In Trump-Nixon impeachment comparison, Pelosi raises specter of resignation

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Sssshhhh....we dont jump to conclusions listening to just one side's questions.

Nunes is now questioning....

His opening statement was clear enough. Won't matter much anyway, the defense 'so what' will still be applied.

Edited November 20, 2019 by stevenl

[JHolmesJr]

I expect Nunes and counsel will clearly, and beyond all doubt, establish the role of Ukraine in how they sided with the Democrats to meddle in the 2016 elections in order to take out Hillary Clinton's political rival, Donald Trump.

 

Why would the US give the Ukraine a White House meeting or even a cent before getting to the bottom of what went on in Ukraine and who was involved. 

 

This is not a criminal trial but a show for the public.....expect the republicans to show to the public exactly how much corrupt behaviour in Ukraine was co-opted by the Democrat administration at the time...the admin of Barack Obama.....and then, expect the IG and Durham to confirm.

 

Sorry to prolong trump haters' angst by 4 more years. 

 

 

[riclag]

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

I expect Nunes and counsel will clearly, and beyond all doubt, establish the role of Ukraine in how they sided with the Democrats to meddle in the 2016 elections in order to take out Hillary Clinton's political rival, Donald Trump.

 

Why would the US give the Ukraine a White House meeting or even a cent before getting to the bottom of what went on in Ukraine and who was involved. 

 

This is not a criminal trial but a show for the public.....expect the republicans to show to the public exactly how much corrupt behaviour in Ukraine was co-opted by the Democrat administration at the time...the admin of Barack Obama.....and then, expect the IG and Durham to confirm.

 

Sorry to prolong trump haters' angst by 4 more years. 

 

 

Tons of presumptions,opinions guesses and no recollection's  by sounland

[JHolmesJr]

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

Tons of presumptions,opinions guesses and no recollection's  by sounland

Except this exchange between him and Trump. (which Sondland errr....left out of his 23 page opening statement ????)

Sondland: you're fired! lol

 

Sondland: What do you want from Ukraine? What do you want....I keep hearing all these ideas and theories.

    What do you want?

 

Trump: I WANT NOTHING....NOTHING...NO QUID PRO QUO...TELL ZELENSKY TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

 

Apropos: will democrats now also do the right thing...pack up and go home? I fear, never. Wonder what the 

next hoax will be....my advice to them, give it up people.....the Don is just too street smart for all of you

combined.

[candide]

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

I expect Nunes and counsel will clearly, and beyond all doubt, establish the role of Ukraine in how they sided with the Democrats to meddle in the 2016 elections in order to take out Hillary Clinton's political rival, Donald Trump.

 

Why would the US give the Ukraine a White House meeting or even a cent before getting to the bottom of what went on in Ukraine and who was involved. 

 

This is not a criminal trial but a show for the public.....expect the republicans to show to the public exactly how much corrupt behaviour in Ukraine was co-opted by the Democrat administration at the time...the admin of Barack Obama.....and then, expect the IG and Durham to confirm.

 

Sorry to prolong trump haters' angst by 4 more years. 

 

 

Nice try.

Trump talked about Crowstrike and Ukrainian server conspiracy in the call memo. And this conspiracy theory has been completely debunked.

About the origin of the Mueller probe, which is what you seem to refer to,  there is an official investigation so there was no need for a quid pro quo.

[JHolmesJr]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Nice try.

Trump talked about Crowstrike and Ukrainian server conspiracy in the call memo. And this conspiracy theory has been completely debunked.

About the origin of the Mueller probe, which is what you seem to refer to,  there is an official investigation so there was no need for a quid pro quo.

you must be having a terrible night....I fear it's about to get worse as they turn the screws on Sondland....

why did you leave out exculpatory information about your call with the president?

 

Errr....because my statement was already quite long.....lol.

Pain coming for Sondland.

[riclag]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Nice try.

Trump talked about Crowstrike and Ukrainian server conspiracy in the call memo. And this conspiracy theory has been completely debunked.

