Retirement in Thailand… Too naive?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Is this real said:

I've asked this question for 10 years.  Never gotten an answer.

 

If you have B800k in the bank, only in your name, and you die, what happens to it?

 

If it is in your will, does it all actually go to the beneficiary?  Do you know cases, for sure, where this has happened?

 

In 10 years, I've never heard of anyone getting it.

 

If you have a valid Thai will, a bank deposit should be allocated based on the terms of the Thai will.

 

If you don't have a Thai will but have Thai family here, then I believe Thai law specifies amounts to go to the wife, children, other family relations.

 

If no Thai will and no Thai family members, I think it would eventually go unclaimed to the government (or some sticky fingered bank employee...)

 

[emptypockets]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

For now, the new Immigration rule only applies to people with O-A visas, and possibly/probably those on extensions of stay that originated with O-A visas...

 

Right now, there's no provision that's been publicly aired thus far that would allow anyone to buy their way out of the insurance requirement thru bank deposits and such.

The very first announcement mentioned insurance or money in the bank. Obviously its not in the police order, but it was mentioned publicly.

[Scot123]

8 minutes ago, marko kok prong said:

Sheryl,i have a few mil in the bank,so would that make me okay,it's all very confusing,i mean i can cover all med expenses as i have more overseas i am starting to get the feeling they just don't want us here,the 30,stuff now this,i mean i am 55 do you think i should do something now re insurance?

Mr 55 my advice is to look for a more friendly country to get old in. In the last 12 months there has been several major headaches for expats embassy income letters, 800k in bank account, TM 30/60 etc "or whatever it is" immigration police on mass turning up at your doo and this health insurance scam oh and let's not forget the magical baht that rises regardless of fiscal events like coups or shutting the country down for 3 moths, 70% of foreign companies leaving the country it keeps on rising. 

I would be thinking about what next.... Another coup most likely sooner rather than latter and this one maybe very bloody as 2 military factions fight it out for the golden goose. 

[MRToMRT]

1 hour ago, Scot123 said:

As an ex expat who left Thailand 7 months ago because being uncertain of the future "what next" is no way to live your life especially when your getting older. People forget so quick that in 12 months there was the Embassy letter fiasco caused by Thai immigration, the fall out from that almost on a daily occurrence to basically giving 800,000baht for 6 months to a Thai bank with 400,000baht gift to the bank for life. Any one who thinks this insurance scam will not progress to all long term visa is living in cookoo land. Do you honestly think the next 12 will be smooth sailing let alone 5 or 10 years time which is what retired people need "security". ??? Sad thing is when the next immigration demand/extortion comes along the same people will try to justify it. My family and I brought millions in foreign currency into Thailand and spent it supporting the Thai economy but you can only take so much and we left. Being away from the UK for 9 years living in Thailand  has given me such appreciation of home (the UK). Just had a 350 mile RELAXING and VERY Enjoyable drive in autumn countrysid (not one did anyone try and kill us on the road, no police checkpoints every few miles looking to extort money from you) . Good luck to all who are staying in Thailand but my advice as given to me, "always have an exit plan" and "never invest more than you can afford to losd/walk away from. 

You know anytime over the last 20 odd years I would have argued with you that I did not agree. But this last year I have changed my mind and am packing up as we speak also. I agree with you 100%, one cannot have a "secure" existence here, everything is on a persons (an officials) interpretation or whim. As I get older I don't want to live with those risks, especially as a retiree. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by MRToMRT

[worgeordie]

Will they be selling insurance documents on Khao San Road ?

regards worgeordie

[marko kok prong]

3 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Mr 55 my advice is to look for a more friendly country to get old in. In the last 12 months there has been several major headaches for expats embassy income letters, 800k in bank account, TM 30/60 etc "or whatever it is" immigration police on mass turning up at your doo and this health insurance scam oh and let's not forget the magical baht that rises regardless of fiscal events like coups or shutting the country down for 3 moths, 70% of foreign companies leaving the country it keeps on rising. 

I would be thinking about what next.... Another coup most likely sooner rather than latter and this one maybe very bloody as 2 military factions fight it out for the golden goose. 

Have been thinking of going back to Europe,but God,that would be the 3rd time i have shifted my whole life,plus i have two houses here,lord not sure what to do.

