Sa Kaeo: Brit, 71, living in Thailand killed while making U-Turn on motorcycle

[bellhui1b]

all this bull about who is to blame.   how many Thais ever give way ? so how will they ever use a roundabout god knows how they manage when driving in the EU and UK because the richer bmw  Mercedes drivers think they bought the road when they bought the car 

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, Jane Dough said:

Have a lie down old chap. Then try again - sometime coherence arrives unexpectedly.

 

Rooster

Is that how you spend your day with? 

I hope you'll get it once so that your weekly written outpourings will reach a proper Level. In the meantime have a drink, a herbal of course. I recommend GINGKO..... ????

[Namplik]

RIP to the poor fellow, anybody in here knew him? 

The scooter does not look so damaged, I wonder if the guy had a helmet on? Thousands of lives could be saved in Thailand every year if they used a proper helmet.... 

[lumply]

9 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

I agree about the elderly driving on motorbikes on Thai roads. My 72 year old friend even has difficulty walking and when he drives his motorbike he wobbles all over the place. Last year, a dog ran out between parked cars and he hit the dog and ended up on the concrete road with cuts and bruises. He was lucky. Next time maybe not.

Another pathetic ageism post suggesting 70+ year olds are incompetent riders. How about this? I am 70 yo I own a 300HP Porsche and hold a pilot license. What occurred to this gentleman is regrettable but surely cannot immediately be attributable to his age. RIP

[Phet Chop Boi]

14 minutes ago, lumply said:

Another pathetic ageism post suggesting 70+ year olds are incompetent riders. How about this? I am 70 yo I own a 300HP Porsche and hold a pilot license. What occurred to this gentleman is regrettable but surely cannot immediately be attributable to his age. RIP

As people get older , their bodies tend to deteriorate , eyesight isnt as good and reaction time is slower and cannot be bothered to use the indicator .

Its not just their age , its a medical face that peoples bodies dont work as well when they get older and thus their driving skills arent as good

[richard_smith237]

37 likes - if that doesn’t highlight the age demographic of this forum I don’t know what else would !

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, lumply said:

Another pathetic ageism post suggesting 70+ year olds are incompetent riders. How about this? I am 70 yo I own a 300HP Porsche and hold a pilot license. What occurred to this gentleman is regrettable but surely cannot immediately be attributable to his age. RIP

 

The tragic accident was quite possibly age related.... We’ll never know. 

 

What ’some of you’ must know, if you are being truly honest with yourselves is how your abilities with everything have changed over the years as you have matured towards your twigh-light years.

 

Even at 45 years old I am aware of how my reactions (on the football field) have slowed in comparison to my younger years...

I can’t notice this until playing alongside guys in their 20’s and early 30’s - then the difference in reaction is noticeable. So I know my reaction in a car is poor than a 20 year olds, this is compensated by experience, but at some point the reduced reactions, reduced eye sight etc will outweigh the gained experience and my driving / riding ability on a whole will start to reduce.

 

Those who refuse to accept this happens are just pulling the wool over their own eyes, in doing so they may not be aware of their weaknesses as such pose an increased risk to themselves and others. Of course, given the quality or driving around us there are risks to others everywhere but those risks are also against us if our abilities are diminished. 

 

 

The word ‘Ageist’ has been thrown around as if this nugget of political correctness alone is sufficient to kneecap the common sense argument that as we get older our abilities deteriorate - it doesn’t, it just means those who use this word don’t have an intellect argument to backup their wishful thinking. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, hugocnx said:

14 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Geeze, these news bulletins are becoming a monthly thing

 

Elderly foreigner killed while making a U-Turn

 

I have some elderly friends that ride, it surprises me how competent they are on the roads at their age. 

Saying that Id say there are around 1 to 2 percent of the elderly that can do this, ride competently on Thai roads.

The rest of you elderly for the sake of your family and friends dont ride a motorbike on Thai roads, it a very selfish thing to do for all involved when your riding skills are lacking and a death happens. 

There are many people that suffer, family, friends and 3rd party involved in the accident.

Pardon me? Who do you think you are. "for the sake of....etc." What a laugh you are.

You elderly? I can almost see you pointing.

