Lost Passport due to agent witholding

[Myran]

23 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

My friend is obviously worried they are now weeks overstayed and with no passport in hand or if they even have a new visa.

 

My friend's friend's friend told me that a passport of a "better country" is worth a lot of money.

 

 I hope you've got his/her ( agent????) real name and address, otherwise you'll be fragged. ????

 

" My friend is obviously worried they are now weeks overstayed and with no passport in hand or if they even have a new visa."

 

The use of "they" implicates that more passports were given to the agent? 

 

 

   

No. "They" is simply used to refer to a person of unknown gender.

[GalaxyMan]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

well no you could have done it yourself, that conversion is a normal activity of immigration

First time, nervous about succeeding, felt like it was well worth the cost to make sure that it all went down correctly. No regrets.

[bkkcanuck8]

On 11/29/2019 at 12:35 PM, Tayaout said:

If the police catch you on overstay you go straight to immigration detention center for couple days/weeks and get automatic 5 years ban. Getting out of Thailand and paying the fine at the airport is not the same procedure and doesn't involve detention with 150 peoples in a Thai jail. 

 

So if I was on overstay, I would avoid contact with police at all cost even if my passport is stolen. 

That could be a problem, since before getting a new passport you have to get a police report to go to the embassy.  Sort of catch 22.  Going to the airport without a passport... will land you in detention anyways.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

You don't need an agent for a 90 days Non-Immigrant O Visa in Thailand. You just convert a 60 days TR Visa or a 30 days Visa exempt at the local immigration office. The cost is 2000 baht.

Exactly what I did.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, DJ54 said:

Avoid pissing in someone’s Wheaties... Go to the office where

your agent works. Explain to whom ever is there what you need 

and hopefully get results. 

 

If yiu decide to report it leave the country and I’d think long and hard about coming back if you had to throw someone under the bus....

My guess, the passport has already been lost and the agent is hoping against hope that they can delay and hope it turns up.

[buick]

18 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

That could be a problem, since before getting a new passport you have to get a police report to go to the embassy.  Sort of catch 22.  Going to the airport without a passport... will land you in detention anyways.

as noted by another, the 'regular' police aren't concerned with overstay.  they'll issue you the police report for the lost passport.  it is the 'immigration' police that focus on overstayers.  i've had some trouble with the 'regular' police, they didn't ask for my passport, they didn't ask where i lived, they did ask how much money i was going to pay to settle the matter !!

 

as an example (immigration police nabbing an overstayer):

 

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by buick

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, moe666 said:

It sounds like the friend was doing something illigal like sending his passport out of country for a visa.

So many daft posts on this thread and the usual petty bickering.

 

I bet 10 baht op is going for a retirement extension or non imm O and retirement extension, this can take weeks, so no need to get panicky until 4 weeks+. Daft going to police \ getting a new passport until agent says it's lost

 

Op has gone AWOL anyway so we will probably never know

[lazygourmet]

24 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

So many daft posts on this thread and the usual petty bickering.

 

I bet 10 baht op is going for a retirement extension or non imm O and retirement extension, this can take weeks, so no need to get panicky until 4 weeks+. Daft going to police \ getting a new passport until agent says it's lost

 

Op has gone AWOL anyway so we will probably never know

Exactly...

That takes from three to six weeks for an agent to get any kind of entrance converted to a Non-O ; and then after their are going to apply for one year retirement extension which will take a few more days.

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

... I bet 10 baht op is going for a retirement extension or non imm O and retirement extension, this can take weeks, so no need to get panicky until 4 weeks+. Daft going to police \ getting a new passport until agent says it's lost

The OP wrote > The agent keeps insisting the passport will return 'next week' - which has been said several weeks in a row, but can't give any clear idea on when the passport will return or if the new visa has even been done. My friend is obviously worried they are now weeks overstayed and with no passport in hand or if they even have a new visa.

I agree that the OP could have been way more precise (e.g. what type of Visa service the agent was expected to perform, and how many weeks the passport was already handed over and since how long he is getting the 'next week' answer).

When handing over a passport for sure you ask when you will get it back, so imo the several 'next week' responses he got when starting quering about it are worrying/alarming.

OP only posted yesterday, so him clarifying some of the above would be welcome.

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Peter Denis

[Isaanbiker]

On 11/29/2019 at 2:36 PM, spiekerjozef said:

NOT possible! it's always gonna be an overstay, the longer he waits the more he's gonna risk a ban.

How do you know that?

 

Do you have good connections to a high immigration officer who's got the right stamps? 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Isaanbiker
Typo

[Isaanbiker]

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The OP wrote > The agent keeps insisting the passport will return 'next week' - which has been said several weeks in a row, but can't give any clear idea on when the passport will return or if the new visa has even been done. My friend is obviously worried they are now weeks overstayed and with no passport in hand or if they even have a new visa.

