CONDO Toilet Smell - Installation practices

[CaptainAdcap]

Does anyone have FIRST HAND experience with Thai CONDO toilet installations? I live on the 8th floor, brand new place, and my toilet smells really bad. It could be the water, gases, or I suspect, no seal from toilet drain to toilet drain pipe. The bottom of the toilet is caulked, silicone I imagine, it appears rust colored. I have tried the blue tablets, no help there. Please only respond if you have actual FIRST HAND CONDO toilet installation knowledge. Thank you in advance for your time and assistance. Do they actually use the rings below or other wax/paraffin seals?

[JAS21]

I do not have first-hand condo toilet installation knowledge

 

But I have firsthand knowledge of installing a Cotto toilet.

 

Go to the Cotto shop and get the proper installation kit and use it.

[lopburi3]

At great risk (not living in a condo) will point out the wax seal has nothing to do with smells and may or may not be used - traditional method has been to seal toilet to floor but seals are often provided these days so expect some are being used.  Are there bolts holding toilet down?  If not suspect a normal cement seal.

Normal source of bathroom smells is shower or room drain.  If an odor stopping type may only require adding some water to make good seal - if not may have to cover with something or replace with odor preventing type.

[impulse]

I'm with Lopburi3.  Normally, the smell is coming from another drain open to the lines.  Shower or floor drain would be the first things I'd check.  In many past cases, putting a wet towel over one of those eliminated the smell.  Not a solution, mind you.  Just a diagnostic check before chasing down the wrong alley.

 

In some places I've stayed, I could tell if it was windy outside by whether the bathroom smelled of sewage.  And that smell wasn't coming from the toilet.

 

 

[Skallywag]

22 minutes ago, CaptainAdcap said:

I live on the 8th floor, brand new place, and my toilet smells really bad. It could be the water, gases,

I would suspect "gases" being trapped and released from your toilet

Shower, sink, toilet need to have a "vent pipe" to remove gases from their drains and facilitate drainage

Since it is a "new" condo am thinking the vent is blocked/partially blocked. 

Something the builders would need to correct or someone qualified on Building management 

Worked construction and remodels for 10 years with my brother who has a General Contractor

The top three signs your plumbing vent is clogged include:

1. Sputtering, gurgling toilets. When airflow is inadequate in a vent because of size or blockage, the plumbing pressure will be greater than the air in the bathroom. 
2. Slow drain.
3. Strong sewer gas odor.

[Artisi]

I had one toilet with smell problem, it was usual Thai installation being bonded to the floor, took a lot of time and investigation to locate the smell source but beat it finally,

one of the two hold-down bolt at the rear of the pan wasn't sealed off, a 2 minute fix-up using some spare silicone sorted out the problem. 

[CaptainAdcap]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

At great risk (not living in a condo) will point out the wax seal has nothing to do with smells and may or may not be used - traditional method has been to seal toilet to floor but seals are often provided these days so expect some are being used.  Are there bolts holding toilet down?  If not suspect a normal cement seal.

Normal source of bathroom smells is shower or room drain.  If an odor stopping type may only require adding some water to make good seal - if not may have to cover with something or replace with odor preventing type.

I strongly disagree. The seal prevents gases and possible toilet flushed material from escaping from the drain. Its like a scuba mask, keeps everything air contained, water out. " Between the toilet and the flange is a wax seal. The wax keeps water from leaking as it passes from the toilet to the drain pipe. It also seals against foul sewer gas odors. A wax seal will often last the life of the toilet, 20 or 30 years, without needing to be changed. "

[CaptainAdcap]

1 hour ago, Skallywag said:

I would suspect "gases" being trapped and released from your toilet

Shower, sink, toilet need to have a "vent pipe" to remove gases from their drains and facilitate drainage

Since it is a "new" condo am thinking the vent is blocked/partially blocked. 

Something the builders would need to correct or someone qualified on Building management 

Worked construction and remodels for 10 years with my brother who has a General Contractor

The top three signs your plumbing vent is clogged include:

1. Sputtering, gurgling toilets. When airflow is inadequate in a vent because of size or blockage, the plumbing pressure will be greater than the air in the bathroom. 
2. Slow drain.
3. Strong sewer gas odor.

3 Yes, my problem. 1 and 2 no. What about no or poor seal between toilet and main drain pipe?

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, CaptainAdcap said:

I strongly disagree. The seal prevents gases and possible toilet flushed material from escaping from the drain. Its like a scuba mask, keeps everything air contained, water out. " Between the toilet and the flange is a wax seal. The wax keeps water from leaking as it passes from the toilet to the drain pipe. It also seals against foul sewer gas odors. A wax seal will often last the life of the toilet, 20 or 30 years, without needing to be changed. "

I agree if talking about using that system but that is not how it is normally done here - the base of the toilet itself is air sealed with white cement to prevent water or gas escape - when this is done wax seals are not needed.

