Meeting with immigration about TM30 and the latest news about the petition

[wobalt]

I don't know how the reality was before before 1979 (when they introduced the current immigration laws), back then i wasn't even born yet.
But from what i've read i got the impression that back then most people who did stay in the country long term were able to get permanent residency after they spent a few years in Thailand, because nearly all of them came to Thailand to work (no visa option for retirees and working online wasn't possible)
So at the point when they made the current immigration act, most people who were staying long term in Thailand had permanent residency, only short term visitors didn't. This was the foundation for making the laws.
They didn't see a need to track people who stay long term, so the TM30 is only required for people who stay in Thailand temporarily.
 
After this immigration act was enacted they introduced visas for retirees, and people married to Thais., which allows them to stay endlessly in Thailand (one year at a time), but by law these people are considered to be in Thailand temporarily so they fall under the same regulations as tourists.
 
After 40 years they should just rewrite the immigration act to adapt better to todays demography

But they said that people who have a short term visa like a tourist visa are exempted to report ?


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[jackdd]

23 minutes ago, wobalt said:

But they said that people who have a short term visa like a tourist visa are exempted to report ?

Who said this?

If something in this direction was said, the meaning was most likely: The TM30 laws don't have impact on tourists, because they are reported by the hotels and don't have to do anything by themself.

Edited August 11, 2019 by jackdd

[Peterw42]

26 minutes ago, wobalt said:

But they said that people who have a short term visa like a tourist visa are exempted to report ?


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Short term visa's and stays are not exempt from TM30, a hotel would usually be doing them. They are impacted when they stay other than a hotel and go to immigration to extend their stay. Then they queue all day to do a TM30 and pay a fine.

[wobalt]

Who said this?
If something in this direction was said, the meaning was most likely: The TM30 laws don't have impact on tourists, because they are reported by the hotels and don't have to do anything by themself.

Look through the different threads!


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[wobalt]

Short term visa's and stays are not exempt from TM30, a hotel would usually be doing them. They are impacted when they stay other than a hotel and go to immigration to extend their stay. Then they queue all day to do a TM30 and pay a fine.

Meaning if they has nothing to do at immigration as usual they have not to do anything ? So they are easily not impacted

Other than a hotel means what ? How did they should know where you stay? Car, tent, your wife’s house? With a non O you never have to file a 90 days report, because you never stay longer as 90 days

 

 

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[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Meaning if they has nothing to do at immigration as usual they have no to do nothing? So they are easily not impacted
Other than a hotel means what ? How did they should know where you stay? Car, tent, your wife’s house? With a non O you never have to file a 90 days report, because you never stay longer as 90 days


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Other than a hotel is, a condo, an airbnb, a friends house etc. lots of tourists come for a 2-3 month stay and stay in condos, especially Europeans who come to escape European winter. Most tourists dont qualify for a non 0 visa so to get more than a 30-60 day stay they need to visit immigration and extend

[wobalt]

Other than a hotel is, a condo, an airbnb, a friends house etc. lots of tourists come for a 2-3 month stay and stay in condos, especially Europeans who come to escape European winter. Most tourists dont qualify for a non 0 visa so to get more than a 30-60 day stay they need to visit immigration and extend

Ok ,but they could get a METV in that case


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[Peterw42]

11 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Ok ,but they could get a METV in that case


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What is easier, a border run or visit immigration.

 

[wobalt]

Definitely border run in the wake of a TM30 BS


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[DrTuner]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

What is easier, a border run or visit immigration.

 

Depends. I try to avoid immigration like the plague, but obviously there's an IO at the border too. Easiest to plan the stays so the need to extend never comes. Like choosing another country to go to, f.ex.

[ChrisvS]

On 8/8/2019 at 1:06 PM, Mavideol said:

can you provide supporting (data) evidence, because saying something for the fact of saying something or anything it doesn't proof anything and we have been down that road already

I have spoken to an officer at Trat Immigration office and that is what they told/advised me. The value of the land is WAY more than the 800,000 Baht required. I have not done it myself yet as I have not formed a company yet.

[KhaoYai]

5 hours ago, Max69xl said:

The TM6 address are more of an initial planned address. Many people coming back to Thailand are staying in BKK maybe one night,before going to their home.

The address on the TM30 is your permanent address,a condo or a house out in the sticks.

