UK lawmakers reject PM Johnson's request to hold an early election

[JonnyF]

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

If you mean May's withdrawal agreement, it takes us out of the single market immediately and out of the customs union when a solution for the NI border is found. (2 years by Boris's estimate).

The EU will never agree a solution for the NI border while the backstop is in place, simply because it is in their interests not to (because it keeps us in the customs union). A blind man could see that.

[grumpy 4680]

         The British voted OUT, it should be deemed illegal for MP's to have their own vote, The deal or no deal is irrelevant, it was just a ploy by crooked remainers to get their own way.

[mrfill]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And then there are the people who educated themselves about the facts about leaving. And many people discovered that the Brexit politicians lied to them.

I am sure you will agree that now, after learning the facts in the last years, the people will be able to make a much better informed decision than in 2016. That's great news, correct?

Who is scarred of listening to better informed voters?

I think of it more like the way many people thought Jimmy Savile deserved a knighthood at the time, but then the truth emerged and they changed their minds.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

The EU will never agree a solution for the NI border while the backstop is in place, simply because it is in their interests not to (because it keeps us in the customs union). A blind man could see that.

I f you look at the agreement (not the Beano) you'll see that they don't have the power to do that.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, grumpy 4680 said:

         The British voted OUT, it should be deemed illegal for MP's to have their own vote, The deal or no deal is irrelevant, it was just a ploy by crooked remainers to get their own way.

The UK is a parliamentary democracy. What kind of democracy do you have in your country?

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Actually the Remainers are stopping him making a deal, because they've taken away his trump card, his best negotiating tactic (No Deal).

No they have stopped him taking us over the cliff and screwing the country.  Yesterday in Ireland he said he really wanted a deal, before that he said it was a million to one that we would leave with no deal but has offered no proposals towards getting one.  He is lying as he always does.

[Bluespunk]

14 minutes ago, damascase said:

Do you really have no idea of what’s the EU about or do you just like to misinform others?

I take it that’s a rhetorical question. 

[dunroaming]

Here's an idea!  Parliament has been closed down for 5 weeks so how about we all stop talking about Brexit for the same period ????

 

Fat chance eh!

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, flossie35 said:

The cornerstone of our democracy is Parliament, which the leavers have tried to exclude from debate and have now shut down. A referendum is NOT a cornerstone as it is only advisory and leaves it to Parliament to decide. And Parliament is not obliged to take the advice if it believes it to be against the national interest.

"Not obliged to" but it did.

[MartinKal]

7 hours ago, stephenterry said:

I don't. Sack the ERG MPs, ignore the DUP, and get May's (amended) agreement back on the table with a few cosmetic tweaks on the backstop and it would pass parliament, IMO.

 

And for the vast majority it wouldn't make a jot of difference to their lifestyle, including posters on this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It wouldnt make much difference to the lives of ordinary Brits, or they'd continue to be sucked into subservience and vassilage to the Franco-German empire?

[MartinKal]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

"Not obliged to" but it did.

Flossie35, what you are asserting is incorrect. The prime minister of the day who called the referendum, with the backing of parliament repeated many times that the government woyld be bound by the result. Parliament voted for this.

Referenda may be consultative, but not this one. The people decided and unless you find democracy distasteful, you would want to support the result.

[beautifulthailand99]

27 minutes ago, mrfill said:

I think of it more like the way many people thought Jimmy Savile deserved a knighthood at the time, but then the truth emerged and they changed their minds.

lovely little anecdote - but that journey only took a few weeks to play out. 

 

[StreetCowboy]

14 minutes ago, MartinKal said:

Flossie35, what you are asserting is incorrect. The prime minister of the day who called the referendum, with the backing of parliament repeated many times that the government woyld be bound by the result. Parliament voted for this.

Referenda may be consultative, but not this one. The people decided and unless you find democracy distasteful, you would want to support the result.

That was just David Cameron's word, and he did little to follow through on it.

 

We have learnt from this Brexit campaign that there is little to be gained from relying on Tory MPs, as Boris and Mrs May found out all too publicly.

[Thingamabob]

Message to Labour. You can run but you can't hide. Sooner or later there will be an election and you will lose by a landslide.

[sawadee1947]

Tie him and then down with him into the ditch ????

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Message to Labour. You can run but you can't hide. Sooner or later there will be an election and you will lose by a landslide.

