Choosing a bedroom AC and comparing SEER values

[JimShortz]

I have three small bedrooms (around 12 square metres each) to buy ACs for. I have pretty much decided to buy Daikin for their excellent reputation, unless someone wants to convince me otherwise?

My two Daikin Inverter options being considered are:

• FTKQ09SV2S for B10,560 with a SEER value of 16.66
• FTKC09RV2S for B15,990 with a SEER value of 20

 

Clearly the second one is cheaper to run with the higher SEER value, but by how much? I am partly confused because the second one has a "magic eye" function that allows the room temperature to raise a little if it senses nobody in the room. I'm guessing that this feeds into the higher SEER value, BUT since these are bedrooms and will contain people if the AC is on then this is essentially irrelevant. I guess what I am asking is does anybody understand how SEER values are calculated, and is it likely that for me the real world SEER values may be actually much closer together.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these ACs? Or alternative AC suggestions (high SEER and good value!)

I am pretty much sold on the more expensive of the two. I am in Chiang Mai and was thinking about ordering from these guys, at B18,900 including installation, piping, brackets, etc.  Is that a good deal? Anywhere else in Chiang Mai I should be asking?  (I want a local company so that I have somewhere to go if there are problems).

[bankruatsteve]

The SEER value is just a guesstimate ratio of energy usage over a time period for BTU.  Not much good for anything except to compare and hope mfg use the same guidelines to calculate.  Ha.

 

I think my Daikin has the "eye" thing - but I've never used it.  When they reach temperature, they cycle down to almost nothing anyway.  So, if that is the reason (probably) for the SEER difference, I wouldn't take the bait myself.  B3K for installation seems a bit steep to me but not outrageous.  Again, I'd go for the lower price.

Edited October 9, 2019 by bankruatsteve
spelling

[JimShortz]

I am beginning to think the lower priced unit may indeed make more sense, especially if I can get reasonable priced installation. I don't suppose you are in Chiang Mai and can direct me to better value installation?

Anyone got recommendations for good quality good price installation in Chiang Mai? Thank you  ????

[bankruatsteve]

Not in CM but maybe give the Home places a look.  They usually provide free installation along with a jacked up price but it could work out better.  

 

Just to add... You might also consider the smallest "inverter" you can find within Daikin, Mitsubishi, LG as it won't take much to cool that small a room.

Edited October 9, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Just to add... You might also consider the smallest "inverter" you can find within Daikin, Mitsubishi, LG as it won't take much to cool that small a room.

I think that they are already the smallest available at about 8500 BTU

[Poppadom]

https://www.daikin.co.th/en/wheretobuy/

 

We just bought for bedroom and living room. Forget about HomePro, Powerbuy, Index and the rest...

Ended up buying at official dealer in Phuket. Best price and free installation.

[tjo o tjim]

The SEER rating is a seasonally adjusted value looking at a varying outside temperature profile, and is a pretty good indicator of energy consumption over the year, especially when it is at part load conditions. The units run more efficiently at 30% than cycling on for 5 minutes and off for 10 minutes.  (This also provides better comfort.)

 

A SEER of 16 is very low, but if it is an inverter unit and the bedroom is only cooled at night it is not the end of the world.  Using a non-inverter unit in a bedroom is silly, as the load drops dramatically as the night goes on, but you want a fast pull-down to a comfortable temperature.  I doubt they are including the motion sensor in the SEER calculation, although if you enable it there should be additional savings.

 

Personally, a SEER under 20-21 would be a poor investment.

[Jeffrey346]

I  had the Daikin FTKQ12TV2S installed 3 months ago B17500.. My electric bill dropped 40%. 

I say go for the highest SEER you can get.

[Poppadom]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I  had the Daikin FTKQ12TV2S installed 3 months ago B17500.. My electric bill dropped 40%. 

I say go for the highest SEER you can get.

We have the Sabai II 15k btu in our bedroom, too. Unfortunately there were no better options for upgrade as one aircon unit came free of charge with the townhouse and we were offered a limited number of models only. I would have gone for a higher efficiency unit, and actually did for downstairs. Chose the Super Smile II 28k btu for the 29-30 sqm downstaris area

 

The Super Smile II line or the Super Smart are really good!

[Rawairat]

Be wary of free installation had a shocker from Homepro in Phuket, free installation and it was an absolute mess. Paid for another guy to fix it up.

The inverter models sound like a good idea, but I have heard that if it needs repairing, qualified aircon engineers are hard to find? Also is it worth replacing an existing unit with a inverter model, how long for the savings to give you a payback just using it at night for 6-7 hours?

[tpthai2]

Jim,

 

Try this guy.  Excellent English and work ethic.

Air Con

Charley

082-766-0426

[JimShortz]

34 minutes ago, tpthai2 said:

Try this guy.  Excellent English and work ethic.

Air Con

Charley

082-766-0426

Thank you. Does he sell AC, or just an installer?

...and thank you to everyone else for very useful input. I'm still unsure which way to go, being unconvinced that the higher SEER will in reality make sense vs the cheaper one - but I guess not a vast difference either way. Still thinking... ????

