BREAKING NEWS EU grants UK a Brexit extension until 31 January 2020

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

That being the case the result of the referendum should be declared invalid, the question on the ballot paper came from the Electoral Commission not a Referendum Commission..

Of course you are wrong, both come under the Elections and Referendums Act 2000 and any breach of the ECs rules on voting is Electoral Fraud.

You've been in Thailand too long when you start invoking the all-powerful sanctity of Electoral Commissions... but I digress.

 

How come the referendum counting areas weren't structured on the exact same constituency boundaries as regular elections? The EU Referendum Act passed by Parliament in 2015 divided the United Kingdom into 382 official counting areas (which are the same as local authority areas), 327 of which are in England, 22 in Wales and 32 in Scotland whereas the United Kingdom Parliament currently has a total of 650 Parliamentary constituencies across these 4 constituent countries?

[Jip99]

12 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

And let's direct that at the current shower in government as well.  I suspect each side will promise the world and deliver nothing.

 

I don’t think any of them deserve our votes.

 

But I guess I will have to choose the party least likely to screw up in the future. Also, I don’t wish to see a repetition of a minority government - or one that can be held to ransom by a handful MPs with whom you have little affinity.

 

In fairness, my local MP has voted consistently with the government, and in line with the mandate from her constituents. Looks like I will vote Conservative. As a Brexiteer I have only one other choice but as I have a preference for leaving the EU with a deal then the Brexit Party loses out. The Brexit Party is also untested on non-Brexit matters and whilst I am not 100% confident in the Tories, I do believe that they have the best chance of sorting themselves out.

 

Brexit apart, I could never vote for a Corbyn led Labour Party and the Lib Dems offer me nothing, absolutely nothing, they are as exciting as dish water.

[dunroaming]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

I don’t think any of them deserve our votes.

 

But I guess I will have to choose the party least likely to screw up in the future. Also, I don’t wish to see a repetition of a minority government - or one that can be held to ransom by a handful MPs with whom you have little affinity.

 

In fairness, my local MP has voted consistently with the government, and in line with the mandate from her constituents. Looks like I will vote Conservative. As a Brexiteer I have only one other choice but as I have a preference for leaving the EU with a deal then the Brexit Party loses out. The Brexit Party is also untested on non-Brexit matters and whilst I am not 100% confident in the Tories, I do believe that they have the best chance of sorting themselves out.

 

Brexit apart, I could never vote for a Corbyn led Labour Party and the Lib Dems offer me nothing, absolutely nothing, they are as exciting as dish water.

It will be interesting to see the turnout.  In theory it should very high given the depth of feeling in the country but apparently quite a few people just can't bring themselves to vote for any of this lot and are likely to just stay home in the warm.  It's an easy call for me as my local MP is Raab and I would sooner die in a ditch than vote for him (????).  But I live in Tory heartland so it is likely he will get re-elected albeit with a reduced majority.  Mind you in the European elections in May the Conservatives were beaten into third place with the Lib Dems winning and getting three times the Conservative vote, so there is so hope.

 

I also couldn't vote for a Corbyn's Labour Party.  I probably will vote Lib Dem because locally they just might have a chance.  In the past I wouldn't have but whoever I vote for now it will be through gritted teeth.  I couldn't vote for Johnson in a million years.  I do think it's hard to call at the moment

[dunroaming]

What will also be interesting is who will the constituents of the Tory MP's who are pro-remain vote for?  I mean the one's who voted leave and now feel that their Tory MP has betrayed them.  Surely they must vote for the Brexit Party?  Cat amongst pigeons there and obviously costly for Conservative seats.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

For a citation, there have been numerous links posted on here, but try looking up the Electoral Commission, they are the ones who described the fraud as "most serious".

And various parties, groups and individuals were fined quite heavily for what amounts to rubbish accounting. Only Labour Brexiteer Lord Adonis considered that this malfeasance could have skewed the 'close' referendum result, but nobody else in either House picked up that baton and ran with it so it was passed to the Met and the National Crime Agency for investigation. In the meantime certain private parties sued the EC in High Court citing that they had unlawfully tilted the playing field in favor of leave.

