Pattaya: It's official - Pattaya tourism down the pan, Chinese off to Vietnam and Indians the last hope

[Leaver]

On 1/9/2020 at 6:46 PM, Ron jeremy said:

Hate to break the news to you, but it's been happening for quite some time. Don't get out much now do we? Where are you from?

ubon banana tree?

I think that banana tree in Ubon will be having a lot more expats seeking shade under it in the future.  ????

[kinyara]

On 1/9/2020 at 12:50 AM, Leaver said:

I know.

 

I have been to Vietnam several times.

 

I have stated on this forum before, Vietnam is my Plan B.  I have even picked out the condo block, and told the condo manager to contact me when the place is filling up with long term expats, which I have been told by friends there, is happening quite fast now, with expats fleeing Thailand. 

 

Is there a Vietnam forum you can recommend ?

[Inn Between]

On 12/13/2019 at 9:14 PM, rooster59 said:

Since the middle of that month until now occupancy rates at Pattaya hotels are down 20% on where they should be. Normally at this time of year hotels would be full, he said. 

It's not as bad as I thought from what people are saying. Perhaps they'd better stash away all they can in case it's down 30 to 40% next high season.

 

The Thai people and gov't have created their own many-headed tourism monster over the years, confident that there was no other place in the world to compete with Thailand and completely losing focus of what made it such a desirable destination, especially for the more-frugal adventurer.

 

Greed and xenophobia have probably made the biggest long-term contribution to any economic suffering Thais will face, and those tendencies are too deeply rooted to be changed anytime soon. It will be interesting to see how far Thailand sinks in the area of tourism before attitudes truly change, if they actually can. 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

 

Is there a Vietnam forum you can recommend ?

TV has one.  Check it out. It hasn't been there that long.  I guess TV can see the market shift also.

[kinyara]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

TV has one.  Check it out. It hasn't been there that long.  I guess TV can see the market shift also.

I had a look but there only seems to be a couple of active topics in the last month and one of them was on the subject of scamming. 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

I had a look but there only seems to be a couple of active topics in the last month and one of them was on the subject of scamming. 

You could start your own thread.  ????

[starchild5]

Being an Indian, if we are your last hope, you could as well dig your own grave, It ain't gonna happen.

The entire Pattaya is a Western Concept, Nightlife never existed in India for 1000s of years nor in Asia. Only through the Western Cultural Influence, nightlife became what it is in Asia. When Westerners went out at night, it was way past our bedtime. We already know Pattaya R&R history during the war, so lets not go there.

Non-Western Cultures can try it, and TRY TO MILK IT without understanding the core CONCEPT behind Night Life and it will crash. 
 

Asians converted nightlife into a money making GREEDY machine. The whole concept of Nightlife has become one big greed driven industry.
 

Whats more shocking is that Thai's actively are cutting western tourist away, which is incredibly dangerous and the End Game for Pattaya...The people running the show in Thailand are Naive kids ..newsouls, who do not understand Western Culture, The Origin of Money Really.

The moment you remove Western Tourist, The money disappears as well...Money is not simply a printed piece of paper, it has Subtle Energy Associated with it which has to come through a western guy for it to do anything meaningful and stick around to the culture he is genetically associated with..I know it sounds absurd but you cannot fool genetics nature with greed...An Indian Money is entirely different than a western money...flowing through Pattaya...

10,000 daily spend is a Joke but even if its 40,000 per day, it wont do anything for Pattaya sustainability wise. It will disappear. We in India do not have in our genetic makeup to sustain pattaya or nightlife, its a one off thing and 99.999% of Indians will never ever retire in Pattaya.
 

--------------------------

Thailand is making an incredibly dangerous mistake by trying to shun western tourist. It is THE END if Western Tourist go away..Its Not in the Numbers, not even in the amount of money, Its about Genetics really.

The money of western tourist will STICK AROUND while Money from an Indian, Chinese will disappear, but if you are young, naive you will not understand this but the current condition of pattaya will make you understand the only way Pattaya can ever be revived back is to bring Western Tourist Back..Hell, if i was a mayor, i would pay western tourist to stay in Pattaya. 

You need western tourist to sustain a culture they gave to the world.

When you see lot of Indians around and Less and Less Western tourist, the next Wave is not far behind which is one of POVERTY,  and Non Economical Activity. We Asians can't think beyond money, Thailand just got lucky due to Vietnam war. This was no ingenuous Thai Chinese mind to create Pattaya..It was a sleepy fishing village, never forget that Thailand. It is the westerners who made what pattaya is today.

