Chiang Mai: Crackdown on tourists teaching at language institutes and cram schools

[Neeranam]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:54 AM, DUNROAMIN said:

That's funny, I  hope my English is not that bad that I read on the back of their vests "Immigration Police" !!!

How many? Certainly not 6,  as you said.

And they didnt make the arrests, see the original news source.

[DUNROAMIN]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

How many? Certainly not 6,  as you said.

And they didnt make the arrests, see the original news source.

I stand corrected 4 Immigration officers and two tourist police. If they didn't make the arrest what was all the fuss about that needed 6 government officials ??

[PhilAtUbon]

On 11/20/2019 at 5:13 AM, webfact said:

... immigration and labor department officers went to...

I note that this time they didn't "swoop".

I guess they must have been all tuckered out after all the swooping they've been doing over the last week or so.

????

[sunnyboy2018]

On 11/20/2019 at 11:29 PM, CH1961 said:

'I'm sure all the people in your home country love you when shouting to the illegal immigrants without WP and proper visa 'we need hundred thousand of you workers of all levels, welcome ????

We issue WPs and visa in a much more practical and generous way than Thailand. Have you been to London recently? Obviously not.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 11/21/2019 at 2:26 AM, jonclark said:

Hmmm. I spent 40 years teaching in the UK and I can safely say that in that 40 years in met and observed many, many secondary school teachers (who had degrees, PGCE and QTS) many still didn't have the skills to teach. Their teaching assistant were often much more adept at teaching and had lower qualification levels - In fact some of the best 'teaching i ever observed was a 50+ year old women who worked part time as a TA in an inner city school, she had 5 kids and she said she the skills she uses to teach are just the skills she used to raise her kids - patience, love and fun. Unsurprisingly the students loved, and listened to her every word. 

Thats not TEFL you are talking about. Anyway in the days you talk about the system was slack.  People went to TTC because they failed to get into uni. There was no accountability or quality control. This had never been the case with the private sector controlled TEFL training run by Cambridge University,  Intrtnational House, The British Council and Universities in Australia.

[Brigand]

Most smart long term teachers are teaching at uni or tertiary education places as you don't need a teachers license and the facility can hire whomsoever they see fit to without lots of MoE regs/oversight. Most of the teachers I know say teaching at elementary or secondary school is a fool's errand these days as the regs and hoops to jump through aren't worth it for the crappy salaries anf general headaches you get with schools. As for qualified teachers, well, if you got rid of all those fracturing the rules you wouldn't have any teachers here really, some, but not many. How do you attract a real teacher to Nakhon Nowhere for 30k and provincial lifestyle/facilities? Not easy unless they are attached to the place some other way like married to a local etc.

[berrec]

On 11/20/2019 at 12:45 PM, bkkatl said:

I agree. My company, which hires teachers and then forwards them on to Thai public schools, hires people with no work permits often. I get less money every month working legally than the people working illegally. My agency is so big however, that immigration doesn't blink an eye. 

Because I suspect the appropriate size brown paper bag is being passed each month to the appropriate IMO ..... follow the money trail ... all will be revealed 

[moontang]

3 hours ago, Brigand said:

Most smart long term teachers are teaching at uni or tertiary education places as you don't need a teachers license and the facility can hire whomsoever they see fit to without lots of MoE regs/oversight. Most of the teachers I know say teaching at elementary or secondary school is a fool's errand these days as the regs and hoops to jump through aren't worth it for the crappy salaries anf general headaches you get with schools. As for qualified teachers, well, if you got rid of all those fracturing the rules you wouldn't have any teachers here really, some, but not many. How do you attract a real teacher to Nakhon Nowhere for 30k and provincial lifestyle/facilities? Not easy unless they are attached to the place some other way like married to a local etc.

If you call someone making 28k per month, SMART, but yes, for maybe only 4000 per month less, it is usually much more chill, and far fewer guard gates and barb wire fences.

