Phuket Opinion: Recalibrating the retirement visa

[rooster59]

Phuket Opinion: Recalibrating the retirement visa

By The Phuket News

 

The section for Non-Immigrant O-A visas on the application form as available for download from the Royal Thai Embassy in Canberra, Australia.
 

PHUKET: The move currently in progress to ensure retirees staying in Thailand on Non-Immigrant O-A “retirement” visas have some form of health insurance has opened a veritable can of worms.

 

In announcing the new policy – which has yet to be brought into effect – Dr Natthawut Prasertsiripong, Chief of the Ministry of Public Health Department of Health Service Support, noted that “foreigners who are in their elder years staying on this type of visa have more health issues than other foreigners staying on other types of visas.”

 

That’s not rocket science. Older people anywhere have more health issues than younger folk, but Dr Nutthawut also plainly pointed out that the government is looking to unload the burden of footing the bill for medical treatment left unpaid by senior expats who didn’t have the money to pay them.

Full story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-opinion-recalibrating-the-retirement-visa-71468.php#3rZeLytseGXWvXbX.97

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-05-19

Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking Thailand news and visa info

 

[Andrew65]

...a similar situation in the UK with "health-tourism"?

[sfokevin]

55 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

Dr Nutthawut also plainly pointed out that the government is looking to unload the burden of footing the bill for medical treatment left unpaid

First the good doctor needs to explain the “business” practices they employ that allow 600,000 people to walk out the door without paying?... 

[GeorgeCross]

Quote

And here’s the issue. These are the same foreigners that Thailand invited by offering so-called retirement visas so that people could spend their golden years – and their money – in Thailand without having to work. The very nature of the visas offered targeted these people. And now it seems that the message is, “You’re welcome to stay while you can spend your money, but if you get too ill you’d better go home.” That’s not exactly a well-thought-out strategy when inviting older people to come. Older people tend to have more life experience and see through such paper-thin intents.

 

a valid point

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by LeungKen
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[ebean001]

please everyone...expats and tourist have a 'cost of doing business'. a country begs for them but they must understand the associated cost? I did the math on how much each expat needs to pay to fix the unpaid medical bills. shocking...the number comes out to 120 bahts per expat. I really would like the government to do the calculations.

there seems to be a better way of getting this 120 b than making everyone to buy health care insurance for about ... at least 6k per month. yes, it would make Thailand's insurance companies a lot of money but how many expats will leave. I spend 80k per month in Thailand. many of you do also. losing people to other countries does not make too much sense over 120b. please correct this number if it is wrong.

[sfokevin]

^^^ Totally Agree!

 

Someone need to inform the good doctor that we 80,000 long stay visitors are required by law to plop down 65,000 a month for the privilege of living here...

 

80,000 x 12 x 65,000 = 62,400,000,000...

 

The Thai government insures that a hefty portion of that ends up in their coffers in the form of many taxes and fees...

 

Compare that statistic to the 300 million you lost mostly due to mismanagement... aka 600,000 people walk out the door without paying... 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by sfokevin

[Changoverandout]

I wonder how many here that are over 50 are on O-A visas?

It doesn’t (at the moment) affect us on extensions due to marriage or retirement.

[silverhawk_usa]

3 minutes ago, Changoverandout said:

I wonder how many here that are over 50 are on O-A visas?

It doesn’t (at the moment) affect us on extensions due to marriage or retirement.

I was about to point that out myself.  As of the latest interpretation I have seen, what you say is true. Therefor the article is irrelevant by having its facts all wrong.

[sfokevin]

7 minutes ago, Changoverandout said:

I wonder how many here that are over 50 are on O-A visas?

It doesn’t (at the moment) affect us on extensions due to marriage or retirement.

The good doctor is gunning for you too...

[billd766]

37 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

^^^ Totally Agree!

 

Someone need to inform the good doctor that we 80,000 long stay visitors are required by law to plop down 65,000 a month for the privilege of living here...

 

80,000 x 12 x 65,000 = 62,400,000,000...

