Scooter Wreck and Passport Seizure

[intheheartoftheheart]

Got in a bit of a scooter wreck here (Hua Hin) the other day with a rental scooter and another scooter. Not my fault, etc. Other driver 'injured' and quickly materialized at the station (under 30 mins) with some pretty laughable bandages and hospital bills. 

 

I have a hunch this is part of a scam but won't go into it now.

 

Police confiscated my scooter and passport. I got the scooter back today but they've held on to my USA passport until the matter is 'resolved'.

 

I know, I know--it was stupid to give them the leverage of the passport but they took it for a photocopy at the station and never returned it. I was frazzled and wasn't thinking straight. Anyhow, they have it.

 

Had a meeting with the police and the family of the scooter owner today on how much I am expected to pay. Results inconclusive: I threw out a number they didn't like. I will get the insurance agent from the scooter rental company involved now but I am also in no rush to solve this--I do not need to be anywhere, or back to the office, or have any important deadlines that I need to deal with. 

 

Other than the 30 days I can stay here on my USA visa exemption. I would love to stay longer, actually. I was just planning on doing the same day back and forth flights for a few months.

 

Does anyone have an idea how long it takes for a civil/traffic trial to occur in Hua HIn? Just curious if I have weirdly given myself a few extra months in Thailand. I know at the end, regardless of culpability, I am going to have to pay someone somewhere some amount. Just trying to arbitrage costs. Will the Thais return my passport so that I can fly out and back? If not, that actually saves me money on plane tickets while I wait for court. I am sure the police are under some sort of deadline to get this settled before dealing with the paperwork of trial. 

 

I have read so many threads and chatted with so many people that live here about whether the police have the 'right' to take a USA passport. I am sure it is in contravention of international law, but that ship is sailed and they have it now. I can always play the consulate card, but wanted to see my options first. It's a civil case, or traffic law case, so they are obviously doing this expecting a payout.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated and thanks for reading this. 

[richard_smith237]

Frazzled? - Tired or Drunk?

 

If it was not your fault, why would you be expected to pay anything?

 

If you were not drunk and not at fault, play firm. You don't have to pay anyone anything. They can try and get money from you, they can use threats etc... but in the end not much can be done other than create an inconvenience for you. The reason they expect or think you will pay is because other Westerners have wet their pants and paid up.

 

Trial over a damaged scooter ?? thats incredibly unlikely.

 

Report to your embassy that the Police have confiscated your passport and are shaking you down. 

[SteveK]

You're over a barrel I am afraid. No matter what actually happened, you will probably end up being liable. Not sure why you handed over your passport, I guess in the heat of the moment you were confused. It's not illegal for them to ask for your passport, and if you hand it over then that's up to you, but a big mistake nevertheless. There's going to be a cash figure to get you out of this and the longer it goes on , the higher that figure will go. I think you will be surprised how quickly problems in Thailand will go away if 20,000 baht is offered.

[intheheartoftheheart]

Thanks Richard and Steve. 

 

They took my passport to 'make a copy' and then didn't give it back.

 

I offered 10k to the family today. They weren't happy with that number. I can try 20k as well.

 

Is it stupid to involve the insurance company from the scooter rental company?

 

 

 

 

[jvs]

How much damage to the motorbike?How high is the hospital bill?

Does the guy have a drivers license?Do you?

Is the bike insured?That should pay for the hospital bill.

[SteveK]

Yes - just keep it as low key as possible. Offer them 14k and say that is all you have even with help from your parents. This definitely sounds like a scam so I strongly suspect that they will take it as they don't really have any other choice. Just tell them 14k or you have to involve police, insurance company and your family and will have to start taking photos - they will change their tune fast. Motorcycle repairs in Thailand are amazingly cheap. As I said they have got you over a barrel.

[DaRoadrunner]

1. You rented a scooter that was insured. I would withdraw the offer you made to Police and tell the insurance company to deal with them.

 

2. Inform the US Embassy the Police took your passport and are attempting to extort money from you.

 

3. I doubt this would go to trial.

[SteveK]

2 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

 rented a scooter that was insured

Really?

[intheheartoftheheart]

They immediately showed up at the station with bandages after the accident. Within 30 mins or so after the cops immediately took my scooter away in a truck. It was actually fine aside from scratches. The cops never took a police report from me at the time. Only when I went back.