 

"On 13 September 2019, the Metropolitan Police concluded that while "it is clear that whilst some technical breaches of electoral law were committed by Leave.EU in respect of the spending return submitted for their campaign, there is insufficient evidence to justify any further criminal investigation", and on 24 September 2019, the National Crime Agency said it had found no evidence of criminality in respect of the issues raised by the Electoral Commission and that no further action would be taken."

 

Thanks!

NL

 

[elliss]

12 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

 

I don't expect Corbyn to be their leader come election time in Spring.

 

 

 

 

            Really, how will this happen .  Name Names ..

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by elliss

[nauseus]

57 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

            Really, how will this happen .  Name Names ..

 

 

Abbott and Costello?

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

That cuts both ways. Kate Hoey, long time MP for Vauxhall. Vauxhall voted 78% remain. Lab voters nationally voted 65% remain. Hoey has consistently voted pro Brexit. To cap it all, during the debate on banning foxhunting, the MP for VAUXHALL voted pro foxhunting. Representing her constituents? Yea right!

 

 

What's fox hunting got to do with it?at least she honoured the results of the referendum.

[kingdong]

3 hours ago, elliss said:

 

            Really, how will this happen .  Name Names ..

 

 

He isn,t now he's just the monkey,o,Donalls the organ grinder,that mob get in watch the pound collapse.

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Well certainly not those who promised that Brexit would be the easiest deal ever or the fantasy amount on the side of the bus or "We will leave on the 31st October deal or no-deal" or Europe needs us more than we need them or...……  The list is endless.

 

The MPs not prepared to take us over the cliff are the one's protecting their constituents who fell for all the blather and lies in the first case.

How could it have been the easiest deal ever with !iller,benn,and all the traitors in parliament who think they,'re above democracy?

[DannyCarlton]

4 hours ago, elliss said:

 

            Really, how will this happen .  Name Names ..

 

 

Now that we have a December election, we are stuck with Corbyn until after the election. If Labour forms the next government, Corbyn will remain. If not, he's out on his backside. My vote would be for Kier Starmer.

[DannyCarlton]

22 minutes ago, kingdong said:

He isn,t now he's just the monkey,o,Donalls the organ grinder,that mob get in watch the pound collapse.

The organ grinder is, and always has been, since Corbyn came to power, John Lansman, founder and leader of Momentum. Labour's Dominic Cummings.

[DannyCarlton]

29 minutes ago, kingdong said:

What's fox hunting got to do with it?at least she honoured the results of the referendum.

It's an illustration that even remainers can be stuffed by their MPs. Her constituents were strongly remain, her constituents were anti foxhunting, Labour voters were, remain in the majority, Labour voters were strongly anti foxhunting. She consistently voted against the will of her constituents and her party.

 

Luckily for her constituents, she's standing down for this election.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

What's fox hunting got to do with it?at least she honoured the results of the referendum.

 

Kate hoy? not bad for a MP

 

will she survive the coming snap?

 

[yodsak]

     438 / 20.    We have an election 12th Dec. Will Boris win an outright majority ?  Bookies say he will. 

Voter volatility is high. 

 

I think you can predict this one Tony.

[Blue Muton]

On 10/29/2019 at 7:29 AM, NanLaew said:

And various parties, groups and individuals were fined quite heavily for what amounts to rubbish accounting. Only Labour Brexiteer Lord Adonis considered that this malfeasance could have skewed the 'close' referendum result, but nobody else in either House picked up that baton and ran with it so it was passed to the Met and the National Crime Agency for investigation. In the meantime certain private parties sued the EC in High Court citing that they had unlawfully tilted the playing field in favor of leave.

 

"On 13 September 2019, the Metropolitan Police concluded that while "it is clear that whilst some technical breaches of electoral law were committed by Leave.EU in respect of the spending return submitted for their campaign, there is insufficient evidence to justify any further criminal investigation", and on 24 September 2019, the National Crime Agency said it had found no evidence of criminality in respect of the issues raised by the Electoral Commission and that no further action would be taken."

 

Thanks!

NL

 

That was a criminal case, not the instances where they were found guilty of commiting electoral fraud, you seem to be very confused about things.

 

I directed you to the Electoral Commission but you chose not to check that, here's a quote taken directly from their website:

 

Vote Leave has today (Friday 29 March 2019) dropped its appeal and related proceedings against the Electoral Commission.