About the origin of the Mueller probe, which is what you seem to refer to,  there is an official investigation so there was no need for a quid pro quo.

That conspiracy theory about Crowdstrike is still under investigation by Durham and Horowitz,on all things 2016! especially the investigation of the investigators!

"The FBI never took physical hold of the DNC’s computer system. Instead, it reviewed a wide range of computer forensic evidence provided by CrowdStrike, which is common practice in such investigations".

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:7657130451

[candide]

17 minutes ago, riclag said:

That conspiracy theory about Crowdstrike is still under investigation by Durham and Horowitz,on all things 2016! especially the investigation of the investigators!

"The FBI never took physical hold of the DNC’s computer system. Instead, it reviewed a wide range of computer forensic evidence provided by CrowdStrike, which is common practice in such investigations".

https://apnews.com/afs:Content:7657130451

Ah! Ah! The source you link does not support your claim, and nowhere is it stated that it is currently investigated. Additionally, the article states that it's not necessary and common practice to seize the server.

Quote from your source:

CLAIM: The FBI only relied on the word of a cybersecurity firm, CrowdStrike, to determine that Russia hacked the emails of the Democratic National Committee.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. CrowdStrike provided forensic evidence and analysis for the FBI to review during its investigation into a 2016 hack of DNC emails.

THE FACTS: Social media posts are wrongly claiming that the FBI failed to review evidence in the hack of the DNC’s computer network before concluding that Russia was responsible for the breach.

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by candide

[riclag]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

Ah! Ah! The source you link does not support your claim, and nowhere is it stated that it is currently investigated. Additionally, the article states that it's not necessary and common practice to seize the server.

Quote from your source:

CLAIM: The FBI only relied on the word of a cybersecurity firm, CrowdStrike, to determine that Russia hacked the emails of the Democratic National Committee.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. CrowdStrike provided forensic evidence and analysis for the FBI to review during its investigation into a 2016 hack of DNC emails.

THE FACTS: Social media posts are wrongly claiming that the FBI failed to review evidence in the hack of the DNC’s computer network before concluding that Russia was responsible for the breach.

 

Yes it is still considered a conspiracy theory ,crowdstrike's involvement that the POTUS mentions but the investigation of all things 2016 is still going on. Like I said the investigators are being investigated!

 

"Former FBI Director James Comey told Congress that “our forensics folks would always prefer to get access to the original device or server that’s involved” but also testified that for months his FBI investigative team “had gotten the information from the private party [CrowdStrike] that they needed to understand the intrusion.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/analysis-trumps-ukraine-crowdstrike-conspiracy-theory-front-and-center-in-impeachment-hearing

 

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

I expect Nunes and counsel will clearly, and beyond all doubt, establish the role of Ukraine in how they sided with the Democrats to meddle in the 2016 elections in order to take out Hillary Clinton's political rival, Donald Trump.

 

Why would the US give the Ukraine a White House meeting or even a cent before getting to the bottom of what went on in Ukraine and who was involved. 

 

This is not a criminal trial but a show for the public.....expect the republicans to show to the public exactly how much corrupt behaviour in Ukraine was co-opted by the Democrat administration at the time...the admin of Barack Obama.....and then, expect the IG and Durham to confirm.

 

Sorry to prolong trump haters' angst by 4 more years. 

 

 

Nunes did not , you were wrong.

[joecoolfrog]

Trump now claims he barely knew Sondland lol. 

Perhaps he is setting the scene for a resignation based on mental ill health.

[candide]

12 minutes ago, riclag said:

Yes it is still considered a conspiracy theory ,crowdstrike's involvement that the POTUS mentions but the investigation of all things 2016 is still going on. Like I said the investigators are being investigated!

 

"Former FBI Director James Comey told Congress that “our forensics folks would always prefer to get access to the original device or server that’s involved” but also testified that for months his FBI investigative team “had gotten the information from the private party [CrowdStrike] that they needed to understand the intrusion.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/analysis-trumps-ukraine-crowdstrike-conspiracy-theory-front-and-center-in-impeachment-hearing

 

Neither this source nor the DOJ quoted in it support your point.