 

Today the family showed up with 7k of hospital bills. Said they need to return tomorrow for more checkups.

 

I have an IDP and US license. The kid that was driving the scooter does not likely have a license. No one asked, but that will be my next question. He's pretty young. Grandma actually had to show hers to get their scooter out of impound which was interesting.

 

Scooter has minor cosmetic damage. I need a new light in the front. They need various pieces of plastic. 

 

I can only assume the scooter I rented was insured. It was from a family business with 30+ scooters for rent. 

 

 

 

 

[DaRoadrunner]

6 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Really?

In the OP's post, he says it was insured. Yet now I read he "assumes" it was. Never assume. Have you asked the rental company for their insurance details?

[intheheartoftheheart]

To confirm, the woman I rented it from told me they were insured. But the process of getting her to bring an agent to the station has not yet happened. The police were very interested in where I rented it from and I played dumb and said I forgot the name, with the expectation that they would call her and try to get her to tell me to not involve insurance. Maybe a stupid idea, I guess we will see when I go back?

 

[madmen]

yawn. As usual big bwana can never ever be wrong in an accident.. Always a Thai scam

 

yet to read a single thread to the contrary

[intheheartoftheheart]

I guess I am saying, right or wrong, culpable or not, how long does it take for this to go to civil court?

 

The police were saying that is an option, I guess as a threat to keep me here now that they are holding my passport. I don't need to fly anywhere, anytime soon, aside from the flight to reset my 30 day exemption so I am not really sweating.

 

Or is there no civil court for traffic issues and this is just a pressure scheme to make me sweat and pay up?

 

 

[jvs]

What police station?Go see the tourist police,they are a lot better to deal with.

7000 baht for a few bandages is a scam,go find out what hospital and ask them to show you the bill.Keep smiling but stay firm.

Ask if the kid had a license and how old he is,do not pay anything until the insurance man has been there.

You should not have offered any money but tell them they will not get a baht more.

Did the police give you a ticket?

Get an estemate for the damage of the other bike,this will never be a court case if he was wrong.

Just tell them you will get a lawyer if they wont be civil.

[intheheartoftheheart]

No ticket given. No receipt either for the passport they are holding, which was stupid.

 

They went to the local hospital, not the fancy one. I took photos of the bills.

 

I will definitely ask to see the kid's license.

 

For the damage estimate: the family took me to their friendly Yamaha shop. To get an estimate on damage the people at the shop asked for 500 baht, which they would return after getting an estimate done. Has anyone heard of that practice before? I didn't pay and noped out of there. Will try for an estimate at another shop. Unless that is common practice.

 

My hunch is the local lawyers are in bed with the cops. I could be wrong. Lawyer is, I guess, the next step after insurance.

[intheheartoftheheart]

I have a photo of the handwritten incident log they xeroxed for me. But not a ticket/summons. Nothing formal.

[timendres]

12 minutes ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

I can only assume the scooter I rented was insured. It was from a family business with 30+ scooters for rent. 

That is a huge assumption, and not likely.

 

Also, reading your post, it seems like you believe that the police having your passport, and a potential court appointment somehow "extend" your time to stay in the kingdom. That is definitely not true. If you go over your 30 days, you will also be facing an overstay issue.

 

Finally, you may also find that "same day back and forth flights for a few months" is also an issue.

[richard_smith237]

If the kid was underage, he should not have been riding. 

 

Is the Motorbike Insured? (this surprises me). 

 

Do not hand money over, there is no reason to do this at all. 

I'm surprised that some guys are such babies they will tuck their tails between their legs and offer 20,000 baht when the accident is someone else fault. 

 

Report to your Embassy that the Police are extorting you and have your passport.

Tell the Police that you are reporting them to your Embassy for holding your passport without a charge. 

Tell the Police that you will be happy to go to trial, the other party was riding illegally (underage without a licence). 

 

(unless you were drunk) You are not in the wrong, you will not have to pay anything, but you will have to be patient and play the game until they realize you are confident and know you are not in the wrong. 

 

Be polite but firm, never loose your cool, never raise your voice, never get angry - show you are not intimidated or threatened. If you have a respectable Thai friend now is the time to ask for their help with translation (if you need it). 

[intheheartoftheheart]

Yes, I am not a long term expat. More of a 2-3 month every year guy. Few back and forth flights is not a long term strat, totally aware.