Edited November 23, 2019 by moontang

[Solinvictus]

On 11/20/2019 at 2:36 PM, SuwadeeS said:

Here are some more fact, why not to forget to blame THAIS

 

1. The most teaching agencies are hiring teachers, do not help for get a work permit.

2. Many good Filipino teachers with all the proper documents getting not hired because,

the many school require only native speakers. I have seen many of the native speakers with many hard to under standing dialects. That is why I think it is stupid, not to hire Filipino teachers.

3. There is a lot of money under the table involved. 

4. Of course there are some foreigners they do that, but as a matter of fact Thailand is social political still in stone age.  The government wants to be a global player, but when you look how inhuman they treat foreigners waiting for deportation. That is so disgusting. All the world talk about North Korea, and how the torture prisoners, but why nobody talks about Thailand and how they do not care about human rights. 

I generally agree with your post, except #3. Many schools/parents prefer a native English speaker. Let's be honest, the best pronunciations and continual error free spoken grammar will be from native speakers.

 

Although, there are many positives to say about why schools enjoy hiring 'good' Filipino teachers, I think one unspoken reason they are in abundance at some schools is unlike western teachers in general, I would say Filipino teachers are afraid to 'rock the boat' with Thais or to 'ignore' the gossip amongst Thai teachers. This helps them, especially being another Asian collective culture. That and they cost less and conform better to 'Thainess.' Just my thoughts.

[gimo]

On 11/20/2019 at 1:37 PM, Baerboxer said:

 

Or they get a genuine qualified teacher with a WP and appropriate visa.

      2 problems with that . 1 . As has already been mentioned , ' Genuine ' qualified teachers are hard to find and would want more money than the border hoppers . 2. A lot of the documents provided as proof of qualifications are fake anyway . Something else that is worth mentioning is the fact that people who have a university degree aren't necessarily better teachers than those without . Someone who has learnt a second language ( or more ) and has a lot of experience of other cultures , is very often a better  English teacher than someone with a degree in science for example . The above sentence does not refer to genuinely qualified English language teachers .

[samsensam]

14 minutes ago, gimo said:

      2 problems with that . 1 . As has already been mentioned , ' Genuine ' qualified teachers are hard to find and would want more money than the border hoppers . 2. A lot of the documents provided as proof of qualifications are fake anyway . Something else that is worth mentioning is the fact that people who have a university degree aren't necessarily better teachers than those without . Someone who has learnt a second language ( or more ) and has a lot of experience of other cultures , is very often a better  English teacher than someone with a degree in science for example . The above sentence does not refer to genuinely qualified English language teachers .

 

qualified and experienced teachers with any common sense and who choose to work here, can and do  work for reputable education providers; the teachers i know have PGCEs and earn a good living at international curriculum schools.

 

education providers should not be putting unqualified and inexperienced individuals in the classroom. the ministry of education should be working alongside immigration to put a stop to this practice as these owners are, in my opinion, equally guilty legally and more so morally as they are effectively duping the students, and parent's of students, being 'taught' by these 'teachers'.

 

 

[BigC]

On 11/20/2019 at 6:13 PM, A Los for words said:

Yes, I'm pedantic, but the standard of English in this discussion is appalling. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Maybe we need more under qualified  English  teachers  then lol

 

 

[BigC]

On 11/23/2019 at 5:37 PM, Solinvictus said:

I generally agree with your post, except #3. Many schools/parents prefer a native English speaker. Let's be honest, the best pronunciations and continual error free spoken grammar will be from native speakers.

 

Although, there are many positives to say about why schools enjoy hiring 'good' Filipino teachers, I think one unspoken reason they are in abundance at some schools is unlike western teachers in general, I would say Filipino teachers are afraid to 'rock the boat' with Thais or to 'ignore' the gossip amongst Thai teachers. This helps them, especially being another Asian collective culture. That and they cost less and conform better to 'Thainess.' Just my thoughts.

Also down tk what parents want.

