Unexpected result at CM immigration on Wednesday. Need help.

[BizMarkDee]

Ok. In a nutshell I went to CM Immigration on Wednesday to get a Non-Immigrant “O” Visa (for retirement) that I would then apply for a year extension after 60 days. I have had a Non-Immigrant “O” Visa (for retirement) with yearly extensions since 2013. This year because I am an American and the consulate is no longer giving a letter of proof of income, (which I didn't know about it until I tried to get an appointment)... I could not get an extension. I was forced to make my first border run to legally stay in Thailand and currently here on a visa exemption. The information that I thought I was getting from ThaiVisa and elsewhere was that I just needed to prove I have pension income that meets the 65,000 BHT requirement by having 65,000 (or more) transferred into a Thai Bank and getting a letter from the bank of this fact and have my bank book with me. The person that my Thai GF and I talked to over the phone from CM Immigration told us that because I have already had a 'retirement' visa that lapsed only this year and have been living in Thailand for 7 years, 2 or 3 months of proof of my 65,000+ pension income from abroad into a Thai Bank would be sufficient.

 

So that was the game plan I was going by. So, after making two border runs and getting extensions I had my 2-3 months of proof and my Bank Book and my letter from my Thai bank. Just in case I had other proof of my pension from America and American Bank statements documenting that I receive these funds monthly. I went to CM Immigration Wednesday with my Thai GF and the officer said, "Mai Dai." He said I needed 800,000 Bht in the bank because I can not get a letter of proof of income from my consulate. That was the only way. Proof of monthly income of 65,000 in a Thai Bank will not do. I can use that to get a yearly extension but to get the preliminary 90 day Non-Immigrant “O” Visa (for retirement) I needed 800,000 Bht in a Thai Bank and a letter from the Bank stating that fact. That was it. He would entertain no further discussion about this.

 

My question is, "Is this the case?" If so I wish I would have known this sooner. It would have saved me some time. But it doesn't seem to match the info I was getting before. Is this a brand new change? It seems weird. But if it true its true and I will deal with it.  

 

  

Edited November 21, 2019 by BizMarkDee

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

My question is, "Is this the case?

The new income rules only apply to extensions. I haven’t seen/heard anything regarding applying for a Non O without an embassy letter. In the past it was 800K or an embassy income letter so they are probably going by those rules.

[Thailand]

Tourist visa to Non O to extension of stay,retirement, requires 800K ,seasoned 2 months and I believe from overseas.

[BizMarkDee]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

The new income rules only apply to extensions. I haven’t seen/heard anything regarding applying for a Non O without an embassy letter. In the past it was 800K or an embassy income letter so they are probably going by those rules.

Yes. I think you are right. What threw me is the bad info I got from CM immigration over the telephone. 

[Chazar]

8 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

What threw me is the bad info I got from CM immigration over the telephone. 

get  used  to  it ,  its  everywhere  in Thailand from   small companies to big to govt dept's  i trust not a  word  they say on any subject.

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

Yes. I think you are right. What threw me is the bad info I got from CM immigration over the telephone. 

Plus they may have not shown "leniency" having only a few months of 65k when used for the extension

[BizMarkDee]

2 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Tourist visa to Non O to extension of stay,retirement, requires 800K ,seasoned 2 months and I believe from overseas.

Thanks. I think the 800K is what is required if you are doing it from Thailand. I still think you can get an OA in your home country based on pension. But I am not for sure. Does anyone know for a fact that this is true? (I think OA also requires insurance now.) If I can get an OA at home I might do that. But I might not come back. This whole experience and some other things has soured me on Thailand. I have been here 7 years. That is something I have to decide once I get there. I think I am going to spend a few months wrapping my affairs up here just in case I decide not to come back.   

[Sticky Wicket]

12 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

Yes. I think you are right. What threw me is the bad info I got from CM immigration over the telephone. 

