Is slow driving more dangerous than fast driving?

[ianezy0]

If I wear my turtle neck sweater, flat cap and smoke a pipe then I find that my Ute does not go over 40kph.

[Russell17au]

5 minutes ago, NokNokJoke said:

It

There usually is no legal requirement to drive at the speed limit, but there are usually requirements to be at the minimum mandated speed, or above, if there is one. On restricted access highways the minimum speed is often 45 mph, while the speed limit is 65 mph, or higher. Many large trucking fleets operate under the posted speed limits for trucks, and this may mean a 20 mph differential. You will only run into the back of them if you have your head up your butt or are a totally inept driver, and a majority of drivers are.
Thailand is worse because the unusual situations are multiplied. Last night I had a girl almost run into me on a motorbike, texting while riding, no helmet, and when she passed....no taillight. I drove 5 km in/out of town to meet a friend for dinner. Probably 5 unlit vehicles going the wrong way on each leg. On the return trip a series of 3 white passenger vans ran a red light....impromptu vip convoy without cops?

I expect anything, and when I don't see any craziness and find myself relaxing or speeding up.....I remember, and slow down. It's still out there.


Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

There is no written minimum speed limit anywhere. Here in Thailand trucks and buses have a maximum speed limit of 80kph on all roads that is a difference of 40kph on some roads but one of the things is that a truck or bus takes a lot longer to reach the speed limit. The biggest problem is that many car drivers do not stick to the maximum speed limit, they all want to go faster and that is not only in Thailand. IF every driver in the world obeyed the road laws there would not be any road deaths, these only happen because at least one driver has broken the road laws in some way. 

[NoshowJones]

One is as bad as the other.

[NoshowJones]

On 10/2/2019 at 7:16 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

It would be good if there would be some kind of organization in Thailand to enforce the laws.

I heard they do this with success in other countries all over the world. 

How many other countries send their police on inactive duties?

[JaiLai]

 
I guess I wasn't paying attention the other day, or rather, I thought I was but I still had a near miss. 
 
On the Expressway I was checking my mirror and doing a shoulder check (blind spot) to pull from the middle lane to the right most lane. The car in front was doing about 60km (not that slow), I knew my approach speed as I check my mirror and shoulder checked, but I couldn't change lanes due to the approaching car in the outside lane, which, regardless of my indication signal clearly showed no intension of slowing or checking his speed to allow me to change lanes in front of him.
 
The car in front suddenly slowed further (it was a battered, beaten up old pickup), it was probably doing 40kmh by this time - I had to emergency brake. 
 
 
In short: Any vehicle who's speed varies significantly from the surrounding traffic poses a danger. On the Expressway where the speed limits are 120kmh, everyone should be doing 110 to 120 kmh where traffic permits. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Why are you surprised, this is totally normal, guy in fast lane should not have to slow down to let you in, I wouldn’t.

I’ve also found anywhere I’ve lived or worked driving like the locals is the safest way to avoid accidents


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[androokery]

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Wrong. In a civilized world there is a law that states that you DO NOT CHANGE LANES UNLESS SAFE TO DO SO. All because you put your indicator on does not give you right of way to change lanes in front of any vehicle in that lane. I have spent 25 years removing dead and injured from vehicles that have been involved in accidents because a driver has the same attitude as you and you are in the wrong.

This is one of those situations where there are obligations on both sides. I would argue that most drivers who drive like a bat out of hell weaving through traffic with no regard for other vehicles do so because they are selfish idiots. But possibly, just possibly, the next one you encounter is driving like that because a child is bleeding out in the car and they are in a hurry to a hospital. It doesn’t matter. It is NOT your job as a fellow driver to impede their progress, blocking them in or forcing them off the road. You are supposed to make it EASIER for them to behave like idiots. It’s infuriating. But it’s the job of law enforcement professionals to deal with the idiots. 

But then there is the other obligation. Where you are entirely correct. It is your responsibility as a driver to make sure that any action you take on the road does NOT create danger for someone else. (Which, when you think about it, is exactly what the first rule is about as well.)

[androokery]

I still have trouble getting over the weirdness of many drivers in LOS being such selfish, oblivious bumholes in traffic, while at the same time seeing so many civilised, well-behaved individuals following all the rules in the Metro and BTS in Bangkok. 

[BRUFC]

 Richard Smith and Shy Coconut...reference your remarks about 'over the shoulder'. Devon & Cornwall Police ( that's in England for those with sketchy geography) run training days they call 'Bikesafe'. They (police motorcyclists) call it the 'lifesaver'. They are not wrong.

My apologies for 'hijacking' the thread about slow vehicles.

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, androokery said:

I still have trouble getting over the weirdness of many drivers in LOS being such selfish, oblivious bumholes in traffic, while at the same time seeing so many civilised, well-behaved individuals following all the rules in the Metro and BTS in Bangkok. 

and not all of those bumholes are Thai either.

[androokery]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

and not all of those bumholes are Thai either.

Which might be the case for some of the well-behaved people on public transportation too????