 

It seems like kind advice, I would have expected someone in their twilight years to be more mature in understanding this and not take offense.

[Elmer Fudd]

The very young people are a problem on the road as well as the very old. Either way it won't bring this fellow back. 

[RJRS1301]

4 hours ago, Phet Chop Boi said:

As people get older , their bodies tend to deteriorate , eyesight isnt as good and reaction time is slower and cannot be bothered to use the indicator .

Its not just their age , its a medical face that peoples bodies dont work as well when they get older and thus their driving skills arent as good

The “degenerative “ course of ageing varies for people depending on genetics,environment, lifestyle when younger, exercise, diet, alcohol consumption, so many variables, some have deteriorating eyesight, but so do 10 year olds.

Yes as we age things can and do change physically and cognitively. It is purely a unique process, and linking ability to age as some do, is disingenuous  

[Assurancetourix]

15 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

Almost all Thais don't understand how to use roundabouts, they just treat them as crossroads. The carnage would multiply massively  if u-turns were replaced by them.

 

Because most of the time they are badly designed and badly made;
You just have to do them as in Great Britain; it is then impossible to make the wrong direction when arriving at them.

[Assurancetourix]

7 hours ago, lumply said:

Another pathetic ageism post suggesting 70+ year olds are incompetent riders. How about this? I am 70 yo I own a 300HP Porsche and hold a pilot license. What occurred to this gentleman is regrettable but surely cannot immediately be attributable to his age. RIP

I do not own a Porsche of 300 CV, but have used my MTBike every day for 14 years that I live in Thailand;
by the way, I'm 71 years old.
If it is true that I avoid U-turns as much as possible, I sometimes drive along a busy road and lose a few seconds or even a minute or two to make a U-turn does not bother me not at all because I generally do like the Thai people on two motorized wheels:

get as far to the left as possible, stop and look behind before starting its maneuver;
Thai motorists do not understand that a two-wheeler can do the same maneuvers as them, that is to say to move to the right to go on the U-turn lane.
The good thing is that more and more U-turns have been transformed with construction barriers so that users cannot do anything.
The only real problem is that it can prevent certain trucks, especially semi-trailers from performing the maneuver

[robblok]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

37 likes - if that doesn’t highlight the age demographic of this forum I don’t know what else would !

 

Yea you got it right.. i mean its common knowledge that we get worse as we age but none here (me included) likes to admit it. I mean I am still trying to do as much as i did when younger (pushing weights and so on) not admitting im more injury prone. 

 

But you can keep your brain quite healthy at older age as long as you use it and not drown it in alcohol (oops now 90% of the forum is excluded) ????

[thailand49]

13 hours ago, Mark mark said:

No not around here I think, ... Smaller Viechels keep clear of the Bigger ones ! ... Like in or on a smaller Viechel, ...  you will be the one likely killed and well, then no more arguments. even if you were in the right.

 

Practically, .. around here ... when on a smaller Viechel, ... it is much wiser just to let the Bigger ones go in front. ... Like they all probably go faster also, and well I have noticed this also ... ALL slower Viechels let faster ones go in front, ...  (Around here) ... like a good idea, ... so you do not end up with a conga line of angry <deleted> behind you ! ? Right.

You are right when it comes to vehicles cars trucks etc.. but my reference is regarding a motorbike vs. a car regardless of size.  Many Thais I have spoken to when I watch daily the Thai T.V. station, police, insurance seem to think vehicle must look out for motorbikes regardless when they even break the law and the vehicle is responsible.

 

A good example, motorbike all the time come out from smaller Soi without ever looking, slowing down just enter the main road turning left. Have you heard that one that vehicles are supposed to look after them.

 

I just saw on T.V. yesterday a review on an accident, at a wishbone intersection standard practice is if you are unsure to slow down and proceed with caution. At the junction car was coming the motorbike basically came from the right entering the vehicle slow down the bike didn't basically drove right into the car. The police said the vehicle should have watch out for the motorbike. 

 

I once ask the police in conversation my neighbor, what happens if two bike are involved? do you enforce the law or do you enforce " this is thailand "  how does one stop on the dime to protect a biker when they are breaking the law? endorsing this type of thinking is endorsing bad behavior?  Put this all in perspective is the reason why 85% of bikers are dying.