The TM47 you only submit once, when you do your first 90-days report. After that you only show your passport with the the next report day-slip stapled to it.

So,the problem is the TM30-form depending on where you're staying in Thailand.

I agree, depending on my landing time, I often stay in Bangkok one night before going to my house. However, knowing that the place I stay at in Bangkok does not register me as staying there, I put my home address on the TM6

 

I am aware of what each of those items is but, given that the Thai authorities are unlikely to cease requesting knowledge of your whereabouts, would it not be better to bring all these together in to one report? A report done by yourself.

 

You may only have to submit the TM47 form once but you still have to report every 90 days.

[drbeach]

4 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Ah right forgot to mention nationality requires work permit history too. Not applicable for those with passive income, such as pensioneers. 

that's true.

[drbeach]

4 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Go there all the time for many reasons and they have never enforced anything for all the years of going. Maybe on the books, but maybe again only out in the sticks if you stay at someone's home as in general there are zero foreigners out in the sticks and it becomes well known a foreigner is in the neighborhood. Feels like we are in a zoo actually... Not sure about living there, but I don't think you have to report coming and going  from your place. I have had some hotels hold my passport and most all others do not. But, never scrutinized at all for anything there. Even larger hotels do not apply the prostitute law or not married law when staying as is an old stale law. 

I too have been going there for years, even lived there for a while. You're right, enforcement may vary. Even if it's not currently being enforced in your experience don't expect that to remain so forever. Things are not only going the other way in Thailand but also in Cambodia. Vietnam is still a Communist country so I wouldn't be surprised if they enforced the law more rigorously again in the future.

[tassieman]

4 hours ago, Martyp said:

I initially offered to do it myself and offered to pay the fine. She wanted to do it herself. After 3 weeks of waiting for an online password she went to CW, filed the TM30 in person, and told me not to worry about the fine. She also sent me a photo of the TM30 receipt. She is a very nice landlord. She sent us a wedding present when I got married in March.

 

Now that she has an online account I would prefer to have the password and do it myself. I suggested that but she insisted she wants to do it. She is being helpful and responsible. I don’t want to annoy her too much about this. I will see how this works over time and I’m sure we will work out an arrangement. It’s a work in progress but at least I don’t have an uncooperative landlady.

????

[lkv]

4 hours ago, Martyp said:

I initially offered to do it myself and offered to pay the fine. She wanted to do it herself. After 3 weeks of waiting for an online password she went to CW, filed the TM30 in person, and told me not to worry about the fine. She also sent me a photo of the TM30 receipt. She is a very nice landlord. She sent us a wedding present when I got married in March.

 

Now that she has an online account I would prefer to have the password and do it myself. I suggested that but she insisted she wants to do it. She is being helpful and responsible. I don’t want to annoy her too much about this. I will see how this works over time and I’m sure we will work out an arrangement. It’s a work in progress but at least I don’t have an uncooperative landlady.

Similar to when I was a kid, and had to report to mummy every time I got back home.

 

There is an easy way not to annoy her. Just don't travel.

 

Sarcasm aside, that's how I would personally feel in the above situation, having to notify landlords every time of my travel movements.

Edited August 11, 2019 by lkv

[brewsterbudgen]

You can always move to a province where immigration doesn't require a TM30 to be submitted every time you leave the province and come back to same address. It's one solution.

Not sure that works any more. In March some of our teachers were categorically told by Immigration at Chaengwattana (Section N) that a new TM30 only had to be done when returning from abroad. It now seems they have changed their mind, and one has to be submitted within 24hours of returning from another Thai province.

Who knows what to believe?!

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[Martyp]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

Similar to when I was a kid, and had to report to mummy every time I got back home.

 

There is an easy way not to annoy her. Just don't travel.

 

Sarcasm aside, that's how I would personally feel in the above situation, having to notify landlords every time of my travel movements.

Ha! Mock all you want and feel free to follow your own advice. At least I’m not battling with my landlady and I know what I need to do to prepare for my next 1 year extension.

[IvorBiggun2]

5 minutes ago, Martyp said:

 I know what I need to do to prepare for my next 1 year extension.

You think you do but until you walk through their door don't be so sure on that.