[Soundspeed]

An inflated sense of entitlement irrespective of speed is the worst attitude to have . Each of you thinks he is an expert. Heaven is full of surprised formerly " Naturally gifted"  drivers. How can you control a car if you can't control yourself? Relax, be considerate and above all act safely.

The purpose of the journey is to arrive safely nothing else.

[ross163103]

It's not so much slow or fast driving, it's the difference in the speed of the slower drivers and the faster drivers.

[Isaanbiker]

I'd rather get hit by a slow driver than a speeding one. To answer the question, it really depends on the situation you find yourself in. 

 

   

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[ChrisKC]

I have no problem with slow drivers, it is extremely rare that when encountering such a situation I have to wait so much time to overtake, that it doesn't try my patience. The danger occurs from the one behind that has little or no patience!

Edited October 6, 2019 by ChrisKC
typo

[richard_smith237]

9 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Wrong. In a civilized world there is a law that states that you DO NOT CHANGE LANES UNLESS SAFE TO DO SO. All because you put your indicator on does not give you right of way to change lanes in front of any vehicle in that lane. I have spent 25 years removing dead and injured from vehicles that have been involved in accidents because a driver has the same attitude as you and you are in the wrong.

No I'm not... On a UK motorway I indicate to change lanes, a car usually checks their speed to allow the vehicle to change lanes in front of them, I don't expect that or feel entitled that it should happen, but giving way and allowing another vehicle to change lanes in front of you is very common on the UK motorways. 

 

If it's not safe to do so, then I won't and generally others won't change lanes - thats hardly advanced driving, it's common sense. In Thailand the opposite happens, indicate and many / most / the majority of other vehicles will speed up to close the gap just incase you 'may consider' pulling out. Its a different and less considerate driving attitude here. 

 

I agree - 'do not change lanes unless safe to do so', but nowhere in any of my posts have I implied that I would change lanes if unsafe - a couple of posters have deliberately removed intelligent context from my comments in an attempt to jump to a conclusion implying outrage.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Why are you surprised, this is totally normal, guy in fast lane should not have to slow down to let you in, I wouldn’t.

I’ve also found anywhere I’ve lived or worked driving like the locals is the safest way to avoid accidents


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If I'm in the right most lane passing traffic and the car in the middle lane is indicating to pull out to overtake, what harm does it do 'not to accelerate and block them' ?> it is infact much easier to allow them out. If you chose not to do so then the issue is with your attitude towards others. 

 

 

 

[White Christmas13]

7 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Why are you surprised, this is totally normal, guy in fast lane should not have to slow down to let you in, I wouldn’t.

I’ve also found anywhere I’ve lived or worked driving like the locals is the safest way to avoid accidents


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

That's why 25.000 get killed on the road every year, because they drive

like the locals do

[canthai55]

https://www.motorists.org/blog/does-speed-really-kill/

 

"I ride my motorcycle at three times the posted speed limit — and nothing happens. Later that day, a driver doing 5 MPH below the posted speed limit loses control of his vehicle — for any of several possible reasons — crashes and is killed.

Did “speed” kill him?

Or was it because he wasn’t paying attention, then overcorrected after his right wheel dipped off the road?"

[richard_smith237]

18 hours ago, Vacuum said:

On 10/4/2019 at 4:12 PM, richard_smith237 said:

I expect 'everyone in the far right lane to slow down' ??? Where did I write that?

Here:

Quote

I couldn't change lanes due to the approaching car in the outside lane, which, regardless of my indication signal clearly showed no intension of slowing or checking his speed to allow me to change lanes in front of him.

 

Elsewhere I wrote that 'many' vehicles speed up to block you when you indicate to change lanes, but you haven't included or commented on that.

 

My point above was also to highlight the danger of the car suddenly slowing in front while my attention was dividing in checking my mirror and blind spot to make the decision if it was safe to change lanes or not - it wasn't, then the car in front had suddenly slowed further, presenting further danger - Hence my example 'Slow cars can also be as dangerous as speeding cars'....

 

However, you have avoided this point completely and have concentrated in a somewhat insignificant point of whether a passing car should give way or not.

Of course, they don't have to by law and why should they if their approach speed is much faster than mine?

 

That said, on the UK motorways it is very common for vehicles to give way to a driver who wishes to merge lanes in front of you (i.e. overtaking the vehicle in the second / middle lane) - being contentious of and accommodating other vehicles around you is safer, its courteous, its conscientious, its civilized.

 

 

 

 

[JaiLai]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Elsewhere I wrote that 'many' vehicles speed up to block you when you indicate to change lanes, but you haven't included or commented on that.

 

My point above was also to highlight the danger of the car suddenly slowing in front while my attention was dividing in checking my mirror and blind spot to make the decision if it was safe to change lanes or not - it wasn't, then the car in front had suddenly slowed further, presenting further danger - Hence my example 'Slow cars can also be as dangerous as speeding cars'....

 

However, you have avoided this point completely and have concentrated in a somewhat insignificant point of whether a passing car should give way or not.

