Gulf War veteran, 55, was killed by a single punch from a bouncer in Thailand who claimed he tried to leave go-go bar without paying his bill

[CharlieH]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

What legally recorded fact Charlie ? We got a video where a foreigner is shown to attack first and goes down after the counter from the Thai (just one blow). That is not excessive force and the Thai did not start the fight. (did not start with the first punch) How can you call that murder ? 

 

It was self defence according to the Thai court (also a legally recorded fact). I just don't see murder here. I maybe see self defence but that depends a bit on what went before. What is see is a short not overly violent altercation with a foreigner throwing a punch first and getting one punch back that lands badly. No murder (at all)

Rob, all that has nothing to do with the fact that "he died from complications arising from a punch in the head" that's the recorded fact !

Therefore, had he not been punched in the head, he would not have died. Why who how etc is technicalities and doesn't change the result and recorded verdict.

 

[wisperone]

13 minutes ago, BestB said:

16 minutes ago, wisperone said:

And people get hit once in the head and die. You must have been a great business owner in giving your bouncers instructions. Go ask a doctor. 

Since you such as expert, why do not you tell me how many were hit in the head and how many died from 1 hit in the head?

Well here ya go...this group counted 80 in UK in about 10 years. The headline story is about a 21 year old bouncer killing a patron with one punch. They explain how it happens and why the cause of death. No surprise. Honestly, people like you scare me that you were in charge of bouncers. It's no wonder these types of killings go on.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38992393

 

And by the way, I never said I was a expert, but I do claim to have common sense.

That by the way is just one link from a google search, there are dozens others.

Read and learn.

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by wisperone

[yogi100]

27 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Are people not reading the linked stories ????

The guy "DIED A YEAR LATER" after the incident.

He woke up, hoped on a plane, went home, opened a cafe with his wife, died a year later from "pneumonia and brain injury".

 

According to the results of the autopsy the brain injury was brought on by damage to his right frontal lobe which is part of the head.

 

It was his head that was injured in the attack.

 

Older people cannot recover so easily from physical injury, they are rarely fit enough. That's one of the reasons you never see 55 year old men in boxing rings. They're much more vulnerable.

[Vacuum]

9 hours ago, marcus111 said:

We do not know what the man did as regards in the military.

He might have been a pencil pusher...A cook...A store manager.

He might even have killed people.... 

[Pattaya46]

10 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

"High Season: "Tourists will be safe and we will be good hosts" says tourist police chief"

Or maybe not.

What the point to quote a yesterday's title

for an event that happened more than 1 year ago ??

Old story. The Mandarin Agogo doesn't even exist anymore...

Also looks like the UK guy returned home after this punch.

So not killed as this thread title insinuate it... 

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Rob, all that has nothing to do with the fact that "he died from complications arising from a punch in the head" that's the recorded fact !

Therefore, had he not been punched in the head, he would not have died. Why who how etc is technicalities and doesn't change the result and recorded verdict.

 

I am not arguing about the blow to the head that is clear. But that does not constitute murder.

 

If you think it does id advise you to study the law. In this case its was self defence according to the Thai judges. (not sure if I 100% agree but I do agree that the guy threw the first punch and as a response to that he got hit). So what is there to say if the guy did not throw the first punch would it have gone this way. 

 

Hard to say.

[miamiman123]

Bouncers are tough guys and the military officer is not used to this type of reaction from them.

officers are used to ordering people on what to do. The bouncers are used to telling people want they need to do.

thats part of this problem I think. 

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Rob, all that has nothing to do with the fact that "he died from complications arising from a punch in the head" that's the recorded fact !

Therefore, had he not been punched in the head, he would not have died. Why who how etc is technicalities and doesn't change the result and recorded verdict.

 

Watch the video again. The punch from the bouncer didn't even fully connect. Bouncer was over reaching which caused him to fall into the guy who fell backwards and hit his head on the ground with a real thud. Clearly the cause of his injury. If the guy hadn't argued about his bill and left without resolving the issue, or hadn't taken a swing at the bouncers, or hadn't been so drunk that he failed to break his fall, he would have been alive today.

[hotchilli]

12 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Security guard Phumphat Tanosingh was charged with grievous bodily harm for the punch and faced a trial in Thailand.

Should be manslaughter !

[Scouse123]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

I think that you will find that bouncers in all countries can behave violently , not just Thailand  

 

In the U.K. now they must undergo courses and training to achieve a license to work as security on the doors of bars and nightclubs. These licenses are renewed and reviewed regularly.

 

They must also have clean criminal records with no convictions. They are not allowed to drink alcohol whilst working.

 

Any complaints from members of the public and their license is reviewed. It can and does lead to its loss, either temporary or permanent, depending on the severity of the breach, if it is proven. Also, the doors in the UK are covered by CCTV.

 

This has lead to a marked improvement of the quality of people who are able to work as security. The local government and Police take this seriously.

