggests to me that the pollution must be awful this year.

 

 

[CH1961]

9 minutes ago, newarrior said:

He can't relate to Asians--he's highly educated, Indian Thai

At this point no further reading necessary ????

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, newarrior said:

Amen--visited here and all over Asia many times but living here and NOT having my old place in Hollywood has been a nightmare I would not wish on anyone......Visiting, even for months at a time so different..I plan to buy a condo back in the states soon and then decide if I want to rent it remotely or come back here...And you can't trust mos expats in regards to reality testing on the suitability of living in LOS...Most will deny how bad things are either to protect their ego or because they are in denial..the lazy expat will just say, "LEAVE" to his or her fellow expats which is lazy talk.We all know that moving, even if back to one's home country, and especially if one is older and is starting from ground zero is scary and stressful so some stay here despite the negative conditions here on the ground

I also tire of the childish idiots whose only response to, at times, very sensible and helpful posts, is "leave then". The point of Thai Visa is to provide information that is helpful, like if you have breathing issues avoid Chiang Mai. No point getting butt-hurt because someone makes a critical comment about your favourite place ... or in some cases the place you can never escape from.

 

 

[sanemax]

Just now, AlexRich said:

I've been on Thai Visa for a few years now, and every time that topic came up in the past there was a number of posters on here who suggested that the pollution was only a "few weeks" or wasn't that bad. All nonsense of course. However, this year, 2019, the apologists have not appeared ... which suggests to me that the pollution must be awful this year.

I was/am one of those posters who stated that the pollution wasnt too bad , that was because the pollution wasnt too bad in the previous five or so years , it had improved alot and did indeed only have a few bad days .

   That wasnt "nonsense", that was the reality .

The pollution is horrendous this year , been bad for months now and that is the reason why none of the "apologists" have recently stated that the pollution isnt too bad this year .

   You didnt really think your reply through, did you ?

 This year is very different to the previous years , pollutionwise 

[madmen]

Just now, AlexRich said:

I also tire of the childish idiots whose only response to, at times, very sensible and helpful posts, is "leave then". The point of Thai Visa is to provide information that is helpful, like if you have breathing issues avoid Chiang Mai. No point getting butt-hurt because someone makes a critical comment about your favourite place ... or in some cases the place you can never escape from.

 

 

Its not a one way street

The serial bashers and we all know who they are deserve to be told to  F off and thats assuming they are even in the country

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, connda said:

If I had it to do all over again?  I would have spent a lot of time on expat forums for different countries.  I would have traveled more.  I would have factored in the host country's immigration policies, like permanent residency before making a decision to settle here. 

Wouldn't have helped me, 10 years back Thailand was easy, Cambodia and Vietnam were hard.

Today Cambodia and Vietnam are easy, Thailand is hard.

 

I guess we really need to be more flexible and not buy or commit.

Then when things change, we can too.

Edited May 10, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I've been on Thai Visa for a few years now, and every time that topic came up in the past there was a number of posters on here who suggested that the pollution was only a "few weeks" or wasn't that bad. All nonsense of course. However, this year, 2019, the apologists have not appeared ... which suggests to me that the pollution must be awful this year.

It's the worst I've seen in 10 years by a factor of 3 or more.

Before it was only noticeable for a month, now 3 months and still ongoing.

I've never felt I had to leave in previous years, but at Songkran I was happy to escape for a week in Saigon and a week in Phnom Penh.

Edited May 10, 2019 by BritManToo