 

When it comes to motorbikes and a vehicle how did anyone ever come up with above, you are going up against a ton of steel, bikers are unprotected, there isn't a win the math is simple conclusion you look after yourself!

Edited January 9, 2020 by thailand49

[Headgame]

No one is arguing that basic motor and cognitive skills decline with age. It's a fact. However, that fact alone does not automatically mean a senior rider is not perfectly capable of riding a motorbike here in TH. That is also a fact. I recognize that at 75, I need to be more cautious, more in tune with my surroundings, and always to ride within my skillset. I expect to know when it's time to hang up my gear. I hope that will be at least five more years away. That's my goal. Riding my bike gives me my joy. I start my day being very happy. I never want that to stop but I know it will.

[Pedrogaz]

I'm late 60s and gave up riding motorbikes a few years back. I find my balance is not what it was. 

[xylophone]

18 hours ago, rech said:

RIP

But 71 years old and driving bike ? why ? this is so wrong but it seems that aging men cannot accept the truth.

 

 

but it seems that aging men cannot accept the truth.

 

And what truth would that be I wonder?

 

I'm 73 this year and have been driving a motorbike since I first arrived here full-time in 2006, and when I was a young lad, I drove a motorbike for a few years from the age of 15 to 20. In addition I've driven cars since I was 18 and have never had an accident which was my fault, nor on my bike for that matter.

 

I have to agree with other posters when they mentioned the young idiots here, screaming around on their souped up, thin wheeled noise machines, not wearing any crash helmets and oblivious to any road rules whatsoever, come to that oblivious to any other road users.

 

As regards age, I see more farangs young and not so young, driving here, many without a clue and many without a crash helmet, when they should know much better........but hey, they are on holiday and everything changes, because as soon as they arrive here, they are an expert on motorbikes and so on, just like the Chinese are........yeah right!

 

And as for the sense or ability to use a roundabout – – absolutely non-existent, so U-turns become the norm and to be able to get into the right hand "fast lane" to be able to make that right exited U-turn is dicing with death, especially here in Thailand.

 

[Mark mark]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

You are right when it comes to vehicles cars trucks etc.. but my reference is regarding a motorbike vs. a car regardless of size.  Many Thais I have spoken to when I watch daily the Thai T.V. station, police, insurance seem to think vehicle must look out for motorbikes regardless when they even break the law and the vehicle is responsible.

 

... And every thing.

 

When it comes to motorbikes and a vehicle how did anyone ever come up with above, you are going up against a ton of steel, bikers are unprotected, there isn't a win the math is simple conclusion you look after yourself!

Yes, I agree with you and well written.

 

I can say from my own view, after 35 Years here relatively seriously, that it works like this, it is like for the Poor Peoples street stalls blocking up and making a Real Hassle out of many of Thailand’s city footpaths, ... My rich Thai friends, (The People that I knew) told me that “Yes the Poor people’s stalls are just a REAQL HASSLE ! Blocking the foot path, ... But BUT, the Poor People need to make an Income ! … So we rich people, just have to put up with it”. … And Deference to Motorbikes is likewise I think, .... "Poor People need to get around ! ...So we just have to put up with them" ... What they have all ! here have said to me … in their own ways.

 

Thailand and also it's Government Medical system in particular, is about the only REAL socialist country that I know ! (I think) ... like many other Countries talk about it and even pretend it … but basically at the end of the Day, "Money Talks and <Deleted> walks” ! … As Usual, … (As one of our present day statesman, ? who I am not allowed to mention, is sure to tell us all ...)

 

… Yes I have also been told to be Deferent to motor cycles ... Though well the Physical, as you say ... If you are on one you should not push it, as Dead men tell No truths, if they have been killed !!! … But we all should remember, and I have seen this also, ... Motorcyclists can !!! … Sue you ! for just as much as a Car owner can I think ? … When Medical and Loss of Income may be taken in to account ?

 

… So yes if trying to do a U-turn in very Heavy Traffic … I might just get a bit close to a Motor cycle that is un economically filling in the only gap between the cars !!! …. But I never NEVER will get close enough, to ever be involved in an accident with them ! … Under any Circumstances. !!!