[Is this real]

TALLGUYJOHNINBKK:  I know what is supposed to happen, but, do you have any actual, first hand knowledge of it?

Not just was heard or talked about.

 

Thank you for replying.

 

[Liverpudlian]

1 hour ago, JusticeGB said:

Problem is different Immigration Officers will interpret this rule according to brown envelope rules!

I can go along with that ... been on the envelope for years here, corruption lives for ever here L.O.S  land of shape shifting.

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, bdenner said:

Here we go again! Hasn't this horse been flogged enough?

Just a few hairs left and we can feast on the carcass.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Matzzon

[Is this real]

9 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Mr 55 my advice is to look for a more friendly country to get old in. In the last 12 months there has been several major headaches for expats embassy income letters, 800k in bank account, TM 30/60 etc "or whatever it is" immigration police on mass turning up at your doo and this health insurance scam oh and let's not forget the magical baht that rises regardless of fiscal events like coups or shutting the country down for 3 moths, 70% of foreign companies leaving the country it keeps on rising. 

I would be thinking about what next.... Another coup most likely sooner rather than latter and this one maybe very bloody as 2 military factions fight it out for the golden goose. 

Any coup would probably result in things being easier for expats.  A new power group would want to make good with the rest of the world and probably need income.

[Is this real]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If you have a valid Thai will, a bank deposit should be allocated based on the terms of the Thai will.

 

If you don't have a Thai will but have Thai family here, then I believe Thai law specifies amounts to go to the wife, children, other family relations.

 

If no Thai will and no Thai family members, I think it would eventually go unclaimed to the government (or some sticky fingered bank employee...)

 

TALLGUYJOHNINBKK:  I know what is supposed to happen, but, do you have any actual, first hand knowledge of it?

Not just was heard or talked about.

 

Thank you for replying.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, bdenner said:

Here we go again! Hasn't this horse been flogged enough?

Hope the horse has insurance, flogging can leave some nasty wounds...

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, marko kok prong said:

Did Ubonjoe who actually knows about these things not state if you already hols a retirement visa,insurance is not mandatory.

Yes and other mods have been saying the same.. 

 

Fact is thats NOT what many offices, the central phone line, CW main / head office, etc are saying. 

In fact its hard to find an official that agrees with that position. Unsure why it is / was repeated with such certainty. I know goalposts move but you have to admit it and be flexible when it happens, expecially if your voice is one that carries some authority. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, Is this real said:

TALLGUYJOHNINBKK:  I know what is supposed to happen, but, do you have any actual, first hand knowledge of it?

Not just was heard or talked about.

 

Thank you for replying.

 

 

Not personally, fortunately.... But others here have, including Nancy L in Chiang Mai, who's helped with a number of different expat estates. You should check some of the forum threads on Thai wills and look for Nancy's comments.

 

[madmen]

Another 10 pages of cut n paste from the other twenty " they don't want us" threads coming up. God how boring

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

The very first announcement mentioned insurance or money in the bank. Obviously its not in the police order, but it was mentioned publicly.

 

Money in the bank was mentioned as a possible option early on by a MoPH guy, if memory serves, but then never seemed to surface again or make it into any of the final announced orders/rules.  And hasn't been mentioned by any govt official in any of the news coverage since the latest rule was announced.

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Airalee]

After reading the guys letter, I’m gonna have to go with naive.  After all, who moves a piano to Thailand?

 

Reading between the lines, it isn’t so much that he wants a “peaceful retirement in Thailand”, but that he has trouble accepting the fact that most forms of socialized healthcare don’t cover you in Thailand.  Moving here at 75 put him in between a rock and a hard place without an option to purchase insurance.  Seeing that his former country covered his healthcare here for the first four years (no mention as to what would happen after that period) and then cut him off, perhaps he could have had the rug pulled from under him.  That sucks.

 

I believe that just as every society is experiencing a demographic shift as the baby boomer generation becomes elderly, Thailand is taking steps ahead of what they see as a (future) potential crisis.  They do need to offer a better policy however as the premiums for 400k coverage are over the top. 