[CaptainAdcap]

21 minutes ago, Artisi said:

I had one toilet with smell problem, it was usual Thai installation being bonded to the floor, took a lot of time and investigation to locate the smell source but beat it finally,

one of the two hold-down bolt at the rear of the pan wasn't sealed off, a 2 minute fix-up using some spare silicone sorted out the problem. 

I have seen this answer many times. Pan ??? Never heard of this pan. The bolts should be adhered to the floor. I guess if there is a pan underneath the toilet that contains sewage, I guess so. Is this standard CONDO construction?

[CaptainAdcap]

This is proper "Western" toilet installation. It works and it's simple. Toilet connects directly to drain pipe, no smell, no gas, no leakage, and no pan, whatever that is...

[sometimewoodworker]

10 minutes ago, CaptainAdcap said:

Between the toilet and the flange is a wax seal. The wax keeps water from leaking as it passes from the toilet to the drain pipe. It also seals against foul sewer gas odors. A wax seal will often last the life of the toilet, 20 or 30 years, without needing to be changed. "

That is true in some places (US) not in others. It certainly is neither universal nor an absolute requirement. 

[CaptainAdcap]

5 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

I agree if talking about using that system but that is not how it is normally done here - the base of the toilet itself is air sealed with white cement to prevent water or gas escape - when this is done wax seals are not needed.

Great, thank you. Cement cracks, especially if not used. This place was empty for at least a year, never used, I think the cement cracked. Cement loves water, especially in the curing process. Thank you my friend.

[sometimewoodworker]

 

an Example where a wax ring cannot be used.

 

the coupler will work with toilets that drain back or down

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[CaptainAdcap]

Just now, sometimewoodworker said:

That is true in some places (US) not in others. It certainly is neither universal nor an absolute requirement. 

A seal of some kind is a MUST HAVE. It can be wax, rubber, cement, silicone chalk. If not sealed, smells, health hazard, and more importantly, water seepage that leads to structural damage to your neighbors ceiling and/or foundation of your toilet floor. Wax has worked great in many climates for the life of a toilet. Rubber gasket and silicone probably holds up well. Cement and silicone seal, I would argue, short lived especially if the unit is used intermittently.

" The biggest SARS outbreak in Hong Kong spread through the plumbing in an apartment complex after visits from a man sick with the disease, a health official said Thursday. " IMPROPERLY SEALED TOILET, so I was told...

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, CaptainAdcap said:

A seal of some kind is a MUST HAVE.

I didn’t suggest that a seal was not required, just pointing out that a WAX seal is not a requirement and in some toilets impossible to use.

[CaptainAdcap]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

an Example where a wax ring cannot be used

 

OMG... like an idiot I should have looked up the model of my toilet.

http://tech.kohlerthai.com/product-detail.php?mode=kohler&ib=1&ic=1&is=3&id=130

[david555]

And keep it with water filled ….

[CaptainAdcap]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

I'm with Lopburi3.  Normally, the smell is coming from another drain open to the lines.  Shower or floor drain would be the first things I'd check.  In many past cases, putting a wet towel over one of those eliminated the smell.  Not a solution, mind you.  Just a diagnostic check before chasing down the wrong alley.

 

In some places I've stayed, I could tell if it was windy outside by whether the bathroom smelled of sewage.  And that smell wasn't coming from the toilet.

 

 

Going to try that, thanks. Eliminate all possibilities. Removing this toilet will not be fun. Actually the maintenance guy will do it, under my supervision of course. I am renting, why do I care? Do the right thing...LOL

[lopburi3]

15 minutes ago, david555 said:

And keep it with water filled ….

Indeed that is the source of most smells - especially if vacant for a period of time as water can dry out and allow smells in.  Many BR will have in floor for wet mop use and if water not added regularly become dry and most do not have wet bathroom as before.  

[JAS21]

I think the possibilities are ...

 

Floor drains ... I note in the hot weather I very frequently need to top up ...also worth checking that there is actually a seal and that the bottom piece has not been set too low, so actually no seal.

 

As previously mentioned if it has been set on white cement or grout then have the screw holes been filled.

 

Look here, page #3 for how to us the Cotto Kit ...  

 

In my experience it can be very diffult to use the wax seal...no wonder Thai Plumbers sling it. I reset the Maids toilet just on waterproof grout after I retiled the floor.  Her <deleted> is quite big and it has actually got somewhat bigger over the years, and yet my installation is still intact.