Quote

In its case against Trump associate Roger Stone, DOJ argued that Mueller’s investigation did not rely solely on CrowdStrike and its investigation “gathered evidence showing that GRU officers hacked the DNC systems as well as the DCCC [Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee] and email accounts of people working for the presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton, published hacked information pseudonymously, and transferred stolen data to organization 1 [WikiLeaks].”

[riclag]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Neither this source nor the DOJ quoted in it support your point.

Quote

In its case against Trump associate Roger Stone, DOJ argued that Mueller’s investigation did not rely solely on CrowdStrike and its investigation “gathered evidence showing that GRU officers hacked the DNC systems as well as the DCCC [Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee] and email accounts of people working for the presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton, published hacked information pseudonymously, and transferred stolen data to organization 1 [WikiLeaks].”

What point ! That there is a ongoing investigation of the people who investigated and confirmed that about Crowdstrike

[candide]

6 minutes ago, riclag said:

What point ! That there is a ongoing investigation of the people who investigated and confirmed that about Crowdstrike

Are you sure it is part of the investigation? Any source?

[Credo]

Sondland was appointed by Trump.    All the Republicans are doing is pontificating about how awful it is that Trump is facing impeachment.   It's clear that Trump held up the money for a country that has been invaded by Russia.   I find it interesting that anything Russia wants, it gets.   It got what it wanted in Syria.   Now it's being aided by the President in getting Ukrainian territory.

 

[riclag]

14 minutes ago, candide said:

Are you sure it is part of the investigation? Any source?

First, I believe that crowdstrike is in the context of the impeachment so it is myop that this is relevant to the hearings. Since the POTUS didn't trust Ukraine relationship with Crowdstrike.

My source for the investigation 

"Durham is examining what led the U.S. to open a counterintelligence investigation into the Trump campaign and the roles that various countries played in the U.S. probe. He is also investigating whether the surveillance and intelligence gathering methods used during the investigation were legal and appropriate".

https://apnews.com/156aa3e8bcdf41f28594b4cd723086e8

 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by riclag

[TopDeadSenter]

So after watching the dems star witness Sondland and his admission Trump wanted nothing in return for aid, it feels like the day Mueller read his no collusion report. A million broken hearts and dreams. But the Schiff-show has been so much fun, please don't let it get cancelled. I think seeing as they changed the charge from quid pro quo to bribery to extortion and back to quid pro quo as narratives were crushed, could they not just claim Trump is a traitor for meeting Korean Kim and impeach him for that? That way we can carry this fantasy on and keep rock stars like Jordan and Stefanik in the public eye.

[Thainesss]

Welp that was anti-climatic. Sondland brought no evidence at all other than his opinion and assumption and even stated such. 

 

Clown show continues.

[sirineou]

Just now, Thainesss said:

Welp that was anti-climatic. Sondland brought no evidence at all other than his opinion and assumption and even stated such. 

 

Clown show continues.

You are kidding right? Listen to the following snip from today's testimony and tell me what you think he said.

 

[Tug]

Some of the trump supporters are down rite delusional imo trump got spanked today 

[Thainesss]

13 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You are kidding right? Listen to the following snip from today's testimony and tell me what you think he said.

 

Do you want me to show you the snip where he stated that he has no evidence and this is all based on his assumption? 

[TopDeadSenter]

20 minutes ago, Tug said:

Some of the trump supporters are down rite delusional imo trump got spanked today 

Sorry to break it to you, but Sondlands PRESUMPTION is just not enough to oust a democratically elected President. Seeing as this was the star witness that the neverTrumpers were holding their breath for, this is a major anti-climax. 

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Do you want me to show you the snip where he stated that he has no evidence and this is all based on his assumption? 