 

I don't  want Philippino teachers  or indians teachers 

 

I don't  even like Canadian  or American  teachers 

 

I want English  teachers  with English  accents  teaching  my kids

 

I am not into all this ethnic  rubbish

 

My kid has an American  accent now and i an  not  happy

 

School blames it on cartoons which is absolute  rubbish

 

I watched  cartoons and i don't  have an american accent..

 

Before she started with  an Irish  accent when she had an Irish  teacher 

 

But when the Americans  and the canadians  came in it enhanced their American  accent words

 

Things like saying  garage rather than rubbish

 

Saying zee rather  than zed

 

Plus i only  like white teachers 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

On 11/20/2019 at 2:32 PM, fruitman said:

Yes it's vely annoying that NONE of the staff in Siam Paragon or Siam Icon can speak english....so annoying that i won't go shopping there anymore.

At the Taco Bell in Siam Paragon the English was great, and they fully understood "Crunch Wrap Supreme". Mmm.

[moontang]

10 hours ago, BigC said:

Also down tk what parents want.

 

I don't  want Philippino teachers  or indians teachers 

 

I don't  even like Canadian  or American  teachers 

 

I want English  teachers  with English  accents  teaching  my kids

 

I am not into all this ethnic  rubbish

 

My kid has an American  accent now and i an  not  happy

 

School blames it on cartoons which is absolute  rubbish

 

I watched  cartoons and i don't  have an american accent..

 

Before she started with  an Irish  accent when she had an Irish  teacher 

 

But when the Americans  and the canadians  came in it enhanced their American  accent words

 

Things like saying  garage rather than rubbish

 

Saying zee rather  than zed

 

Plus i only  like white teachers 

If he is call trash, garage, the problem may be more than the teacher.  

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

11 hours ago, BigC said:

Also down tk what parents want.

 

I want English  teachers  with English  accents  teaching  my kids

 

I am not into all this ethnic  rubbish

I imagine there's plenty of those back in England then. Not so many of them coming to the LOS anymore, with the stagnant wages being offered teachers, and your weak pound giving them less baht, which they once relied upon to supplement the low wage here. In their place, at the schools I've been to, more Filipinos and Africans, and poor American sods like me. Best take the kids on a few holidays back to Ol' Blighty, or find a strapping young English lad to give em a few online lessons, mate. ????

[Langkawee]

Ubon Joe, So no blacklisting for 10 years? because teachers are never arrested in Thailand for working illegally, I guess because teachers are respected under Buddhism. BTW what is the punishment for being arrested for working illegally in Thailand?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Langkawee

[Langkawee]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:26 AM, jonclark said:

Hmmm. I spent 40 years teaching in the UK and I can safely say that in that 40 years in met and observed many, many secondary school teachers (who had degrees, PGCE and QTS) many still didn't have the skills to teach. Their teaching assistant were often much more adept at teaching and had lower qualification levels - In fact some of the best 'teaching i ever observed was a 50+ year old women who worked part time as a TA in an inner city school, she had 5 kids and she said she the skills she uses to teach are just the skills she used to raise her kids - patience, love and fun. Unsurprisingly the students loved, and listened to her every word. 

So true, qualified teachers often too rigid to communicate effectively, and native speakers often speak worse than non-native speakers. Teaching is an innate talent. Qualifications will not help.

[moe666]

I have to ask how qualified these teachers are, if they are actually qualified and licensed teachers. If they are fully qualified they have no problem obtaining a job teaching in a top notch school making 4 to 6 thousand dollars a month. These people can also obtain good paying jobs world wide in top notch jobs. It seems these people working in the low level schools and language schools do not have the required level of qualifications and proper licenses issued from their home country

[Jackson B]

On 11/20/2019 at 12:35 PM, keith101 said:

Why not apply for the right visa and just work legally ?

Perhaps because, like in so many countries these days, it is getting harder and harder to fulfil the excessive requirements of the law and obtain a visa and permit. The tedious chore of obtaining the "right" paperwork puts off many well-meaning companies and schools and NGOs from even applying for a work permit. Even working for a Thai ministry is treated as a case of "mai bpen rai".

