Clarification of insurance and extensions since 31/10.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, bangkokbanjo said:

My understanding was you can only get an O visa is you are visiting family or are married to a Thai.  Can someone clarify this Visa for me

In the UK 

to visit family or friends in Thailand, voluntary job, retirement, medical treatment, to attend judicial process, to work as diplomat's housekeeper

[GeorgeCross]

10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

In the UK 

to visit family or friends in Thailand, voluntary job, retirement, medical treatment, to attend judicial process, to work as diplomat's housekeeper

 

good luck getting one to visit friends! they stopped that one 10 years ago ????

[jacko45k]

Just now, GeorgeCross said:

 

good luck getting one to visit friends! they stopped that one 10 years ago ????

Well it is listed on their website, along with the erroneous statement that for Visa Exempt entries you are limited to a maximum of 3 times in a 6-month period by flight '. 

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, bangkokbanjo said:

I keep reading about using an O visa instead of OA.   My understanding was you can only get an O visa is you are visiting family or are married to a Thai.  Can someone clarify this Visa for me.

It depends where you apply for an O Visa.

In my home-country (Belgium) you can only apply for 3 specific Non Imm O Visa:

So contrary to e.g. UK, I cannot apply in my home-country for an O Visa based on retirement.

But what I can can do is enter Thailand Visa-exempt and then apply for a Non Imm O Visa based on retirement at a provincial IO that provides that service (not all of them do).

I can also cross the border and apply for a Non Imm O Visa based on retirement in a neighboring country that provides that service (e.g. Vientiane and Savannakhet provide that service).

Once you have your Non Imm O Visa based on retirement, you can then apply in Thailand for an extension of stay based on that Non Imm O Visa, which will give you a 1 year permission to stay.

The exact same rules apply for that Non Imm O Visa as for the Non Imm OA Visa.  WITH THE EXCEPTION, that when applying for it you are not required to meet the health-insurance requirement (which is only for OA).

Indeed absurd, that you have to go through these hoops to basically get exactly the same as what you started with, because for an extension of stay based on the O Visa you are not required to buy the basically worthless @#$%^& thai-approved health-insurance.

And that's the reason friendly Immigration Officers, give the advice to OA extension applicants that are turned down for reason of no health-insurance, to 'Leave Thailand - Get a Non Imm O abroad or on return - Apply for extension of stay of Non Imm O'.

Please note that you cannot apply for a Non Imm O Visa, when you still have a non-expired OA Visa or Tourist Visa (or a re-entry permit that keeps those Visa alive).

 

[brianj1964]

5 hours ago, bangkokbanjo said:

I am arriving in about 5 days on an OA visa I got before Oct 31.  I'll let you know how it goes at immigration.   To be safe , I got insurance and also got the required certificate signed.   

 

On a different note, I keep reading about using an O visa instead of OA.   My understanding was you can only get an O visa is you are visiting family or are married to a Thai.  Can someone clarify this Visa for me

 

Thanks

London Embassy WERE granting O visa for the reasons you mentioned plus they inserted the words retirement if you were receiving state pension, so you would have to be a minimum 65-66, I guess, someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong, but that's what their website says

i stopped working at 55 in May so decided on the O-A , I'm married to a Thai so could still have applied for the O but apparently the paperwork required is more, I took the easier option.

[Sheryl]

Interesting Line exchange with  @Thai Visa Centre   As follows:

 

"O-A HEALTH INSURANCE UPDATE If you currently hold a Non-O visa, or 1 year retirement extension through us you are not impacted by these requirements. However if you are here on an O-A visa, or planning on coming back into the country on an O-A visa you will be required on entry to show proof of thai insurance that follows the requirements. We are hearing reports from individuals that have had a O-A visa before Oct 31st to also be impacted at some immigrations."

 

To which I asked

"Please clarify. Are you saying people with extension of stay for retirement are not affected even if their original visa type was OA?"

 

Reply:

"if your current visa is the extension in thailand then you do not need to worry about health insurrance"

 

Needs more clarification and may or may not be correct but sounds like Agent is saying people here on existing extensions of stay can get further extension without insurance, at least with their help (which might have more to do with getting the file in the hands of someone who better understands the rules than anything else).

[Andrew Dwyer]

13 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

London Embassy WERE granting O visa for the reasons you mentioned plus they inserted the words retirement if you were receiving state pension, so you would have to be a minimum 65-66, I guess, someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong, but that's what their website says

i stopped working at 55 in May so decided on the O-A , I'm married to a Thai so could still have applied for the O but apparently the paperwork required is more, I took the easier option.