 

No license, no work! It makes door staff and security think twice. Sure, there will be the odd bad apple, like everywhere, but the UK has come a long way from the days of the big ugly  ' bouncers in bow ties '

 

Thailand employs no such regulations to control security staff.

 

A sad ending for a UK hero. RIP to that man in uniform.

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, wisperone said:

Well here ya go...this group counted 80 in UK in about 10 years. The headline story is about a 21 year old bouncer killing a patron with one punch. They explain how it happens and why the cause of death. No surprise. Honestly, people like you scare me that you were in charge of bouncers. It's no wonder these types of killings go on.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38992393

 

And by the way, I never said I was a expert, but I do claim to have common sense.

That by the way is just one link from a google search, there are dozens others.

Read and learn.

 

I dont seem them calling 1 punch deaths murder like all the foreign experts on this board. They seem to call it manslaughter and out with less then 5 years (according to the article)

 

Great article explains a lot. 

[CharlieH]

Just now, robblok said:

I am not arguing about the blow to the head that is clear. But that does not constitute murder.

 

If you think it does id advise you to study the law. In this case its was self defence according to the Thai judges. (not sure if I 100% agree but I do agree that the guy threw the first punch and as a response to that he got hit). So what is there to say if the guy did not throw the first punch would it have gone this way. 

 

Hard to say.

Rob, nowhere did I say anything about murder, all I said was

"Had he not been punched in the head he would not have died" 

 

To which you replied "I disagree Charlie" how can you disagree when it's the stated fact ! 

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, wisperone said:

Well here ya go...this group counted 80 in UK in about 10 years. The headline story is about a 21 year old bouncer killing a patron with one punch. They explain how it happens and why the cause of death. No surprise. Honestly, people like you scare me that you were in charge of bouncers. It's no wonder these types of killings go on.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38992393

 

And by the way, I never said I was a expert, but I do claim to have common sense.

That by the way is just one link from a google search, there are dozens others.

Read and learn.

 

To be fair, its often not the punch that kills , its the head impacting with the ground that kills. People die from fainting if their head hits a solid object.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Peterw42

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Watch the video again. The punch from the bouncer didn't even fully connect. Bouncer was over reaching which caused him to fall into the guy who fell backwards and hit his head on the ground with a real thud. Clearly the cause of his injury. If the guy hadn't argued about his bill and left without resolving the issue, or hadn't taken a swing at the bouncers, or hadn't been so drunk that he failed to break his fall, he would have been alive today.

Your arguing that the recorded verdict is wrong, I am just stating what was recorded fact.

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

In the U.K. now they must undergo courses and training to achieve a license to work as security on the doors of bars and nightclubs. These licenses are renewed and reviewed regularly.

 

They must also have clean criminal records with no convictions. They are not allowed to drink alcohol whilst working.

 

Any complaints from members of the public and their license is reviewed. It can and does lead to its loss, either temporary or permanent, depending on the severity of the breach, if it is proven. Also, the doors in the UK are covered by CCTV.

 

This has lead to a marked improvement of the quality of people who are able to work as security. The local government and Police take this seriously.

 

No license, no work! It makes door staff and security think twice. Sure, there will be the odd bad apple, like everywhere, but the UK has come a long way from the days of the big ugly  ' bouncers in bow ties '

 

Thailand employs no such regulations to control security staff.

 

A sad ending for a UK hero. RIP to that man in uniform.

Wasn't always the case in the UK. Certainly not in the 70s. Don't forget that Thailand is at least 50 years behind the West.

[BestB]

13 minutes ago, wisperone said:

Well here ya go...this group counted 80 in UK in about 10 years. The headline story is about a 21 year old bouncer killing a patron with one punch. They explain how it happens and why the cause of death. No surprise. Honestly, people like you scare me that you were in charge of bouncers. It's no wonder these types of killings go on.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38992393

 

And by the way, I never said I was a expert, but I do claim to have common sense.

That by the way is just one link from a google search, there are dozens others.

Read and learn.

 

80 in 10 years? Out of how many millions if not billions? 

[Scouse123]

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

Wasn't always the case in the UK. Certainly not in the 70s. Don't forget that Thailand is at least 50 years behind the West.

 

I totally agree,

 

I am well aware of that, I worked in the industry from 1980. It wasn't even good in the 1980s, with hard men and thugs operating the doors.

 

That's why I am saying, the UK has come a long way in improving security since those days.

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Watch the video again. The punch from the bouncer didn't even fully connect. Bouncer was over reaching which caused him to fall into the guy who fell backwards and hit his head on the ground with a real thud. Clearly the cause of his injury. If the guy hadn't argued about his bill and left without resolving the issue, or hadn't taken a swing at the bouncers, or hadn't been so drunk that he failed to break his fall, he would have been alive today.