I agree that the OP could have been way more precise (e.g. what type of Visa service the agent was expected to perform, and how many weeks the passport was already handed over and since how long he is getting the 'next week' answer).

When handing over a passport for sure you ask when you will get it back, so imo the several 'next week' responses he got when starting quering about it are worrying/alarming.

OP only posted yesterday, so him clarifying some of the above would be welcome.

 

Agreed! The Sisaket foreign crime force will solve the issue in no time. 

[torturedsole]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When handing over a passport for sure you ask when you will get it back, so imo the several 'next week' responses he got when starting quering about it are worrying/alarming.

Could be but could also be that the agent doesn't want to advertise four to six weeks so as to not put the customer off the sale.  

[scubascuba3]

59 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Could be but could also be that the agent doesn't want to advertise four to six weeks so as to not put the customer off the sale.  

Yes, very possible, with all this insurance nonsense probably record numbers going to agents right now

[Fairynuff]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:05 PM, lopburi3 said:

If a person meets the requirements the official cost would be 2,000 for visa and 1,900 for extension plus a little for official paperwork from bank so about 10x the official cost.

Reminds of visiting a national park

[Fairynuff]

11 hours ago, steve187 said:

so not straight forward then, 2,000 baht for a non imm 'O' visa as part of a conversion process, so 33,000 baht for what

For the service of an agent. Why do so many people get so defensive about other people’s money?

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

For the service of an agent. Why do so many people get so defensive about other people’s money?

Because there is no authorized agent system in the immigration system perhaps?

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Because there is no authorized agent system in the immigration system perhaps?

That doesn’t explain anything, irrelevant to my comment.

[steve187]

8 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

For the service of an agent. Why do so many people get so defensive about other people’s money?

you can get defensive about wasting your own money, how can you get defensive about someone else wasting their money,

 

in this case 33,000 baht is a waste of money, and an excessive charge, there must have been some sort of getting around the rules involved, the going rate for an agent to smooth the path with an immigration office to do the work that they should be doing for 2.000 baht and 1,900 baht is about 18,000 baht, that's a conversion and a years extension. anything over this rate either entails a fiddle with the rules and could come back and bite the person in the a**e, or a silly waste of money

if people did not pay 'over the top agents fees' then the agents would have to drop their charges to a more sensible rate

[wayned]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

you can get defensive about wasting your own money, how can you get defensive about someone else wasting their money,

 

in this case 33,000 baht is a waste of money, and an excessive charge, there must have been some sort of getting around the rules involved, the going rate for an agent to smooth the path with an immigration office to do the work that they should be doing for 2.000 baht and 1,900 baht is about 18,000 baht, that's a conversion and a years extension. anything over this rate either entails a fiddle with the rules and could come back and bite the person in the a**e, or a silly waste of money

if people did not pay 'over the top agents fees' then the agents would have to drop their charges to a more sensible rate

IMHO, people pay what the service is worth it to them and what they can afford.  I got 5 visas through a travel agent while I was living in Samui back in the late 1990s, early 2000s.  They all were issued "legally" in Penang.  The agent traveled to Penang on Sunday got the visas at the consulate and traveled back to Samui Via Hat Yai through the Sadao border crossing.  It never cost me more than 6500 baht.  If I had done it myself I estimated that it would take me as long or longer , cost me as much or more and I would be away from my business for a few days.  It made sense to me.  They would also do the activation of the second entry at Sadao for 1200 baht.  They were all legal; 2 double entry tourist visas, 2 double entry Non "O" visas and one 1  one year Non "O" visa which I have been extending ever since  for either marriage or retirement. Prices have risen since then, the exchange rate for the USD has gone from 56 to 1 to what it is now, 30 to 1 but I doubt that I would pay 35000 baht today but to some its worth it for various reasons that don't have to be dishonest..

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, moe666 said:

It sounds like the friend was doing something illigal like sending his passport out of country for a visa.

Not likely. A Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa Entry can be converted into that of a Non-Imm-O. It is like getting a Visa in country BUT it is already stamped 'USED' and is of no further consequence really. A 'Permit to Stay' stamp of 90 days comes with it. I don't like to think of it as a Visa, as it does not actually permit or assist 'Entry'... you got that already. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by jacko45k

[brianthainess]

On 11/29/2019 at 12:35 PM, Peter Denis said:

In case the agent has an office I would definitely go for #3,

#1 - Saying it is 'lost' will most probably be looked at as an attempt to circumvent your overstay.

#2 - The longer you wait, the graver the situation becomes. 

#3 - Pity you did not do that one, before your permission to stay expired.  But imo the best option left. 

Note: If the agent does not have an office, or you do not have any ID or credentials of him #3 is basically same as #1. 

I presume he has the Agents phone number.