 

Yes, Thanks for your Lines on it also mate.

[pellets]

21 hours ago, rech said:

RIP

But 71 years old and driving bike ? why ? this is so wrong but it seems that aging men cannot accept the truth.

 

 

WHY do you think this is "wrong"?
Not EVERY person needs an "walking chair" after 70!

I know many guys here driving around TH on their big bikes, year after year!
I was invited to a friends 75th birthday party last night, he is a member in a big MC club, and goes for long trips around Thailand several times every year on his big bike.
I am soon 66, and been driving big bikes for 50 yrs, and absolutely NO plans to stop now. The smallest of my four bikes is a 1300 Cc, and i hardly never ride this small toys you talk about as motorcycle.
They are scooters, motorbikes OR "Ladybikes" as some people say...

[rech]

On 1/8/2020 at 4:29 PM, AlexRich said:

You very rarely read an article about a 71 year old on a motorcycle in the British newspapers, as most are driving cars, not motorcycles. The problem with motorcycles and bicycles is that even a small collision can end a life. If you are retiring in Thailand a car or 4x4 should be high on your list of priorities. I feel for the man and his no doubt young family, RIP.

 

Clearly ! But maybe they are too busy getting drunk at the bar before riding their bikes, to be able to think clearly.

Funny old people, I hope that I will never be like them.

 

 

[rech]

6 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

I'm late 60s and gave up riding motorbikes a few years back. I find my balance is not what it was. 

 

You are smart.

 

 

[rech]

3 hours ago, pellets said:

WHY do you think this is "wrong"?
Not EVERY person needs an "walking chair" after 70!

I know many guys here driving around TH on their big bikes, year after year!
I was invited to a friends 75th birthday party last night, he is a member in a big MC club, and goes for long trips around Thailand several times every year on his big bike.
I am soon 66, and been driving big bikes for 50 yrs, and absolutely NO plans to stop now. The smallest of my four bikes is a 1300 Cc, and i hardly never ride this small toys you talk about as motorcycle.
They are scooters, motorbikes OR "Ladybikes" as some people say...

 

 

Do what you want, anyway you won't be able to come here whining when you will be in the news...

Anyway it's sad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RJRS1301]

2 minutes ago, rech said:

 

Clearly ! But maybe they are too busy getting drunk at the bar before riding their bikes, to be able to think clearly.

Funny old people, I hope that I will never be like them.

 

 

No all "old people" drink to being over the limit or impaired, many young ones do as well though, many do not

[Cricky]

15 hours ago, rech said:

21 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

I'm late 60s and gave up riding motorbikes a few years back. I find my balance is not what it was. 

 

You are smart.

Nope, this is common sense.

 

As we age our coordination, balance, reaction time and many other things change.

Pedrogaz identified he had an issue and acted accordingly.

[Huckenfell]

On 1/8/2020 at 12:59 PM, Vacuum said:

From behind or left?

These stupid U turns are deadly i have nearly been involved twice. He was probably hit from behind.

 

[rech]

1 hour ago, Huckenfell said:

These stupid U turns are deadly i have nearly been involved twice. He was probably hit from behind.

 

 

Old men not able to pay for a car or not smart enough to drive one are the stupid ones, not uturns...

 

 

 

[rech]

On 1/9/2020 at 5:03 PM, RJRS1301 said:

No all "old people" drink to being over the limit or impaired, many young ones do as well though, many do not

 

 

old men do not need to ob over any limit, they just need to drive, even at low speed, and wait death coming...

 

 

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, rech said:

 

 

old men do not need to ob over any limit, they just need to drive, even at low speed, and wait death coming...

 

 

Please define “old” in your opinion.

 

[Chaaang]

On 1/8/2020 at 10:01 PM, chrissables said:

Goodbye

Goodbye to you too

[gomangosteen]

Eight pages mostly of posturing from the TV 'Sons of Arthritis' gang, a classic forum p-ing contest, talk of roundabouts (there is not one involved), and the classic Thai-blaming.

 

Not a shred of compassion for the deceased or his family.

 

See you next post...