[Beggar]

I think retiring in any country without a social security net is risky. But even with such a net in your home country you might have to live a very poor life. Look that you have enough money to live an acceptable life until the end of your days and spend it wisely. And if the time comes that you can't pay for medical treatment you simply have to accept it. And it is also very risky to retire in a country where you have no legal right to stay.

 

Thailand is not the only country with such problems and restrictions. I would not recommend such countries for retirement but only for a holiday where you can stay as long as your financial situation allows it and also the visa requirements allow it. It might not be as long until death will part you. And this you should not forget and always think of a plan B. B like balcony - hopefully not... 

[Thailand]

1 hour ago, Scot123 said:

Using agents is a really big gamble, ask any diving instructor or dive master who used the agent on Kow Tow in 2004 (I think). One friend ended up in prison and banned from Thailand for something stupid like 100 years and scores had to destroy their passports and rush off to their embassies for replacements. The agent who was forging the stamps was sitting in his shop with the sign still high as if nothing had happened..... Bottom line using agents is against the law and for me the thought of spending one night in a thai prison kept me away from all grey area's... 

Forging documents/stamps and using IO's discretion are 2 very different things.

[Just1Voice]

O-A is NOT a Retirement Visa. 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

The agents will find a way around it if it becomes a cover all of retirement extensions. They are probably already working on it.

 

Simply going to cost more. 

Well I've been resisting their dark charms, but if the insurance requirement expands into my class of extensions, I just may join that club.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

O-A is NOT a Retirement Visa. 

Well it's something and a lot of the discussions have been centered on O-A visas whatever the hell they are!

[LivinLOS]

25 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Forging documents/stamps and using IO's discretion are 2 very different things.

But you never know what the agents do.. Either with or without permission.. You pays your money, you takes that risk. 

The exact same thing happened to me and many of my mates back around then.. Everyone used to just give your passport with 1000b in it, once every 30 days to an agent. 100s of them from Patong alone daily.. The passports used to to malay border, then some one obviously thought, why am I paying the immigration guy to stamp these, and either officially or unofficially a stamp was found or made. 

 

Same goes for any stamp you dont personally obtain, you just dont know. 

[LivinLOS]

24 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

O-A is NOT a Retirement Visa. 

"For applicants aged 50 and over who wish to stay in Thailand for an extended period without the intention of working" makes for such a mouthful though !! 

 

 

[Just1Voice]

22 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

"For applicants aged 50 and over who wish to stay in Thailand for an extended period without the intention of working" makes for such a mouthful though !! 

 

 

A-O is basically a 1 year extension of stay, but NOT a Non-O Retirement extension. 

[the guest]

Plenty of other countries to live as an expat, and cheaper without the hassle.

Thailand doesn't have exclusive rights to foreigners.

[Beggar]

4 minutes ago, the guest said:

Plenty of other countries to live as an expat, and cheaper without the hassle.

Thailand doesn't have exclusive rights to foreigners.

I think it should not be called retirement visa because it is not suitable for retirement. It should be called long stay visa. 

[RedPill]

8 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

A-O is basically a 1 year extension of stay, but NOT a Non-O Retirement extension. 

But both can be extended into extensions based on retirement ... so at the end, it's just wordings around.

 

I guess everyone understands when they read simply retirement visa ... 

[brokenbone]

4 hours ago, beachproperty said:

Does an additional 400,000 baht to the already 800,000 in the bank....qualify so no need for insurance?

no

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

Sheryl,i have a few mil in the bank,so would that make me okay,it's all very confusing,i mean i can cover all med expenses as i have more overseas i am starting to get the feeling they just don't want us here,the tm30,stuff now this,i mean i am 55 do you think i should do something now re insurance?

 

As it currently stands there is no money in the bank alternative to having insurance. That is going to become a huge problem as the policies on offer fro mthe companies listed by Imm will not enroll anyone over age 75, and there will also be people under that age who are denied because of pre-exisitng conditions.

 

This aside you should not be here uninsured, even with several million in the bank unless you are fine with losing it in one fell swoop and able to immediately replenish it.

 

At 55 you have a lot of options; now is the time to lock into a policy that guarantees lifetime renewal. 

 

Options will be less say when you turn 60, or if even before then you develop any pre-exisitng conditions. I suggest you contact a broker familiar with expat policies and also with the new Imm requirements. Personally I use AA.