 

The Thai government insures that a hefty portion of that ends up in their coffers in the form of many taxes and fees...

 

Compare that statistic to the 300 million you lost mostly due to mismanagement... aka 600,000 people walk out the door without paying... 

 

 

Taking your figures as a base line it averages out to 500 baht per person.

[madmitch]

Oh no! Not another compulsory health insurance thread!

[Andrew65]

1 hour ago, sfokevin said:

^^^ Totally Agree!

 

Someone need to inform the good doctor that we 80,000 long stay visitors are required by law to plop down 65,000 a month for the privilege of living here...

 

80,000 x 12 x 65,000 = 62,400,000,000...

 

The Thai government insures that a hefty portion of that ends up in their coffers in the form of many taxes and fees...

 

Compare that statistic to the 300 million you lost mostly due to mismanagement... aka 600,000 people walk out the door without paying... 

 

 

• 'Normal' use of the NHS—by foreign visitors who've ended up being treated while in England—is estimated to cost about £1.8 billion a year.
  
  That's about 72 billion Baht per annum.

Edited May 19, 2019 by LeungKen
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[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, sfokevin said:

First the good doctor needs to explain the “business” practices they employ that allow 600,000 people to walk out the door without paying?... 

You do know that it's a mistake by TheNation, don't you? 

 

58 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Someone need to inform the good doctor that we 80,000 long stay visitors are required by law to plop down 65,000 a month for the privilege of living here...

80,000 x 12 x 65,000 = 62,400,000,000...

Not true. O-A (Long Stay) visa has no requirement to bring money in Thailand.

[LivinginKata]

I read both Phuket based media. One clearly stated required for annual extensions. The other stated not required for retirement extension.  Seems a contradiction to me.

 

As it happens I do have good health insurance but I never take the out patient option as it's just not cost effective. 

 

 

[smedly]

Last time I checked those on 12 month extensions now had to keep a bank balance of at least Bt400,000 12 months a year

 

Unless of course you use an agent to bypass the rules and bribe an IO  - which means this group of people likely don't have the money - go figure

[smedly]

2 hours ago, sfokevin said:

First the good doctor needs to explain the “business” practices they employ that allow 600,000 people to walk out the door without paying?... 

and also disclose his business interests in Thai health insurance 

 

also worth a mention - we assume probably incorrectly that this is aimed at Westerners/farangs

 

When I visit hospitals here it is mostly Middle Eastern and perhaps Chinese in the waiting rooms - don't see as many at the cashier lol

Edited May 19, 2019 by smedly

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, smedly said:

and also disclose his business interests in Thai health insurance 

Transparency? In Thailand? Pass me the smelling salts

[the guest]

Not sure why the government won't just make a blanket decision on all foreigners (including tourists) entering Thailand, by enforcing mandatory insurance as a condition to stay ?

[Just1Voice]

The way I am reading it, and I could be wrong, they are specifically targeting Non O-A Visa, which is NOT the same as Non-O Retirement. 

 

Non O-A is issued by your home country Thai Immigration, while the Non O is issued by Thai Imm in Thailand.  Two different types of Visas.

 

So, are they targeting the Retirement Visa?

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

Non O-A is issued by your home country Thai Immigration, while the Non O is issued by Thai Imm in Thailand.

No wonder people are confused if that's what you think

[Andrew65]

15 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

No wonder people are confused if that's what you think

Non O-A can also be obtained at an overseas Thai Embassy, no need for medical or criminal background checks.

 

Or that's how it used to be!

Edited May 19, 2019 by Andrew65

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, Andrew65 said:

Non O-A can also be obtained at an overseas Thai Embassy, no need for medical or criminal background checks.

I think you'll find a Non O can also be obtained at an overseas Thai Embassy, no need for medical or criminal background checks. An O-A always requires medical or criminal background checks

[Just1Voice]

The question is: Are they actually talking about Non-O RETIREMENT Visa?

 

[LivinginKata]

12 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

The way I am reading it, and I could be wrong, they are specifically targeting Non O-A Visa, which is NOT the same as Non-O Retirement. 