Thats what I see in the video, its not that clear if the punch even connects, its more the Thai guys ends up on top and the guy hits his head

[Dolmance]

I'm so glad I can't stomach alcohol, pimps, and prostitutes who aren't in it for fun. 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, SueOriginal said:

Absolutely sound and useful advise.

But seriously unpractical in the busy environment of a GGB. Check the tab each time it is returned to you, most places use POS these days. 

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Rob, nowhere did I say anything about murder, all I said was

"Had he not been punched in the head he would not have died" 

 

To which you replied "I disagree Charlie" how can you disagree when it's the stated fact ! 

Ok my brain would not have been awake sorry. Yes the blow to the head did cause it all. 

[DannyCarlton]

8 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

That's why I am saying, the UK has come a long way in improving security since those days.

And Thailand hasn't. TiT. I always smile and have a laugh with the bouncers. I treat them with respect, they treat me with respect. Never had a problem with them. Never argue the toss with a bouncer in Thailand. It just ain't worth it.

Edited November 1, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, BestB said:

80 in 10 years? Out of how many millions if not billions? 

I would not say billions not sure if its millions too unless the UK is a lot more violent then i think. Do you think there would be billions of blows to the head in bar fights ?

 

Or are you counting boxers in protective gears.

 

But I do get what your saying that it is rare and I agree. 

[yogi100]

10 hours ago, madmen said:

Ive been told that if a customer does a runner the staff are required to pay the shortfall

What have you been told that the staff are required to do when and if a lone customer refuses to be ripped off and proceeds to ring 911?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

12 hours ago, Yinn said:

He throws a punch to the air as he is approached by two Thai men - and is then hit to the floor with one horror punch.

 

 

So, once again trying to exculpate your countrymen. Sad, but typical.

 

A simiar thing happened to a friend of mine - 66 year old American man,  severely beaten in Chiang Mai province - by a gang of spineless young Thai men thugs.

 

So again, in what is I'm afraid to say typical Thai fashion - we have 3 young men (well, that's a generous label for these cockroaches) vs one old foreigner. They immediately start swinging, no attempt to simply restrain or remonstrate with the man (caught on CCTV) these young lads go at this old fella full tilt, safe in the knowledge that their little mates are right behind them to back them up. Pathetic. These turds should be taught a lesson, life in prison, no chance of parole for at least 20 years. This is not how you handle a situation as trivial as what has been reported.

 

I take the point that bouncers are very often <deleted> the world over, but it is I would wager VERY RARE (and is something I have never experienced in the UK) to see 3 doormen attack an older male over a trivial issue such as this, when there is seemingly no prior violence or attempt of violence. Doorstaff in developed nations are at least often trained, and while many are looking for a ruck, there are also some decent and restrained guys out there who will do their utmost to defuse a situation. 3 against 1 / the difference in age - not something that you're likely to witness where I'm from. It is hard to know the pretext to this situation, but these remain pertinent no matter what - 3 against 1, unneccessary attack, age difference. Could and should have been resolved in a more professional and calm manner.

 

Even if this fella did swing first, with 3 young men surrounding you and -being inebriated- it might well be the first reaction of many. If he hadn't of swung would the 3 guys not have rushed him? Seems unlikely, knowing Pattaya.

 

The attitude toward tourists is at times staggering here. As an industry that is responsible for approaching half the economic output / GDP - directly or indirectly - Thais really can't afford to be this complacent. 

 

12 hours ago, donnacha said:

These incidents are expensive for Thailand.

Exactly right, they are and they DESERVE to be too. 

Very sad in any case. I feel for his family.

Edited November 1, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, Dolmance said:

I'm so glad I can't stomach alcohol, pimps, and prostitutes who aren't in it for fun. 

Never heard of a pimp in Thailand. Met one in Cambodia and I'm informed that there are many in the UK, not in Thailand.

[robblok]

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

And Thailand hasn't. TiT. Ialways smile and have a laugh with the bouncers. I treat them with respect, they trat me with respect. Never had a problem with them. Never argue the toss with a bouncer in Thailand. It just ain't worth it.

I try to avoid fights even if it means swallowing some pride. I havent been in a fight since I been in Thailand and even back home I think only was in a fight once or twice but that was way back in my youth. Some people love fighting others dont. 

[GalaxyMan]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

I think that you will find that bouncers in all countries can behave violently , not just Thailand  

Agreed. Just ask Jaco Pastorius, the best bass player ever, beat to death by a bouncer at a nightclub in Florida.

[BestB]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I would not say billions not sure if its millions too unless the UK is a lot more violent then i think. Do you think there would be billions of blows to the head in bar fights ?

 

Or are you counting boxers in protective gears.

 

But I do get what your saying that it is rare and I agree. 

Not people but hits in the head . Millions if not billions hits in the head are thrown and 80 people died in 10 years. 

[richsilver]

1. This incident happened 17 months ago.  Why is it being posted now?  2.  He could not have called 911 as this does not work in Thailand.