An Electoral Commission spokesperson said:

Vote Leave has today (Friday 29 March 2019) withdrawn its appeal and related proceedings against the Electoral Commission’s finding of multiple offences under electoral law, committed during the 2016 EU referendum campaign.

Vote Leave was the designated lead campaigner for the leave outcome at the referendum. We found that it broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness, confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event. Serious offences such as these undermine public confidence in our system and it is vital, therefore, that they are properly investigated and sanctioned.

Vote Leave has now paid its £61,000 fine in full.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

But why should leavers have to accept anything, when remainers can't even accept the result of the referendum?

 

Closet remainer? Right. 

Well spotted, didn't actually write what I meant, should have been

"At the end of the day those that voted to leave have to live with what they get whether it is Trump in Y-fronts or not."

"Live with" and "accept", separate concepts.

The Eurosceptics never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum, but of course that would be different. In the same way people can campaign to remain or rejoin if they so chose.

Do people ask for a second opinion before or after the amputation.

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, NanLaew said:

How come the referendum counting areas weren't structured on the exact same constituency boundaries as regular elections? The EU Referendum Act passed by Parliament in 2015 divided the United Kingdom into 382 official counting areas (which are the same as local authority areas), 327 of which are in England, 22 in Wales and 32 in Scotland whereas the United Kingdom Parliament currently has a total of 650 Parliamentary constituencies across these 4 constituent countries?

Why not do your own homework?

 

Our role in referendums is different to our role in elections. Although we don’t run elections, we do run national referendums held under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA) , or have other responsibilities, depending on the legislation.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/what-we-do-referendums

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Well spotted, didn't actually write what I meant, should have been

"At the end of the day those that voted to leave have to live with what they get whether it is Trump in Y-fronts or not."

"Live with" and "accept", separate concepts.

The Eurosceptics never accepted the result of the 1975 referendum, but of course that would be different. In the same way people can campaign to remain or rejoin if they so chose.

Do people ask for a second opinion before or after the amputation.

Wrong again. Eurosceptics might never have liked the result of the 1975 referendum but they did not kick and scream to have it overturned, like remainers have over the last 3 years. That's the difference.

[NanLaew]

22 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

That was a criminal case, not the instances where they were found guilty of commiting electoral fraud, you seem to be very confused about things.

 

I directed you to the Electoral Commission but you chose not to check that, here's a quote taken directly from their website:

 

Vote Leave has today (Friday 29 March 2019) dropped its appeal and related proceedings against the Electoral Commission.

An Electoral Commission spokesperson said:

Vote Leave has today (Friday 29 March 2019) withdrawn its appeal and related proceedings against the Electoral Commission’s finding of multiple offences under electoral law, committed during the 2016 EU referendum campaign.

Vote Leave was the designated lead campaigner for the leave outcome at the referendum. We found that it broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness, confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event. Serious offences such as these undermine public confidence in our system and it is vital, therefore, that they are properly investigated and sanctioned.

Vote Leave has now paid its £61,000 fine in full.

It's OVER. All the major accounting errors have been admitted, punishments accepted and fines paid. It did NOT invalidate the referendum and apparently only 'undermined the confidence' of maybe 48.11% of those that voted.

 

Stop straw clutching. You'll break a nail.

[stephenterry]

19 hours ago, vogie said:

I wouldn't have thought that ignoring what the electorate vote for is very democratic, why don't we abolish voting altogether if our votes don't count.

 

"The basic rule of democracy is, you vote and you accept the result, otherwise where are we."

The MP's of both parties did accept the referendum result, as parliament sanctioned the invoking of Article 50.

That's factual.

May finally presented a withdrawal agreement which complied with 'leaving the EU' vote.

That's factual. 

 

The agreement was considered inappropriate by the opposition parties (as is their democratic right) and ERG/DUP rebels (as is their democratic right).

That's also factual  

 

Which, in essence, means all of your statement questions have been addressed, democratically. You need to accept that ONLY parliament is obliged to DECIDE what is considered to be best for Britain, NOT voters. If that means not pursuing brexit, it's still a democratic decision. 

 

I really cannot be any clearer than that, can I?

 

In any case, the December GE will (hopefully) decide the outcome of brexit, and owing to the tory inability to resolve anything except their self-interests, I have signed up to vote for Labour in my marginal constituency - which I have never done before. 