Of course, they don't have to by law and why should they if their approach speed is much faster than mine?

 

That said, on the UK motorways it is very common for vehicles to give way to a driver who wishes to merge lanes in front of you (i.e. overtaking the vehicle in the second / middle lane) - being contentious of and accommodating other vehicles around you is safer, its courteous, its conscientious, its civilized.

 

 

 

 

It's also never gonna happen here, the only result will be it'll take you twice as long to get anywhere.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

It's also never gonna happen here, the only result will be it'll take you twice as long to get anywhere.

Agreed - you have to be a lot more assertive in your driving here if you want to get anywhere.

 

I don't agree with it, but I can't drive with my Western Ideals on the roads in Thailand. That said, if someone indicates to change lanes in front of me, I have no issues with letting them out in front of me. 

 

 

 

 

[JaiLai]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed - you have to be a lot more assertive in your driving here if you want to get anywhere.

 

I don't agree with it, but I can't drive with my Western Ideals on the roads in Thailand. That said, if someone indicates to change lanes in front of me, I have no issues with letting them out in front of me. 

 

 

 

 

That's a good way to end up with someone rear ending you IMO.

 

There's absolutely no point trying to drive like you would in the real world, another sure way to end up in a wreck, when in Rome....

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

That's a good way to end up with someone rear ending you IMO.

 

There's absolutely no point trying to drive like you would in the real world, another sure way to end up in a wreck, when in Rome....

 

Your take away from that is that 'someone could rear end me' ????

 

Sometimes the deliberate misunderstanding of ThaiVisa.com members in their attempt to find disagreement with anything someone else has written defies belief.

 

Now...  'coasting' and dropping 1 or 2 kmh to leave a gap for someone else is hardly going cause an accident, I think your exaggeration lacks a degree of common sense one would find essential on the roads which is a little worrying !!!!

 

 

 

[JaiLai]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Your take away from that is that 'someone could rear end me' ????

 

Sometimes the deliberate misunderstanding of ThaiVisa.com members in their attempt to find disagreement with anything someone else has written defies belief.

 

Now...  'coasting' and dropping 1 or 2 kmh to leave a gap for someone else is hardly going cause an accident, I think your exaggeration lacks a degree of common sense one would find essential on the roads which is a little worrying !!!!

 

 

 

1 or 2 kmph - lol.

 

Your immensly long posts are a little worrying too.

[NokNokJoke]

There are posted, minimum speeds on most limited access highways in the USA. Generally around 45 mph.

There is no written minimum speed limit anywhere. Here in Thailand trucks and buses have a maximum speed limit of 80kph on all roads that is a difference of 40kph on some roads but one of the things is that a truck or bus takes a lot longer to reach the speed limit. The biggest problem is that many car drivers do not stick to the maximum speed limit, they all want to go faster and that is not only in Thailand. IF every driver in the world obeyed the road laws there would not be any road deaths, these only happen because at least one driver has broken the road laws in some way. 

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[Scott Tracy]

Speed doesn't kill, nor does the lack of it. People kill. 14 people killed in Samut Prakan will testify to that. The lack of control of the vehicle caused the crash, perhaps exacerbated by speed and road conditions and the weight distribution in the back.Why

Driving quickly on an empty road doesn't take into account other people's stupidity of arrogance. Driving slowly, half in the bike lane to encourage others to overtake at inappropriate times and then pull into the main land as a junction approaches without signalling also doesn't help. 

Treat everyone else on the road as an idiot. Perhaps then we will survive.

[RocketDog]

On 10/3/2019 at 1:31 PM, johng said:

It's ok (not illegal)  to "undertake" in Thailand.

Mostly the  people I see U turning straight into the slow lane are the large tour buses or Juggernauts who "bully" their way across the 3 or 4 lanes of traffic + they need that much space to make the turn.

 

Waiting for a clear space in 3-4 lanes can take a while...but if there is a space in the "fast lane"  U turn and then briskly accelerate whilst watching ( in the mirrors)  for opportunities to move to the left.

Yes, I like your reasoning.

Actually the I turn implementation is intrinsically dangerous regardless of how it is used. There is no question that many accidents occur at these points.

 

I guess they are used here to reduce highway construction costs but long on/off ramps and more frequent intersections on the large highways, or J (jug handle) turns with automatic lights would solve several problems. These are common on the east coast in USA and don't slow traffic until someone actually uses them. Longer acceleration lanes for the U turns would also help, but many drivers don't like to make the tight turn to use them and that's just laziness.

 

But as always, these discussions must inevitably end with 'TIT'.

[johng]

When I'm riding my motorbike often I don't even wait for a clear space...just u-turn straight into the  narrow strip  on the far right..just wide enough for a bike  but I only do that when the far right strip is blocked from oncoming traffic by car and trucks trying to nudge out into traffic flow.

[mserror]

No. Kinetic energy (therefore braking distance and damage) increases with the square of the speed, so 80 km/h is 78% more dangerous than 60 km/h.