It's opaque on purpose so they can make unilateral decisions and create maximum pain

[BizMarkDee]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Plus they may have not shown "leniency" having only a few months of 65k when used for the extension

No. That is definitely not the problem. I think it is procedural. He gave no hint more months would do. And it makes sense. You need 800k or a proof of income letter. If your country is not providing the income letter. You need 800K. (I wish it wasn't so.) 

[BizMarkDee]

9 minutes ago, Chazar said:

get  used  to  it ,  its  everywhere  in Thailand from   small companies to big to govt dept's  i trust not a  word  they say on any subject.

You are right. I know better. I have wasted months in pursuit of something I would never be qualified for from the beginning. 

[BoBoTheClown]

4 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

No. That is definitely not the problem. I think it is procedural. He gave no hint more months would do. And it makes sense. You need 800k or a proof of income letter. If your country is not providing the income letter. You need 800K. (I wish it wasn't so.) 

I think you are very confused. People are using the 65,000 baht method everyday at the CM immigration office. 

[TheAppletons]

19 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

Thanks. I think the 800K is what is required if you are doing it from Thailand. I still think you can get an OA in your home country based on pension. But I am not for sure. Does anyone know for a fact that this is true? (I think OA also requires insurance now.) If I can get an OA at home I might do that. But I might not come back. This whole experience and some other things has soured me on Thailand. I have been here 7 years. That is something I have to decide once I get there. I think I am going to spend a few months wrapping my affairs up here just in case I decide not to come back.   

  If you obtain a new O-A visa at home, you will be subject to the new law requiring you to purchase Thai health insurance.  Went into effect on 31 October.  It's suboptimal insurance and overpriced.  

 

  But to answer your question, yes, you should be able to obtain a new O-A visa using the income method.

Edited November 21, 2019 by TheAppletons

[BizMarkDee]

15 minutes ago, BoBoTheClown said:

I think you are very confused. People are using the 65,000 baht method everyday at the CM immigration office. 

For an extension. I am convinced the officer is right. I need a proof of income letter or 800K. If my consulate will not provide the income letter I have only one resort. 800k. Now extensions are different. And he said so. He said I don't need a proof of income letter. I can prove my income through monthly deposits of 65,000 into a Thai Bank and a letter from the Thai Bank.

Edited November 21, 2019 by BizMarkDee
clarity

[BizMarkDee]

2 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

  If you obtain a new O-A visa at home, you will be subject to the new law requiring you to purchase Thai health insurance.  Went into effect on 31 October.  It's suboptimal insurance and overpriced.  

 

  But to answer your question, yes, you should be able to obtain a new O-A visa using the income method.

Thank you. And yes I knew about the health insurance. But not that it is overpriced and suboptimal. Thanks for that info. 

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

For an extension. I am convinced the officer is right. I need a proof of income letter or 800K. If my consulate will not provide the income letter I have only one resort. 800k. Now extensions are different. And he said so. He said I don't need a proof of income letter. I can prove my income through monthly deposits of 65,000 into a Thai Bank. 

for extensions the 65k a month seems to require "leniency" i.e. if you have less than 12 months, so even if you'd got the O the subsequent extension may have been a problem

[BizMarkDee]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

for extensions the 65k a month seems to require "leniency" i.e. if you have less than 12 months, so even if you'd got the O the subsequent extension may have been a problem

Understood. Yes. You are right. 

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

Understood. Yes. You are right. 

An alternative for you is to see an agent to end the pain of Immigration. Maybe someone can recommend an agent in Chang Mai and send you a message

[Olmate]

14 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

For an extension. I am convinced the officer is right. I need a proof of income letter or 800K. If my consulate will not provide the income letter I have only one resort. 800k. Now extensions are different. And he said so. He said I don't need a proof of income letter. I can prove my income through monthly deposits of 65,000 into a Thai Bank and a letter from the Thai Bank.

I’d say an agent would be able to assist to have the condition waived in your case!