[Langkawee]

On 11/26/2019 at 8:32 AM, Langkawee said:

Ubon Joe, So no blacklisting for 10 years? because teachers are never arrested in Thailand for working illegally, I guess because teachers are respected under Buddhism. BTW what is the punishment for being arrested for working illegally in Thailand?

As far as i know teachers have never been charged for breaking immigration laws in the past, yes, arrested but never charged or deported. So is this fake news?

[Solinvictus]

 

On 11/25/2019 at 7:43 AM, BigC said:

Also down tk what parents want.

 

I don't  want Philippino teachers  or indians teachers 

 

I don't  even like Canadian  or American  teachers 

 

I want English  teachers  with English  accents  teaching  my kids

 

I am not into all this ethnic  rubbish

 

My kid has an American  accent now and i an  not  happy

 

School blames it on cartoons which is absolute  rubbish

 

I watched  cartoons and i don't  have an american accent..

 

Before she started with  an Irish  accent when she had an Irish  teacher 

 

But when the Americans  and the canadians  came in it enhanced their American  accent words

 

Things like saying  garage rather than rubbish

 

Saying zee rather  than zed

 

Plus i only  like white teachers 

American English is the best by far mate. Should be proud of your son for speaking it clearly! BTW do yourself a favor and get a dicktionary.  No worries, I posted one for ya.

 

Whew..glad I didn't hear you say that in front of me.

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Solinvictus

[RyanWalker]

21 hours ago, Solinvictus said:

 

American English is the best by far mate. Should be proud of your son for speaking it clearly! BTW do yourself a favor and get a dicktionary.  No worries, I posted one for ya.

 

Whew..glad I didn't hear you say that in front of me.

 

"American English is the best by far" you can be glad you did not say that <deleted> in front of me though.. Just saying

[moontang]

Kind of ironic that the worst accents in the US come from New England.  Some of the Brits speak with a nuetral accent, most do not.

[BigC]

On 11/25/2019 at 6:40 PM, moontang said:

If he is call trash, garage, the problem may be more than the teacher.  

Called rubbish 

[Langkawee]

Were they prosecuted in court, fined and deported? Or is this just fake news? If so, what was the court penalty, blacklist penalty, baht fine penalty? real News please,

[moontang]

Nearly, an identical situation in China:. https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1004550/the-foreign-teachers-caught-up-in-chinas-education-clampdown

[Langkawee]

On 12/10/2019 at 8:34 AM, moontang said:

Nearly, an identical situation in China:. https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1004550/the-foreign-teachers-caught-up-in-chinas-education-clampdown

Not the same. Teachers in Thailand only get a warming to get a work permit next time. This is fake news. They were only arrested as a polite reminder that they need a work permit. The fault clearly lies with the Thai schools not assisting foreign employees to be legal. 

[moontang]

3 hours ago, Langkawee said:

Not the same. Teachers in Thailand only get a warming to get a work permit next time. This is fake news. They were only arrested as a polite reminder that they need a work permit. The fault clearly lies with the Thai schools not assisting foreign employees to be legal. 

There are also similar issues with being encouraged to get the wrong visa in order to circumvent rules, and the delay games..and the simple fact that only one third are legal.  I doubt it is much higher, here.

[NancyL]

On 12/6/2019 at 8:37 PM, RyanWalker said:

"American English is the best by far" you can be glad you did not say that <deleted> in front of me though.. Just saying

I remember my father getting very upset when I started speaking with a New York city accent like my 1st grade teacher instead of with the neutral U.S. accent that he favored.  He wasn't happy, either that my mother, who grew up on a large farm in south-central Ohio could sometimes slip into the West Virginia hillbilly accent that the farmhands employed by her father used, despite her Ivy League college education.

 

I've found that here in Thailand a neutral American accent seems to be most understood by Thai people -- probably because that's what they hear most often from movies, and yes, cartoons.