 

Non O-A is issued by your home country Thai Immigration, while the Non O is issued by Thai Imm in Thailand.  Two different types of Visas.

 

So, are they targeting the Retirement Visa?

 

Retirement is not a visa. It's a one year extension.

[Just1Voice]

4 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Retirement is not a visa. It's a one year extension.

If you can answer my question, please do so, otherwise stop nitpicking on a word such as "visa". It's very petty.

 

[Andrew65]

7 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I think you'll find a Non O can also be obtained at an overseas Thai Embassy, no need for medical or criminal background checks. An O-A always requires medical or criminal background checks

Yes, getting the 2 mixed up. Obviously a trip to Europe or wherever isn't needed either with the O. Penang or Phnom Penh ok.

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, Just1Voice said:

The question is: Are they actually talking about Non-O RETIREMENT Visa?

Thai embassies and consulates in Australia all mention "retirement" and "O-A" in the same sentence as O-A is a 12-month visa. An "O" visa is something different, generally but not always a 90-day visa (could be multiple-entry). My guess is that many people originally obtained an "O", traveled to Thailand then sought an "Extension based on retirement" at the end of the 90 days. Others traveled on some other sort of visa but then had it converted while in Thailand to an "O" and then sought an "Extension based on retirement".  Again I'm guessing but right now the majority of retirees started down or ended up on the "O" track, and a minority started on the O-A track. However O-A is becoming more popular simply because it is a genuine 12-month visa whereas an "O", even if multiple entry, only gives 90 days at a time and therefore needs a visa run if multiple entry

 

Hence in 2019 health insurance will be mandatory for new and extending/renewing O-As; 2020 will be another story

[Pattaya46]

33 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

Non O-A is issued by your home country Thai Immigration, while the Non O is issued by Thai Imm in Thailand.  Two different types of Visas.

13 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

If you can answer my question, please do so, otherwise stop nitpicking on a word such as "visa". It's very petty.

It's not petty. What you said is wrong ????. A Non-O for reason of Retirement is a visa that you get abroad (outside Thailand), usually in your home country (same O-A) but probably also available in some neighbouring countries.

An extension for reason of Retirement is something you get in Thailand and requires you have a O-A or O visa.

 

Edit: And yes, it's possible to "convert" a Tourist visa in a Non-O in an Immigration office if you qualify for Retirement Extension.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Pattaya46

[grumpy 4680]

      Has the Doctor a breakdown of how these figures for so called runners we're supposed to of been amassed, ie. O-As, tourist's. westerers, Asian, or even Thais.

      It would seem to me that Hospitals are to blame for their own failings, 

[Gecko123]

It would be very interesting to see a breakdown of unpaid medical bills by type of visa and by age group. The reason I am questioning whether a proper analysis has been done is because I doubt hospitals collect data on a patient's visa type at the time medical services are provided.

 

What about requiring insurance and proper licensing in order for tourists to rent a motorbike. There have been many stories about tourists belatedly discovering after an accident on a motorbike that they are uninsured. Surely, many who are caught in this predicament are at high risk of skipping out on unpaid medical bills.

 

Enforcing minimum automobile liability insurance laws on Thai people would also reduce hospital liabilities for unpaid bills. Why are foreigners, who only account for approx $10 mm in unpaid bills (a pittance), being singled out? Why aren't these liabilities being weighed against all of the revenues tourism generates?

 

And what about grandfathering of immigration requirements at the time you moved here, and phasing in these requirements for only new retirees who can then decide whether they want to move here? Thailand is acting like these new insurance requirements are a minor change like a condominium board changing what time the laundry room is closed. This is potentially a huge change, and it's unfair for Thailand to pretend like they didn't know many retirees planned to live out their lives here or that insurance, especially if you are 70+, isn't an enormous expense which people have the right to be made aware of at the time they moved here. Thailand's acting like: "Hey, we decided to raise bank deposit requirement. We decided to make you carry insurance. No problem for you, farang have lots of money. We decide foreigner have to file new TM-30 report every time you come back from holiday. No problem, farang have lots of spare time, right?"