[Langkawee]

On 12/14/2019 at 10:05 AM, nev said:

They will be begging expats to come back soon its only a matter of time. 

 

No they won't. Do your research and you'll know why.

[uli65]

this is nonsense, of course they will begging expats to come back very soon. their greediness is to strong.

 

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

On 1/11/2020 at 9:16 PM, kinyara said:

 

Is there a Vietnam forum you can recommend ?

 

Sorry to say but there is nothing like Thai Visa for Vietnam. However, there are FB pages for various VN cities. Some are atrociously combative, e.g. HCMC (I left group years ago). Some are very nice, e.g., Da Nang-Hoi An Expats. It takes a strong Admin to run an FB group. 

 

Cambodia Expats Online has occasional Vietnam topics but no particular separate sub-forum.

[Rimmer]

2 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

Sorry to say but there is nothing like Thai Visa for Vietnam. However, there are FB pages for various VN cities. Some are atrociously combative, e.g. HCMC (I left group years ago). Some are very nice, e.g., Da Nang-Hoi An Expats. It takes a strong Admin to run an FB group. 

 

Cambodia Expats Online has occasional Vietnam topics but no particular separate sub-forum.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/forum/240-vietnam-forum/

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

6 hours ago, Rimmer said:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/forum/240-vietnam-forum/

 

Right. I committed a wording kerfuffle. I meant to say that within Vietnam, there is nothing resembling Thaivisa forum  for the whole of Vietnam. 

[morrobay]

On 12/31/2019 at 3:14 PM, Leaver said:

I am not suggesting TAT's numbers are accurate, but due to the sheer number of coach buses I see, I would not be surprised if number are up. 

 

The problem is, the money from these bigger numbers is not there.  Their spend is way down, when compared to the traditional tourist market.

According to the chart not only are TAT numbers up there is also increasing revenue from tourism. https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+of+foreign+tourism+revenue+2010+through+2019&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=4BpvGbk4zbP6iM%3A%2CvH4n1k9PKn__mM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQdmAVYS  

But then GDP is going down ? Whats going on, some unusual revenue distributions ?

Edited January 14, 2020 by morrobay

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, morrobay said:

According to the chart not only are TAT numbers up there is also increasing revenue from tourism. https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+of+foreign+tourism+revenue+2010+through+2019&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=4BpvGbk4zbP6iM%3A%2CvH4n1k9PKn__mM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQdmAVYS  

But then GDP is going down ? Whats going on, some unusual revenue distributions ?

Can you fix your link?

 

When I click on it, I get several unrelated graphs and charts. 

[morrobay]

The page contains two columns of graphs . The related are: top left Thai tourism revenue. Right 3 down same. Right 5 down GDP

[Leaver]

17 minutes ago, morrobay said:

The page contains two columns of graphs . The related are: top left Thai tourism revenue. Right 3 down same. Right 5 down GDP

Might have to hear from other members about your link.  It could be my browser, but I have tried your link in two browsers. 

 

Top left is Sri Lankan Tourism Revenue.  Right 3 down relates to China, and right 5 down relates to Kenya. 

[KhunFred]

Thai government has made it very clear what they want. What they want is TOO MUCH. Expats and tourists should vote with their feet. I will be leaving forever in mid-summer. The Philippines seems to offer much more reasonable terms.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, KhunFred said:

Thai government has made it very clear what they want. What they want is TOO MUCH. Expats and tourists should vote with their feet. I will be leaving forever in mid-summer. The Philippines seems to offer much more reasonable terms.

Never say never in relation to Thailand, Fred, but you are correct, Thailand is heading down a path that is not user friendly for expats.

 

Have you considered basing yourself in The Phillies, and holidaying regularly to Thailand?  You pick up the easy and cheap long expat visa for your base, and can holiday on free 30 day visa exemptions.  The flights are cheap.

 

If immigration ever give you grief, it's just back to your base in The Phillies.  No big problem. 

 

 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 12/14/2019 at 10:05 AM, nev said:

They will be begging expats to come back soon its only a matter of time. 

 

Doubt that this will happen quickly. They are slow-thinkers. Once they realise what tourists they need, Pattaya will be deserted by businesses and girls, i.e. a ghost town. And no, I don't see families going there in droves either.

[morrobay]

17 hours ago, Leaver said:

Might have to hear from other members about your link.  It could be my browser, but I have tried your link in two browsers. 