This is from the Hull Consulate website they offer O visas for “ UK State pensioner “ and “ person who is aged 50+ “ single entry only, other options are available.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Andrew Dwyer

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, saiber said:

So whats about that certificate shown on longstay.tgia.org ? Would they accept Allianz insurance if they sign that cert ?!

The situation is complex.

When applying for an OA Visa - retirement in your home-country, the thai Embassy/Consulate will accept a foreign-insurance company issued Certificate (carrying the required signatures and stating that the foreign insurance meets the 440/40 inbound-outbound criteria).

But when applying for an extension of stay once you are in Thailand, the Police Order is quite specific on that issue and states

So there you have it: it specifically states Thai health insurance.

So you can pro-longe the health-insurance with the Certificate that got your OA application approved, but a new Certificate from that prolongation, will NOT be accepted by thai Immigration.

I can only hope that the Police Order will be changed/amended at some point (or that it proves to be once again a case of inexact thai translation).  The outcry from outraged OA holders has of course also reached the Embassies/Consulates and they are applying diplomatic pressure to persuade thai authorities to make changes to the presently issued requirements.

The fact that the presently approved thai insurance companies do not even offer policies once above a certain age, making it IMPOSSIBLE for elderly OA retirees to meet the requirement is another example, of how this whole thing stinks and needs urgent treatment.

 

[john terry1001]

36 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

i stopped working at 55 in May so decided on the O-A , I'm married to a Thai so could still have applied for the O but apparently the paperwork required is more, I took the easier option.

What paperwork were you told you needed to apply for a non O visa in the UK? In my experience, if you're married to a Thai it is much easier than applying for an O-A visa.

Edited November 16, 2019 by john terry1001

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The situation is complex.

When applying for an OA Visa - retirement in your home-country, the thai Embassy/Consulate will accept a foreign-insurance company issued Certificate (carrying the required signatures and stating that the foreign insurance meets the 440/40 inbound-outbound criteria).

But when applying for an extension of stay once you are in Thailand, the Police Order is quite specific on that issue and states

So there you have it: it specifically states Thai health insurance.

So you can pro-longe the health-insurance with the Certificate that got your OA application approved, but a new Certificate from that prolongation, will NOT be accepted by thai Immigration.

I can only hope that the Police Order will be changed/amended at some point (or that it proves to be once again a case of inexact thai translation).  The outcry from outraged OA holders has of course also reached the Embassies/Consulates and they are applying diplomatic pressure to persuade thai authorities to make changes to the presently issued requirements.

The fact that the presently approved thai insurance companies do not even offer policies once above a certain age, making it IMPOSSIBLE for elderly OA retirees to meet the requirement is another example, of how this whole thing stinks and needs urgent treatment.

 

Its semantics again. Does "Thai health Insurance" mean insurance that is valid/covers Thailand, or insurance issued by a Thai company.

Insurance "for" Thailand or insurance "from" Thailand.

[Peter Denis]

18 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Its semantics again. Does "Thai health Insurance" mean insurance that is valid/covers Thailand, or insurance issued by a Thai company.

Insurance "for" Thailand or insurance "from" Thailand.

I agree, if they had written 'a thai-approved health-insurance certificate' or something along those lines, there would be no discussion about it.

But now the lower-rank Immigration officials that have to enforce the Police Order, read Thai health insurance so when you come with an Allianz Certificate you will be dismissed immediately because 'Not thai'.

What a mess!

[jackdd]

17 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Its semantics again. Does "Thai health Insurance" mean insurance that is valid/covers Thailand, or insurance issued by a Thai company.

Insurance "for" Thailand or insurance "from" Thailand.

In Thai it's written just as unclear as in the English translation (actually the translator made a good job in translating the unprecise Thai wording to English).

But most people who read the Thai version will interpret it as "insurance bought from a Thai company", because if they really wanted to say an insurance covering the stay in Thailand, they would have worded it differently.

 

This does also match what was decided by the cabinet: https://cabinet.soc.go.th/soc/Program2-3.jsp?top_serl=99332041

They say that foreign insurance should be allowed (by use of the certificate) when applying for the visa, but they don't say the same for extensions. Instead they point out that verifying a foreign insurance is difficult. So it was probably decided that an embassy in a foreign country can be expected to verify insurances from this country, but they don't expect that immigration in Thailand can verify an insurance from anywhere in this world, so for an extension a Thai insurance is required.