The evidence is that aid was withheld for an alleged Quid pro quo.

  subsequent testimony confirms it.

and please dont tell me that aid was released without a Ukrainian investigation statement'

It was only released after they heard that the cops were coming. And just because someone you were trying to force to commit a crime did not participate in your scheme. does not mean that you are not criminally liable also .

 

[Thainesss]

27 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The evidence is that aid was withheld for an alleged Quid pro quo.

I see were back to quid pro quo now. How cute. 

 

And an allegation is not 'evidence' buddy. 

[Thainesss]

46 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Sorry to break it to you, but Sondlands PRESUMPTION is just not enough to oust a democratically elected President.

 

Well, to be fair that reason is certainly more than enough for the little tyrants that call themselves liberals. Dont know if you noticed but they couldn't give 2 white dog turds about ruining people they don't like based on nothing more than their feelings and assumptions. 

[Credo]

1 hour ago, Thainesss said:

 

Do you want me to show you the snip where he stated that he has no evidence and this is all based on his assumption? 

Well, he had to make a lot of assumptions.  The White House and the Dept of State would not give him access to his reports, emails and other documents.   

 

Oh, and remember, he's a Trump appointee.

 

[mtls2005]

Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.

 

Sondland needed a fleet of buses...the president, the vp, pompeo, bolton, mulvaney, giuliani.

 

Never seen that many folks get bussed in such a short time.

 

At a minimum they (save potus) all need to testify, as does eisenberg.

 

Release all the documents.

 

 

One shudders to think what other "foreign relations" look like, what with kushner out running around doing a "giuliani"? KSA, Turkey, Russia.

 

 

The president today:

 

"I don’t know him very well," Trump said. "I have not spoken to him much. This is not a man I know well. He seems like a nice guy though. But I don't know him well."

 

Sondland and Trump are hardly strangers. In October, Trump tweeted that he "would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify."

 

 

 

President's talking points today...

 

 

 

[rabas]

22 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The evidence is that aid was withheld for an alleged Quid pro quo.

  subsequent testimony confirms it.

and please dont tell me that aid was released without a Ukrainian investigation statement'

It was only released after they heard that the cops were coming. And just because someone you were trying to force to commit a crime did not participate in your scheme. does not mean that you are not criminally liable also .

 

You did hear Sondland testify to Nunes, the EU ambassador, about President Trump's passion to limit money to EU members because they are not pulling their weight, particularly on things like NATO defence? Trump's businessman sense of saving US tax payer dollars? And that Trump had deeply negative views of Ukraine because of its world renowned corruption? You did hear Sondland agree that could be the reason money was being withheld rather than his own purely presumed reasoning?  No mention of Biden?

 

All that after Sondland's damaging testimony to Shiff and his counsel.

 

Kenneth Starr said clearly (sorry just had an earthquake) you cannot impeach on interpretable evidence.

 

[rabas]

Sorry, it's a bit off topic, USGS just reported another larger one at 6.1 . Has not hit BKK yet. You said Trumps impeachment would be earthshaking?

Edited November 21, 2019 by rabas

[TopDeadSenter]

7 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Sondland and Trump are hardly strangers. In October, Trump tweeted that he "would love to send Ambassador Sondland, a really good man and great American, to testify."

Don't read too much into that. Trump is a positive guy, a glass half full guy. He always praises and encourages his underlings. 

 

 You know, this impeachment circus has demonstrated one clear unfortunate truth. It has proved the existence in foreign departments of a vile "deep state" of unelected civil servants that consider their hurty feelings more important than the elected Potus's foreign policy. Trump needs to take a stiff broom to this culture that remains from Obama's years. Any diplomat or civil servant that served under Obama in the age of international weakness and appeasement must be fired immediately and replaced with Trump's people. His 2nd term must not be undermined by traitors like his first term.

 

 Punishment must be meted out to the perjurers like Schiff and Vindman who both swore on oath they do not know the "whisleblowers" identity. We just can't allow freak shows like this to keep happening all through the 2nd term.