 

 

 

[stephenterry]

19 hours ago, nauseus said:

Brexit is not the solution to the problem caused by the self-interests of the majority of current MP's, I agree. Brexit is just the elected democratic outcome of the 2016 referendum.

Well that's worked out really great, then. 

[cleopatra2]

25 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Wrong again. Eurosceptics might never have liked the result of the 1975 referendum but they did not kick and scream to have it overturned, like remainers have over the last 3 years. That's the difference.

M.Foot included the withdrawal in the 83 labour manifesto.

He certainly did not accept the result and campaigned to overturn the referendum

[NanLaew]

46 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Why not do your own homework?

 

Our role in referendums is different to our role in elections. Although we don’t run elections, we do run national referendums held under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA) , or have other responsibilities, depending on the legislation.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/what-we-do-referendums

Nothing there that explains why the referendum counting areas are different from the electoral voting constituencies despite referendum voting using electoral voting constituency boundaries.

 

Thanks for trying the link anyway.

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

M.Foot included the withdrawal in the 83 labour manifesto.

He certainly did not accept the result and campaigned to overturn the referendum

Yes. But very different from kicking, screaming and dishonouring election manifestos and your own constituency voters!

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Kate hoy? not bad for a MP

 

will she survive the coming snap?

 

She is a long-serving and prominent Labour leave campaigner who has already said that she will not stand, at least as a Labour candidate. But she was returned to her very strong remain area seat (Vauxhall) in 2017. If she does stand, it will probably be with the Brexit Party.   

[Blue Muton]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

It's OVER. All the major accounting errors have been admitted, punishments accepted and fines paid. It did NOT invalidate the referendum and apparently only 'undermined the confidence' of maybe 48.11% of those that voted.

 

Stop straw clutching. You'll break a nail.

You're the one who twice got it wrong and are not big enough to acknowledge the fact, so I hardly need any advice from you.

 

Now you've got your hat-trick of nonsense by your comment "It did NOT invalidate the referendum...." You miss the point that it COULD not have invalidated the referendum because, as the referendum was not legaly binding, there is no legal basis for declaring it invalid as a result of fraud. Had the referendum been binding (as many Leavers now pretend it was), it might well have been ruled invalid owing to the high level of fraud commited by the Leave campaign.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

She is a long-serving and prominent Labour leave campaigner who has already said that she will not stand, at least as a Labour candidate. But she was returned to her very strong remain area seat (Vauxhall) in 2017. If she does stand, it will probably be with the Brexit Party.   

Vauxhall will Remain Labour for sure....here's the new candidate.

 

https://florenceeshalomi.com/

 

General election 2017: Vauxhall^[16][17]

Party		Candidate	Votes	%	±
	Labour	Kate Hoey	31,576	57.3	+3.5
	Liberal Democrat	George Turner	11,326	20.5	+13.6
	Conservative	Dolly Theis	10,277	18.6	-8.7
	Green	Gulnar Hasnain	1,152	2.0	-5.6
	Women’s Equality	Harini Iyengar	539	0.9	N/A
	Pirate	Mark Chapman	172	0.3	-0.1
Majority			20,250	36.7	+10.2
Turnout			55,042	67.1	+9.2
Registered electors			82,055
	Labour hold		Swing	-5.1

[evadgib]

On 10/29/2019 at 5:04 PM, evadgib said:

Wow, A 'Ficker than us' and a 'Not a no deal' in the same post! Where do i start...

 

When Cameron returned empty handed having been publicly humiliated by Brussels it, in effect was the EU signalling 'NO DEAL' & calling UK's bluff in the mistaken belief that;

 

a) We wouldn't dare hold a referendum &

 

b  ) We wouldn't dare vote to leave &

 

C) They (EU) were far too big & powerful for upstarts like us (or any other wayward desenters among their subverted member states, something they still fear!).

 

Enter St Nigel of Thanet & fast forward to yesterday...

Further to my earlier reply to @Bruntoid

 

[Chomper Higgot]

On 10/29/2019 at 8:24 PM, evadgib said:

With an election being called the smart money is on Stomper ????

Hardly, I’ve spent a couple of hours today working on the assistance I’ll be giving to Labour’s election campaign.