 

[CaptainAdcap]

4 hours ago, david555 said:

And keep it with water filled ….

OK !!! Have one in the bathroom. Heard about this also in other posts. So I need to flood it with water? I will try that, THANK YOU !!!

[CaptainAdcap]

1 hour ago, JAS21 said:

I think the possibilities are ...

 

Floor drains ... I note in the hot weather I very frequently need to top up ...also worth checking that there is actually a seal and that the bottom piece has not been set too low, so actually no seal.

 

As previously mentioned if it has been set on white cement or grout then have the screw holes been filled.

 

Look here, page #3 for how to us the Cotto Kit ...  

 

In my experience it can be very diffult to use the wax seal...no wonder Thai Plumbers sling it. I reset the Maids toilet just on waterproof grout after I retiled the floor.  Her <deleted> is quite big and it has actually got somewhat bigger over the years, and yet my installation is still intact.

 

THANK YOU ! I installed my first toilet in my condo, with a upgraded wax seal in Farang Land, all by my lonesome. It was tricky, but very easy. Easier I am sure with 2 people putting the toilet over the seal. Those toilets are heavy !!!

ตูด deleted? Everyone has one, I think...

[david555]

15 minutes ago, CaptainAdcap said:

OK !!! Have one in the bathroom. Heard about this also in other posts. So I need to flood it with water? I will try that, THANK YOU !!!

When condo long time not occupied so not showered  in this hot temp. the "smell isolating water" evaporates , by normal occupied use the showering or watercleaning does this automatic ….. but check of it is really this system as the common ones here don't have that ,.... (I use a old type rubber pucher to cover the only permanent open shower drain) , other not in use I just put strong silver coated tape over it , and if cleaning just remove those covers , as in Thailand I think they mostly don't keep shower water and toilet pipes separate …..or not respecting the difference....

 

Also check bathroom ceiling space as Thailand always let come the pipes from up passing  the lower condo …. same for your pipes are passing your down neighbor's bathroom under ceiling , smell can come also from there 

Edited November 9, 2019 by david555

[CaptainAdcap]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I didn’t suggest that a seal was not required, just pointing out that a WAX seal is not a requirement and in some toilets impossible to use.

SORRY, I am just a bad monkey today, I think those bathroom fumes are effecting me. Confucius say "flinging poo, makes fingers smell like <deleted>."

BTW A <deleted> is a measure of information - usually on a computer. One <deleted> equals one byte. A <deleted> is used to measure corrupt data, bad programming and rubbish. 

[Artisi]

11 hours ago, CaptainAdcap said:

I have seen this answer many times. Pan ??? Never heard of this pan. The bolts should be adhered to the floor. I guess if there is a pan underneath the toilet that contains sewage, I guess so. Is this standard CONDO construction?

Pan = toilet 

sometimes it's worth the 2 minutes to check what is being discussed.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Artisi

[sometimewoodworker]

14 hours ago, david555 said:

as in Thailand I think they mostly don't keep shower water and toilet pipes separate …..or not respecting the difference....

Completely wrong. Every house in every village that I have seen does separate the two, for financial reasons. Condos and high rise may not. 
if the system is designed for them to be combined (for example virtually all the U.K. is) it’s perfectly OK

[david555]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Completely wrong. Every house in every village that I have seen does separate the two, for financial reasons. Condos and high rise may not. 
if the system is designed for them to be combined (for example virtually all the U.K. is) it’s perfectly OK

it is about condos I am taking the example ….!not respecting split system & as O.P. talked about his condo .

I can understand in village or house building a foreigner building house would do the split mostly as from western building habit...

[Skallywag]

20 hours ago, CaptainAdcap said:

3 Yes, my problem. 1 and 2 no. What about no or poor seal between toilet and main drain pipe?

Yes, the seal must be checked as others have already mentioned.  Though normally you would see some leakage around base.  Should see leakage as soon as you remove toilet

 

Please must purchase and have a new seal on hand.  When you remove a toilet always best to put in a new seal between toilet and floor drain.  Yes in USA they always use combination rubber/wax seal.  Not sue what is available in LOS

 

The cracked cement suggestion I had not thought of - definitely worth checking if new seal doesn't work

Inspection could involve some destruction of floor tiles though?  Not a easy job to remove and replace.

 

Wish you luck 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

Bolts are not normally even used here as not required - the toilet itself will be heavy enough to adhere to cement and once set hold in place by that (at least for all but professional sumo wrestlers).

 

Normally removing toilet will not require any breaking of tiles but if not careful it may chip old toilet (if you want to reuse).  

 

As said in most cases odor it is a simple add water or replace drain with odor blocking type answer rather than the toilet.