[transam]

I just bought an LG 9200BTU from Dohome where I live, a new model with twin inverters, which they say makes it cheaper to run, for 12,900bht, which included installation, which was free.

I was replacing a 12 year old Daikin 9,000BTU because they tried everything to get it blowing cold and was told "can't fix"...Hmmmmm....

Anyhoo, the LG is great...Google it for a read..LG IG1ORN.SE2..

[tjo o tjim]

16 minutes ago, transam said:

Anyhoo, the LG is great...Google it for a read..LG IG1ORN.SE2..

Any impact on your electric bill?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, tjo o tjim said:

Any impact on your electric bill?

Dunno, been in for a day.....????

 

Read up on twin inverters....

[JimShortz]

43 minutes ago, transam said:

I just bought an LG 9200BTU from Dohome where I live, a new model with twin inverters, which they say makes it cheaper to run, for 12,900bht, which included installation, which was free.

I was replacing a 12 year old Daikin 9,000BTU because they tried everything to get it blowing cold and was told "can't fix"...Hmmmmm....

Anyhoo, the LG is great...Google it for a read..LG IG1ORN.SE2..

That certainly looks like a very interesting offer, with a SEER rating of 18 and a very cheap price!  LG apparently make pretty decent ACs too?

[bankruatsteve]

51 minutes ago, JimShortz said:

That certainly looks like a very interesting offer, with a SEER rating of 18 and a very cheap price!  LG apparently make pretty decent ACs too?

Years ago, LG had a deserved bad reputation for quality.  Lately, their products have been top notch while still being on the low side in price.  I've also heard good things about their warantee and other service.

[gpreston]

I have had luck with Mitsubishi so far.  Just put 2 units in our new house bedrooms.  Both inverter models. 

Their website is mostly in Thai and there are no clear comparative charts given.  I did so research.  There are like 4 different 9000 BTU inverter models, from cheap to OMG, really?  The OMG really one has over 24 SEER.  But it's around 10K baht more than the next model down which is around 21 SEER.  On the plus side, and you guys in Chiang Mai should pay attention, they offer what appears to be effective air filtration.  So do some LG models.  They will clean up the air in your room.  You will need to clean the filters, but a good plan if you have respiratory issues.

I have a similar size, non-inverter Mitsubishi, only a couple years old in the Pattaya condo.  It works well, but let's compare.  At the 6 baht/kwh electric rate in a condo building and with lower efficiency, I pay about 1000 baht/month just for bedroom AC.  At a lower rate in the village, the total bill has been 900 baht, so whatever savings will be less.  The other thing is noise.  Non-inverter cycles on and off all night blowing cold drafts to bring the temperature down 1 or 2 degrees in a duty cycle hysteresis.  You get none of that with an inverter and it runs at a much slower speed, almost inaudible.  That sells it for me.

I am more concerned with the lack of care in the installer industry.  Anybody with mechanical skills, given the tools, can punch a hole in a block wall, hang the units, and connect the hoses.  But I watched the guy in Pattaya not evacuate the system before he released the freon to fill the lines.  I made him redo it, but doubt it was done correctly still.  I await failure.

The guy in the village actually had an old single stage pump and a broken gauge.  He said it didn't matter, he'd been doing it for years.  It requires a 2 stage pump and a gauge that reliably reads to 50 microns.  The spec is to pump down to a stable 500 microns before charging the lines.  No clue.

 

 

 

[Beggar]

13 minutes ago, gpreston said:

You get none of that with an inverter and it runs at a much slower speed, almost inaudible. 

If it runs at the slow speed does it still take enough moisture out of the air? I made the experience that low humidity is more important than a lower temperature - at least for me. One time I had an oversized aircon. Since the compressor didn't run long enough it was very humid in the room. 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Beggar said:

If it runs at the slow speed does it still take enough moisture out of the air? I made the experience that low humidity is more important than a lower temperature - at least for me. One time I had an oversized aircon. Since the compressor didn't run long enough it was very humid in the room. 

Our bedroom inverter AC is running extremely slow at the moment and the humidity is down to about 45% so I would say it definitely takes the moisture out.

[tjo o tjim]

Does anybody have any idea how the models compare on enthalpy control modes?  I know some non-inverter units are pretty basic (and ineffective) in that regard (minimum fan, cycle compressor), but not sure how the higher-end units control logic works.

[JimShortz]

Just to update on what we ended up going with...

I decided to go with the LG IK10R for it's relatively high SEER value (18), air filtration capabilities, and wifi control. The more basic IG10R can be had for quite a bit cheaper, but I really wanted the advanced air filtration for here in Chiang Mai.

The cheapest place I saw the IK10R advertised was Chiang Mai Air Care (B14,900), who show it as in stock on their website, but don't have any (still shows as in stock a week after explaining to me that the model is finished and they will have no more!).

Anyway, the only place I could find in Chiang Mai with real stock and a reasonable price was DoHome. I bought 3 from them at B16,400 fitted, but with an additional B500 each for the wall brackets that were not included. All good, very fast, efficient and professional service.