I doubt that there are many Labour MPs on Thai Visa. You're talking to yourself. I hear Nakon Nowhere gets you like that.

[sawadee1947]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Was he lying? 

When he is Not lying....? Probably only when he is telling his name ????

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

When he is Not lying....? Probably only when he is telling his name ????

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

 

[sawadee1947]

8 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The date of the election could have been easily mandated by Parliament for before the current exit date. 

 

If they Remainers were confident of winning they could have got a majority for Remain and extended themselves and taken power at the same time. But they know they'd lose, so the cowardly anti-democrats blocked the election (as you well know).

Oh dear, and I thought UK would be governed by democrats. ????

[beautifulthailand99]

20 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Message to Labour. You can run but you can't hide. Sooner or later there will be an election and you will lose by a landslide.

if Johnson gets the UK out of EU by October 31st if not all bets are off. The nihilist Farage will grandstand on Johnson's political grave.

 

https://britainelects.com/2019/09/07/poll-tories-will-struggle-in-an-election-if-brexit-delayed/

Edited September 10, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[JAG]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you understand the difference between binding votes and not binding votes?

It's not really that difficult. You could look it up.

Umh, it rather appears that "non binding votes" are ones that do not go your way. "Binding votes" however are ones that go your way - like denying a general election, which even Blind Pugh would see as the only way out of this mess.

[Mavideol]

the guy is full of contradictions, he keeps asking for an election and in Ireland he says """ you don't want and election, I don't want an election...."''" so what is it, potatoes / tomatoes or tomatoes / potatoes

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, JAG said:

Umh, it rather appears that "non binding votes" are ones that do not go your way. "Binding votes" however are ones that go your way - like denying a general election, which even Blind Pugh would see as the only way out of this mess.

It's coming and soon but not on lying Johnson's terms. Don't forget to vote Brexit Party for a clean Brexit.

[cleopatra2]

8 minutes ago, JAG said:

Umh, it rather appears that "non binding votes" are ones that do not go your way. "Binding votes" however are ones that go your way - like denying a general election, which even Blind Pugh would see as the only way out of this mess.

The last GE was supposed to settle Brexit.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

24 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The last GE was supposed to settle Brexit.

 

The last GE was believed at the time to be the annihilation of Labour.

 

It didn’t quite work out as expected.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[damascase]

2 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

         The British voted OUT, it should be deemed illegal for MP's to have their own vote, The deal or no deal is irrelevant, it was just a ploy by crooked remainers to get their own way.

So why do you still have a Parliament? Let ‘the people’ rule - whoever they are?

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

When he is Not lying....? Probably only when he is telling his name ????

What? You think De Piffel is his real name? It's got to be made up, who would call their kid De Piffel?

 

Mind you:

 

"Definition of piffle

 (Entry 1 of 2)

intransitive verb

: to talk or act in a trivial, inept, or ineffective way"

 

OK, I get it.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

    I believe British law makers are acting illegally, making laws and decisions just to suit there own agenda's,

Laws are made in the countries interest, and should not be just for themselves.

   So Boris needs to do more to act against those law breaking criminals.

This is true Brexiteer genius. 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The EU will never agree a solution for the NI border while the backstop is in place, simply because it is in their interests not to (because it keeps us in the customs union). A blind man could see that.

But remaining in the customs union was what vote leave promised us.

 

 

[JAG]

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Completely disagree with your final sentence. 

 

All johnson has to do is meet the terms of the bill preventing a no deal brexit and he can have his election. 

I'm not so sure. The precedent that an opposition, with a few government rebels, can deny a general election (even by merely abstaining) has now been established. The temptation to do so again, should the opposition feel that they may lose, and the government rebels are certain that they will lose their seats, will be great. I think that maybe this will be strung out for a considerable time.

 

The irony is that the more that the opposition and rebels are seen to be stringing it out, the more they will alienate the electorate, the more obvious it will become just why they are denying an election, and the more it is likely that they will lose. Frustrating for Johnson and his government, but also probably to their ultimate advantage.

 

I wouldn't mind betting that, if Boris Johnson wins a majority when the election eventually comes, next on the agenda after Brexit will be the repeal of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act !

 

A peerage for Mr Speaker Bercow is perhaps looking a bit iffy as well!