[DrJack54]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well it is listed on their website, along with the erroneous statement that for Visa Exempt entries you are limited to a maximum of 3 times in a 6-month period by flight '. 

The "family and friends" is also listed on au site (well was several yrs ago) when I visited Thai consulate melb in 2012 they said " no can".

I said why is it on your web site? He replied "not our problem" .

You got to love em

[Andrew Dwyer]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The "family and friends" is also listed on au site (well was several yrs ago) when I visited Thai consulate melb in 2012 they said " no can".

I said why is it on your web site? He replied "not our problem" .

You got to love em

Yes, although I posted a photo of a UK consulate offering an O visa for various reasons an email or phone call would be recommended before travelling.

[gavlar]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

What paperwork were you told you needed to apply for a non O visa in the UK? In my experience, if you're married to a Thai it is much easier than applying for an O-A visa.

First of all I agree applying in the UK for an OA is much more difficult than applying for an O.

I think #219 probably heard, and is referring to, that the  follow up extension to an O is more paperwork than that required for an extension on an your original OA.

[john terry1001]

14 minutes ago, gavlar said:

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

What paperwork were you told you needed to apply for a non O visa in the UK? In my experience, if you're married to a Thai it is much easier than applying for an O-A visa.

First of all I agree applying in the UK for an OA is much more difficult than applying for an O.

I think #219 probably heard, and is referring to, that the  follow up extension to an O is more paperwork than that required for an extension on an your original OA.

But only when applying for a marriage extension, all marriage extensions are. For retirement extensions non O and O-A are the same.

[gavlar]

19 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

But only when applying for a marriage extension, all marriage extensions are. For retirement extensions non O and O-A are the same.

My understanding is you cannot get an O retirement for marriage in the UK....only a 90 day single entry O.

Perhaps the original poster could confirm why he chose OA.

[brianj1964]

3 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

This is from the Hull Consulate website they offer O visas for “ UK State pensioner “ and “ person who is aged 50+ “ single entry only, other options are available.

 

 

Hull is a consulate, will they issue the O or direct it through London? I had a 3 month O from Glasgow earlier this year, but they still needed confirmation from London, I'm not sure Hull will give you any longer than 3 months

[Andrew Dwyer]

2 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

Hull is a consulate, will they issue the O or direct it through London? I had a 3 month O from Glasgow earlier this year, but they still needed confirmation from London, I'm not sure Hull will give you any longer than 3 months

You apply online ( download some docs) and have to wait for approval from London, then they invite you to visit Hull for the visa .

Someone had posted on TVF that with a phone call they were able to visit the consulate and do it all in a day . ( can’t find a link sorry ).

 

The two retirement options give a SE 90 day O visa only, not sure about the others.

 

I forgot to mention on my original post but an email or phone to the consulate to check the website information is still valid would be wise .

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

In Thai it's written just as unclear as in the English translation (actually the translator made a good job in translating the unprecise Thai wording to English).

But most people who read the Thai version will interpret it as "insurance bought from a Thai company", because if they really wanted to say an insurance covering the stay in Thailand, they would have worded it differently.

 

This does also match what was decided by the cabinet: https://cabinet.soc.go.th/soc/Program2-3.jsp?top_serl=99332041

They say that foreign insurance should be allowed (by use of the certificate) when applying for the visa, but they don't say the same for extensions. Instead they point out that verifying a foreign insurance is difficult. So it was probably decided that an embassy in a foreign country can be expected to verify insurances from this country, but they don't expect that immigration in Thailand can verify an insurance from anywhere in this world, so for an extension a Thai insurance is required.

As it is being applied it is interpreted as insurance from one of the companies on the tgia website list. These are all based in Thailand, but not all are Thai companies,  and not all Thai companies are on the list.

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

As it is being applied it is interpreted as insurance from one of the companies on the tgia website list. These are all based in Thailand, but not all are Thai companies,  and not all Thai companies are on the list.

If i look on this list: http://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa It looks like they are all Thai public company limited, no foreign insurance company to be found there.

 

The police order can't be taken literally anyway, because the police order (as well as the cabinet) says you have to purchase an insurance online through the tgia website. Afaik that's not possible, the tgia website just redirects you to insurance companies, so nobody could satisfy this requirement and nobody with an OA visa could get an extension.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If i look on this list: http://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa It looks like they are all Thai public company limited, no foreign insurance company to be found there.