 

Thanks for letting me know on overstay fees if they hold my passport. Seems like a good money-making scheme...

 

Understood on the insurance. She told me verbally but nothing in writing. Not like that would be legit. I feel like a business with 30+ scooters would do it for their own sake but maybe a dumb assumption. 

[jvs]

Go see the tourist police!!!!Nobody ever gets charged for an estimate,official Yamaha shop?

 

 

[intheheartoftheheart]

Yeah the police had a friendly translator lady there that offered to help. My hunch is that she works for them. 

When I return, I will bring my own translator.

[intheheartoftheheart]

Haha yeah that seemed absurd about the estimate charge. They started at 500. I balked. They went down to 300. I left.

The police translator then told me I needed to bring the scooter back for 'scientific analysis of the damage on the scooter before trial.' I have yet to do that.

[jvs]

2 minutes ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

Yes, I am not a long term expat. More of a 2-3 month every year guy. Few back and forth flights is not a long term strat, totally aware.

 

Thanks for letting me know on overstay fees if they hold my passport. Seems like a good money-making scheme...

 

Understood on the insurance. She told me verbally but nothing in writing. Not like that would be legit. I feel like a business with 30+ scooters would do it for their own sake but maybe a dumb assumption. 

The rental company has a book for every scooter,there should be a tax paper on the bike,check the date if tax is paid they have third party liability insurance.

[richard_smith237]

40 minutes ago, SteveK said:

You're over a barrel I am afraid. No matter what actually happened, you will probably end up being liable. Not sure why you handed over your passport, I guess in the heat of the moment you were confused. It's not illegal for them to ask for your passport, and if you hand it over then that's up to you, but a big mistake nevertheless. There's going to be a cash figure to get you out of this and the longer it goes on , the higher that figure will go. I think you will be surprised how quickly problems in Thailand will go away if 20,000 baht is offered.

You get into an accident and your first response is to offer 20,000 baht, even when its not your fault ?

 

Agreed, mistaken handing over his passport - should have just said its at home, or he'll get them a copy.

 

I've been involved in 3 accidents in Thailand, never was money considered.

 

Also, the long it drags on, the longer the Police become aware that the Op is not threatened, thus the money will go down, until eventually they are fed up and will just let it go. 

 

If the Op doesn't have his passport back in a Week he could just claim it is lost and get an emergency travel document to travel home with (and leave within his visa). 

[Chivas]

Simply get hold of your US embassy and make it clear you're being extorted passport not returned etc.

Tell the owner of the rental company to get down the Police station along with insurance documents and let her agent deal with exposure.

You're getting involved and you dont need to. If the other rider has no licence its game over anyway

[jvs]

2 minutes ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

scientific analysis of the damage on the scooter before trial.' I have yet to do that.

Are you kidding?He used those words?You got the bike back and after that they want to analise the damage?

Hard to believe my friend.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Chivas said:

Simply get hold of your US embassy and make it clear you're being extorted passport not returned etc.

Tell the owner of the rental company to get down the Police staion along with insurance documents and let her agent deal with exposure.

You're getting involved and you dont need to. If the other rider has no licence its game over anyway

Exactly this.... 

 

The Ops primary Goals are getting his passport back and not allowing himself to get extorted. 

His Embassy may be able to offer advice on how to get his passport back, it was taken from him without his consent.

 

Next step Op: Call your Embassy.

[jvs]

I would start limping and also get a sore neck,who will pay for that?

[worgeordie]

What have they charged you with ?,you have not said you wont  pay for any damages

to the other driver or the bikes,so unless you were drunk,what are they going or have

charged you with.?

regards worgeordie

[SteveK]

I can pretty much assure you that you were not insured in the "Western sense" of being insured. You will have to pay to get this to go away, the quicker you do so, the smaller the bill will be. The only fly in the ointment here is that you now don't have your passport so they can take you for a lot more. A few scratches and damaged lights on a Thai scooter can be fixed for 1500 easily, ask to see the hospital bills for the injured party, I suspect that they are fictitious.

 

Of course, if you are planning on leaving soon you could request an emergency travel document from your embassy on the basis that your passport has been stolen by these people and then you could give them your middle finger.

 

Walk away, get your travel document and go home. They lose, you win.