[hereforgood]

11 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

For the service of an agent. Why do so many people get so defensive about other people’s money?

Absolutely when others earn my money then they can tell me how to spend it. 

[Bruce404]

To be super cautious, never give more than a minute or two of custody (e.g., upon checking into a hotel) of your passport to an "agent", hotel employee, motorbike rental shop, or other person asking for it as collateral without first demanding to photograph close-up both sides of the person's Thai National Identity card, his or her face, and their mobile telephone number (test the number that it rings in your presence).  Maybe even obtain also a handwritten receipt for taking custody of your passport, and a photo of its main page while held up alongside the custodian's face.

This way, the police can more easily find the person if the passport is somehow "lost" and not returned promptly when promised.

Also, it's a good idea always to have a photograph (on paper or in one's phone, or better both) of all relevant pages of one's passport, including one's current entry stamps and the TM.6 form stapled into it by Immigration upon your arrival.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Bruce404

[steve187]

3 hours ago, Bruce404 said:

To be super cautious, never give more than a minute or two of custody (e.g., upon checking into a hotel) of your passport to an "agent", hotel employee, motorbike rental shop, or other person asking for it as collateral without first demanding to photograph close-up both sides of the person's Thai National Identity card, his or her face, and their mobile telephone number (test the number that it rings in your presence).  Maybe even obtain also a handwritten receipt for taking custody of your passport, and a photo of its main page while held up alongside the custodian's face.

This way, the police can more easily find the person if the passport is somehow "lost" and not returned promptly when promised.

Also, it's a good idea always to have a photograph (on paper or in one's phone, or better both) of all relevant pages of one's passport, including one's current entry stamps and the TM.6 form stapled into it by Immigration upon your arrival.

better to not lose site of the passport, and never give to a m/c renter

[torturedsole]

3 hours ago, Bruce404 said:

To be super cautious, never give more than a minute or two of custody (e.g., upon checking into a hotel) of your passport to an "agent" ...

Good luck with that for immigration purposes.  

[moe666]

On 12/1/2019 at 7:50 AM, wayned said:

IMHO, people pay what the service is worth it to them and what they can afford.  I got 5 visas through a travel agent while I was living in Samui back in the late 1990s, early 2000s.  They all were issued "legally" in Penang.  The agent traveled to Penang on Sunday got the visas at the consulate and traveled back to Samui Via Hat Yai through the Sadao border crossing.  It never cost me more than 6500 baht.  If I had done it myself I estimated that it would take me as long or longer , cost me as much or more and I would be away from my business for a few days.  It made sense to me.  They would also do the activation of the second entry at Sadao for 1200 baht.  They were all legal; 2 double entry tourist visas, 2 double entry Non "O" visas and one 1  one year Non "O" visa which I have been extending ever since  for either marriage or retirement. Prices have risen since then, the exchange rate for the USD has gone from 56 to 1 to what it is now, 30 to 1 but I doubt that I would pay 35000 baht today but to some its worth it for various reasons that don't have to be dishonest..

In a sense they were a legal stamp but someone else had you passport out of country, did the passport also have the stamps from thailand to penang and back. I believe that is a offense. I have no problem with what you did but legal uuuu maybe

[wayned]

2 hours ago, moe666 said:

In a sense they were a legal stamp but someone else had you passport out of country, did the passport also have the stamps from thailand to penang and back. I believe that is a offense. I have no problem with what you did but legal uuuu maybe

Yep, passports had all the stamps necessary showing that I left Thailand and entered Malaysia and visa versa.  Things were rather lax back then and whether or not it was totally "legal" the immigration officers at the border all bought into it as agents showed up with stacks of passports to be stamped in and out of both Thailand and Malaysia.  That's actually where I met the agent that I used, in the line at the Thai immigration checkpoint at Sadao when I activated the second entry of my first tourist visa and sat with her on the bus back to Samui the next morning.  There was no broad advertising of this activity on websites like Thai Visa back then, it was broadcast via word of mouth or else the practice might have cost much more.

[Toadie]

Have your friend inform agent that they have no other option then to report the passport as lost and to give details of how unless passport is returned.

 

Yes, it opens a can of worms but its their worms not your friends. You just politely explain the agent is putting him at undue risk.

 

Your friends priority is having a valid passport with correct, legal visas. Otherwise Embassy stop and leave ASAP. And money back thank you!

 

Don't be scared pushing back on these people. Politely but firmly

 

End of the day think who has most skin in the game. Your friend can be deported and pay overstay. Couple 000s whatever. Agent, immigration under scrutiny?

[Kwasaki]

On 11/29/2019 at 10:38 AM, Stuck01 said:

My friend is obviously worried they are now weeks overstayed and with no passport in hand or if they even have a new visa.

That's why most or nearly all people go to the nearest immigration office of where they wish to stay. 

[scubascuba3]

Any update? @Stuck01