[onera1961]

4 hours ago, wobalt said:

Definitely border run in the wake of a TM30 BS

TM 30 BS costs only 1600 max, a border run is a wastage of time, more money and inconvenience for many people. I don't need to do TM 30 because I don't need to go to immigration office, but if I had to do, I would have preferred a fine of 1600 (max) baht over a border run. 

[wobalt]

TM 30 BS costs only 1600 max, a border run is a wastage of time, more money and inconvenience for many people. I don't need to do TM 30 because I don't need to go to immigration office, but if I had to do, I would have preferred a fine of 1600 (max) baht over a border run. 

Sorry, but I come to Thailand because i like to travel around.. In fact I don’t do a border run . I make holidays in different countries like NEPAL, Bali, Sabah or even China . It is therefore not a wastage of time and I can afford this. Additionally i have projects in Asian., where I have to visit my customers. I think many people do the same. so I can combine TM30or 90 days reporting with my work and leisure.


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[Martyp]

40 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

You think you do but until you walk through their door don't be so sure on that.

Which is why I apply 45 days early to deal with any unexpected issues that come up.

[lamyai3]

10 hours ago, Max69xl said:

You can always move to a province where immigration doesn't require a TM30 to be submitted every time you leave the province and come back to same address. It's one solution.

One of those provinces was Bangkok until three months ago, when they flipped 40 years of policy at the drop of a hat. Immigration is too capricious for this to be reliable advice. 

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

TM 30 BS costs only 1600 max

No, 2,000

 

2 hours ago, Martyp said:

 I know what I need to do to prepare for my next 1 year extension.

If you do then why do you do it 45 before the actual date? Because you cannot prepare for the unexpected. None of us can forecast immigrations next move.

 

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

Which is why I apply 45 days early to deal with any unexpected issues that come up.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by IvorBiggun2

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, Martyp said:

Now that she has an online account I would prefer to have the password and do it myself. I suggested that but she insisted she wants to do it. She is being helpful and responsible. I don’t want to annoy her too much about this. I will see how this works over time and I’m sure we will work out an arrangement. It’s a work in progress but at least I don’t have an uncooperative landlady.

I'm guessing she also wants to avoid the risk of getting fined through not reporting the movements of her tenants. I also wouldn't want to have to report to my landlady on returning from travel, this would drive me nuts - filing via an app is at least impersonal. In any event never personally met my landlady as she doesn't live locally, so it'd obviously be unworkable in many cases. 

[lkv]

6 hours ago, onera1961 said:

TM 30 BS costs only 1600 max, a border run is a wastage of time, more money and inconvenience for many people. I don't need to do TM 30 because I don't need to go to immigration office, but if I had to do, I would have preferred a fine of 1600 (max) baht over a border run. 

The Legal Punishment for not doing a TM30 is as follows:

 

In case of Aliens surrendering to the Authorities: Fined not less than 800 baht

 

In case of Aliens being arrested and prosecuted: Fined not less than 1,600 baht.

 

So if they knock at the door (and they have in some places in Bangkok), if they are as greedy as in Bangkok they will ask for 5,000 baht.

 

The picture below is taken from one of these meetings. What is discussed in these meetings, is how easy it is to report, and the penalties if you don't.

[elviajero]

28 minutes ago, lkv said:

So if they knock at the door (and they have in some places in Bangkok), if they are as greedy as in Bangkok they will ask for 5,000 baht.

Where do you get 5,000 from? The maximum fine is 2,000 baht.

[lkv]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Where do you get 5,000 from? The maximum fine is 2,000 baht.

If you "surrender". I.e. you go to them.

 

If they come to you, it's more.

 

I think I read some reports where they were asking 5K when they knocked at the condo door in Bkk, "negotiable" of course.

 

If you look at the picture I attached above, it starts at 1,600 onwards if "arrested".

 

That's taken from Richard's Twitter btw.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by lkv

[IvorBiggun2]

46 minutes ago, lkv said:

"negotiable" of course.

If it's 'negotiable' then you won't get a receipt. Refuse to pay unless a receipt is given. End of. 

[IvorBiggun2]

5 hours ago, lkv said:

In case of Aliens surrendering to the Authorities: Fined not less than 800 baht

 

In case of Aliens being arrested and prosecuted: Fined not less than 1,600 baht.

How can you get arrested for something that isn't a farangs responsibility to do?