[Langkawee]

38 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

Thanks. I think the 800K is what is required if you are doing it from Thailand. I still think you can get an OA in your home country based on pension. But I am not for sure. Does anyone know for a fact that this is true? (I think OA also requires insurance now.) If I can get an OA at home I might do that. But I might not come back. This whole experience and some other things has soured me on Thailand. I have been here 7 years. That is something I have to decide once I get there. I think I am going to spend a few months wrapping my affairs up here just in case I decide not to come back.   

SE Asia ezy pzy for visas. Only Thailand makes it difficult.

[BizMarkDee]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

An alternative for you is to see an agent to end the pain of Immigration. Maybe someone can recommend an agent in Chang Mai and send you a message

I am open to that plan. Thanks. 

[BizMarkDee]

3 minutes ago, Olmate said:

I’d say an agent would be able to assist to have the condition waived in your case!

Do you know of one? I am interested. 

[jonwilly]

I have used Assist Thai Visa since they opened, and consider them a reputable and trustworthy company.

I personally believe that Frangs do not know the correct ways to deal with Thai Immigration Police Officers and an agent is best way to go.

 

john 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, BizMarkDee said:

You are right. I know better. I have wasted months in pursuit of something I would never be qualified for from the beginning. 

You need to use the agency that charge 25kbht for your VISA extension, then there won't be a problem with no money in the bank.

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You need to use the agency that charge 25kbht for your VISA extension, then there won't be a problem with no money in the bank.

Going rate is circ 12,500 for the year extension and 20,000 for the first non imm O and year extension

[deej]

48 minutes ago, BizMarkDee said:

Do you know of one? I am interested. 

The Colonel (directly opposite the  Cmai Immgr Dept)

Ask for Cindy. who i am sure will lay your cards on the table with intergrity.

Fees approx in line with other Visa Agencys in Cmai

but has Ample free customer parking on their door step .and a short stroll to the Immgr Dept

Very best of luck

[ubonjoe]

4 hours ago, BizMarkDee said:

I went to CM Immigration Wednesday with my Thai GF and the officer said, "Mai Dai." He said I needed 800,000 Bht in the bank because I can not get a letter of proof of income from my consulate. That was the only way. Proof of monthly income of 65,000 in a Thai Bank will not do. I can use that to get a yearly extension but to get the preliminary 90 day Non-Immigrant “O” Visa (for retirement) I needed 800,000 Bht in a Thai Bank and a letter from the Bank stating that fact. That was it

That is nonsense and false info. I think you need to go back an try to talk to a different officer.

You can use the income option to apply for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration. You should only need one or 2 months of transfer into a Thai bank from abroad.

I am sure you will need a statement form the bank showing the transfers came from abroad. They may also want a letter from the bank detailing your transfers such as this one. Example-BankLetter-Monthly-Deposits.pdf

If all else fails you may have to go out for a single entry non-o visa at a nearby embassy or consulate.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

for extensions the 65k a month seems to require "leniency" i.e. if you have less than 12 months, so even if you'd got the O the subsequent extension may have been a problem

There is no need for leniency for the first extension of stay using the income option. The police order states only 1 or 2 months are required. Also the OP is applying for a non immigrant visa entry not an extension of stay which has the same requirements of only 1 or 2 months.

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, BizMarkDee said:

Do you know of one? I am interested. 

I’ve a mate in CM who uses an agent in Soi Bukhoa

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, Langkawee said:

SE Asia ezy pzy for visas. Only Thailand makes it difficult.

I suggest you do more research on your comment. I do not find it difficult at all.

Also, several SEA countries have changed/made more difficult and expensive their Visas recently.

This being said, I hope it certainly is not everyone's desire to downgrade/degrade their golden years to a 3rd world lifestyle environment.

[Olmate]

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I suggest you do more research on your comment. I do not find it difficult at all.

Also, several SEA countries have changed/made more difficult and expensive their Visas recently.

This being said, I hope it certainly is not everyone's desire to downgrade/degrade their golden years to a 3rd world lifestyle environment.

Perhaps he meant applying there for here?