If you read the info for several of them you will find they are  part of a international company that is registered here to provide insurance.

For example.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you read the info for several of them you will find they are  part of a international company that is registered here to provide insurance.

For example.

The shareholders might be outside of Thailand, but "Aetna Health Insurance (Thailand) Public Company Limited" is still a Thai company and has to follow Thai laws and regulations, which a company in another country doesn't have to do. So there are no foreign companies on the list.

[brianj1964]

35 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

You apply online ( download some docs) and have to wait for approval from London, then they invite you to visit Hull for the visa .

Someone had posted on TVF that with a phone call they were able to visit the consulate and do it all in a day . ( can’t find a link sorry ).

 

The two retirement options give a SE 90 day O visa only, not sure about the others.

 

I forgot to mention on my original post but an email or phone to the consulate to check the website information is still valid would be wise .

Yeah sounds similar, I sent Glasgow the form with photo, passport data page, marriage certificate and wife's ID card, approved in 48 hours then I went there with my passport and 60 quid, I don't know if I could have extended it here to a year, someone who has more knowledge will tell me

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, brianj1964 said:

Yeah sounds similar, I sent Glasgow the form with photo, passport data page, marriage certificate and wife's ID card, approved in 48 hours then I went there with my passport and 60 quid, I don't know if I could have extended it here to a year, someone who has more knowledge will tell me

Visas can never be extended. You always have to get a new visa.

 

On entry the immigration officers (RTP) issue permission to stay (it isn't a visa)

 

The permission to stay given for entering with your Non immigrant visa with the correct paperwork and money in the bank can be extended for a year on the basis of being married to a Thai national.

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

For retirement extensions non O and O-A are the same.

Unfortunately from October 31st they are not, have you read this thread?

[ThaiBob]

The OP made a conscientious effort to gather some meaningful information regarding O-A extensions which has disintegrated from the original intent. Can somebody tell me what the score is? Extensions granted vs extensions denied with IO. 

[sometimewoodworker]

11 hours ago, ThaiBob said:

The OP made a conscientious effort to gather some meaningful information regarding O-A extensions which has disintegrated from the original intent. Can somebody tell me what the score is? Extensions granted vs extensions denied with IO. 

Not quite the actual question was a little more involved 

Quote

Has anyone, with an previous OA visa , been asked for insurance when entering with a re-entry permit or when doing their regular extension of stay ????

So far as I have read 

 

previous OA visa; after the first few days, no insurance requirement 

 

re-entry permit; no insurance requirement 

 

extension of stay; 1) 1 report of no insurance requirement, no supporting evidence provided, so unconfirmed 

 

extension of stay; 2); at least 1 reliable report of refusal because of no insurance. 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

So far as I have read 

- previous OA visa; after the first few days, no insurance requirement 

- re-entry permit; no insurance requirement 

= extension of stay; 1) 1 report of no insurance requirement, no supporting evidence provided, so unconfirmed 

- extension of stay; 2); at least 1 reliable report of refusal because of no insurance. 

Good summary of present status, but added some more details of possible relevance:

• First entry on pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > After initial - incorrect  - denials, since Nov 7 > no insurance requirement
• Re-entry on still valid pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > 2 reports - queried about health insurance, but even while having no thai-approved HI certificate, both stamped in for full 12 months
• Re-entry with re-entry permit > Several reports > no insurance requirement
• Extension of stay for retirement based on original pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > 1 first-hand report (CW) being approved without even mentioning health-insurance / 1 first-hand report (Nonthaburi) being denied for non-thai health insurance / several not first-hand reports (firends/know someone) of being denied for no health-insurance / several quoted statements by Immigration officers that Health-Insurance is required for extensions based on an original OA Visa.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

55 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

First entry on pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > After initial - incorrect  - denials, since Nov 7 > no insurance requiremen

Please elaborate, your words seem to be suggesting that after the initial denials for pre 31/10 visas that there are still refusals for no insurance.

 

55 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Extension of stay for retirement based on original pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > 1 first-hand report (CW) being approved without even mentioning health-insurance

Despite being asked to confirm that the original visa was indeed a non-OA I haven’t seen a follow up with proof. That is why I mentioned it as unconfirmed. Has there been proof?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by sometimewoodworker