 

Top left is Sri Lankan Tourism Revenue.  Right 3 down relates to China, and right 5 down relates to Kenya. 

Ok the confusion was from difference in display , phone/full screen

[Leaver]

On 1/15/2020 at 2:49 PM, morrobay said:

Ok the confusion was from difference in display , phone/full screen

Yes, strange figures, indeed.

 

Particularly when the tourism industry is such a huge employer in Thailand. 

[Leaver]

On 12/14/2019 at 2:05 PM, nev said:

They will be begging expats to come back soon its only a matter of time. 

 

The Chinese tourist market is a fickle market, and we may see how fickle shortly.  The expat market was a stable market, until the new visa laws. 

[toast1]

> I witnessed an Old Indian Lady the other day haggling the price  of a large amount of " Silk " products she was about to possibly buy from a Small Shopping Mall Stall.

The Thai store owner was really flustered, as this Old Lady was really aggressive in her manner.

 

I have seen this quite few times. Usually, well actually always women! An unpleasant woman arguing with a Thai over the price of sunglases in Pantip Plaza, he eventually told her to f-off, then gave me a 20Bt discount with a warm smile. 

 

Come back sexpats, all is forgiven!

 

 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 1/14/2020 at 5:42 PM, Leaver said:

Have you considered basing yourself in The Phillies, and holidaying regularly to Thailand?  You pick up the easy and cheap long expat visa for your base, and can holiday on free 30 day visa exemptions.  The flights are cheap.

I'm thinking of doing exactly that. Already gave up my condo so I don't have to worry about paying double rent, and everything is cheaper in the Philippines anyway. Bangkok isn't what it used to be. Girlfriend would be <deleted> though. Maybe it's time to end the lease on that too. (just kidding - I don't pay her)

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

I'm thinking of doing exactly that. Already gave up my condo so I don't have to worry about paying double rent, and everything is cheaper in the Philippines anyway. Bangkok isn't what it used to be. Girlfriend would be <deleted> though. Maybe it's time to end the lease on that too. (just kidding - I don't pay her)

I have two friends doing this, but they are in Vietnam.  They come every 2 to 3 months. 

 

They pick up the cheaper cost of living, with no stress from authorities, and holiday to Pattaya regularly on 30 day entries, so Thailand see no visa money from them, and they no longer have to comply with any visa requirements here.

 

Return flights with Vietjet land in Suvarabhumi, and now Vietjet have flights to Utapeo.  

 

Easy and cheap visas in Vietnam, although there is some information that is may change on the 1st July.  I have spoken to them about it.  They are aware of it, but no one there is panicking.  They seem to think it will only be enforced for certain nationalities.

 

They have never had a problem with Thai Immigration because they are not here on back to back 30 day visas, and can show a current multiple entry Vietnam visa, or a VOA letter, and a return flight back in 2 weeks.

 

It seems they get the best of both worlds, and it's only a 75 minute flight away. 

 

 

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, Leaver said:

It seems they get the best of both worlds, and it's only a 75 minute flight away.

Specifically, what is  there in Thailand for them that they are missing in Vietnam? 

[Leaver]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Specifically, what is  there in Thailand for them that they are missing in Vietnam? 

Their friends.  Some Thai bar girls.  The nightlife.

 

I have no doubt the frequency of their visits will decrease over time, but for now, they are happy with regular visits to Thailand, but without Thailand's BS.    

[Leaver]

On 1/14/2020 at 9:57 PM, StayinThailand2much said:

Doubt that this will happen quickly. They are slow-thinkers. Once they realise what tourists they need, Pattaya will be deserted by businesses and girls, i.e. a ghost town. And no, I don't see families going there in droves either.

Ahhhh, but they have the virus to blame now.  Very convenient.

[ronnie round head]

On 12/14/2019 at 7:28 AM, jacko45k said:

Your 'avin a laugh!

maybe 10 thousand baht a month per family

[thaibeachlovers]

Never thought I'd say this, but I hope Pattaya goes broke. It used to be cheap and cheerful, but became expensive and unhappy. Plus, they devoted themselves to the Russians and then the Chinese to the exclusion of farangs.

Pattaya, IMO, needs to be destroyed to be able to be rebuilt better. Sadly, I doubt the opportunity will be seized. More likely they will do the same as Patong and Phi Phi that rebuilt the same <deleted><deleted> after the tsunami as before it was washed away.