UK Pensions and related info

[Mike Teavee]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:52 AM, hotandsticky said:

Occupational pensions are different and there is invariably a widow's benefit attached. I have nominated my GF to receive a widow's pension when I have gone.

I've just nominated my GF to receive any lump sum / ongoing payments,  how confident are you that they will honor this only the language used says "Spouse or Civil Partner" obviously I consider her to be my "Civil Partner" but I believe that's not a recognised legal standing in Thailand.

 

I need to update my Will to change what happens to my house anyway... so was thinking of adding my pension in there as an asset to strengthen any case she has in claiming it. 

 

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I've just nominated my GF to receive any lump sum / ongoing payments,  how confident are you that they will honor this only the language used says "Spouse or Civil Partner" obviously I consider her to be my "Civil Partner" but I believe that's not a recognised legal standing in Thailand.

 

I need to update my Will to change what happens to my house anyway... so was thinking of adding my pension in there as an asset to strengthen any case she has in claiming it. 

 

My understanding of the term Civil Partner requires both persons to sign the civil partner register .

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, maxcorrigan said:

Agreed futile, but what do you do about the witness official "stamp" being required, just leave blank?

 

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

What i do in the stamp box is just get the Thai person to sign name in Thai,  write in capitols name in English, put their Thai ID number and telephone number.

And, if you can find a fellow Brit to perform the witnessing function for you, get them to write their NI number in the Official Stamp box.

 

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Today I received my first life certificate form, dated January 8th. As others have already stated, the completed form has to be received by the pensions service within 16 weeks from Jan 8th.

My gut feeling is that every State Pensioner living in Thailand is currently being targeted by DWP for a witnessed Life Certificate to be received at their end by 30 April at the latest. So, if a particular pensioner's form has still not showed up in the post it would IMHO be strongly inadvisable for them to assume that no news was good news, but instead set the ball rolling ASAP (having regard to postal disruption at the UK end at the present time) on the basis of these 2 attachments (which DWP steadfastly refuse to make available for download from the GOV.UK website for some ridiculous reason).

CFN701.pdf IPC698.pdf

Edited February 21, 2023 by OJAS

[Kwasaki]

54 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

And, if you can find a fellow Brit to perform the witnessing function for you, get them to write their NI number in the Official Stamp box.

 

Or you can sent to a Brit in Thailand to sign with EMS return envelope for them to send back to you and then send back the form they don't know you have not been standing in their present. 

 

The official stamping box is not important writing in it as you say is sufficient with a contact phone number.

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

My understanding of the term Civil Partner requires both persons to sign the civil partner register .

Which I’m assuming is a UK thing & not something Thailand has as my understanding is Thailand doesn’t recognise Civil Partners as a legal status. 
 

Will put it on the list of things I need to find out from my Pension company in 3 years when they start paying it me (There are no restrictions on who I can nominate to receive a lump sum should I die before I start drawing the pension so I’ve put her name down for that & hid all the knives!) 
 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[hotandsticky]

9 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I've just nominated my GF to receive any lump sum / ongoing payments,  how confident are you that they will honor this only the language used says "Spouse or Civil Partner" obviously I consider her to be my "Civil Partner" but I believe that's not a recognised legal standing in Thailand.

 

I need to update my Will to change what happens to my house anyway... so was thinking of adding my pension in there as an asset to strengthen any case she has in claiming it. 

 

Pensions fall outside an estate, I believe.

 

If you have nominated your GF you should have received an acknowledgement from the pension trustees. 

 

As you say, a civil partnership is not recognised in Thailand.

 

The bottom line is that pension trustees have not got round to including a phrase significant others' ????. 

 

I am 100% confident that my GF will receive a widows pension; I have confirmation from the trustees and her nomination also appears on online records.

Edited February 21, 2023 by hotandsticky

[Mike Teavee]

26 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Pensions fall outside an estate, I believe.

 

If you have nominated your GF you should have received an acknowledgement from the pension trustees. 

 

As you say, a civil partnership is not recognised in Thailand.

 

The bottom line is that pension trustees have not got round to including a phrase significant others' ????. 

 

I am 100% confident that my GF will receive a widows pension; I have confirmation from the trustees and her nomination also appears on online records.

Thanks, I only nominated her 2 days back (I only think of my pension when they remind me a week or 2 after my birthday) so hopefully will get some form of acknowledgment in the next few days.

 

As mentioned I’m 3 years (- 2 weeks) away from being able to claim my pension but will make sure this is set in stone when it comes to sorting out the final details.

 

As an aside I’m on a DB (Final Salary) Pension but am planning to take the 25% tax free lump sum & from what I can make of this year’s pension quotes it seems this wouldn’t affect any pension she gets at all as she seems to get 50% of my max pension whether I take the tax free amount or not. 
 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Kinnock]

Just consulting the collective Aseannow wisdom ....

 

I turn 66 later this year, and looking at the DWP info it says that my State Pension will be frozen at the level it was when I left the UK. 

 

I moved to Thailand in 2008, so does that mean I get the 2008 pension amount?  Or does it start at this year's rate, and stays frozen going forward?

 

Supplementary question:

 

I've maintained a UK address, so what if I moved back to the UK around the time of 66th birthday, claimed the pension from there, then moved back here, informing them I left the UK this year.  Would my pension now be frozen at the 2023 rate, which got a reasonable inflation hike?

 

Thanks for any info.

[Foxx]

19 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

I turn 66 later this year, and looking at the DWP info it says that my State Pension will be frozen at the level it was when I left the UK. 

 

I moved to Thailand in 2008, so does that mean I get the 2008 pension amount?  Or does it start at this year's rate, and stays frozen going forward?

It will be frozen at this year's rate.

 

If you go back to the UK for a while it will be increased whilst you're there, but will revert to the previous rate if you return to Thailand.

 

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Just consulting the collective Aseannow wisdom ....

 

I turn 66 later this year, and looking at the DWP info it says that my State Pension will be frozen at the level it was when I left the UK. 

 

I moved to Thailand in 2008, so does that mean I get the 2008 pension amount?  Or does it start at this year's rate, and stays frozen going forward?

 

Supplementary question:

 

I've maintained a UK address, so what if I moved back to the UK around the time of 66th birthday, claimed the pension from there, then moved back here, informing them I left the UK this year.  Would my pension now be frozen at the 2023 rate, which got a reasonable inflation hike?

 

Thanks for any info.

Your State pension weekly rate is determined by the date on reaching pension age , in your specific case this is 2023.

In 2008 no eligibility to a pension and thus pension amount had been derived. Thus it can only be frozen from the date of eligibility.

 

 

[Upnotover]

2 hours ago, Kinnock said:

and looking at the DWP info it says that my State Pension will be frozen at the level it was when I left the UK. 

Not correct as you hopefully now know, interesting where you read that?  Here is one statement from GOV on the subject;

 

"Their pension remains payable at the same rate as it was when they first became entitled, or the date they left the UK if they were already pensioners then."

[Kinnock]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

It will be frozen at this year's rate.

 

If you go back to the UK for a while it will be increased whilst you're there, but will revert to the previous rate if you return to Thailand.

 

 

3 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Your State pension weekly rate is determined by the date on reaching pension age , in your specific case this is 2023.

In 2008 no eligibility to a pension and thus pension amount had been derived. Thus it can only be frozen from the date of eligibility.

 

 

Thank you both for the valuable replies!

 

Being frozen at the 2023 rate is not too bad, as there's a significant increase this year, but we all know the system is wrong for us ex-pats.  

 

Luckily, I also have a private pension, although that's currently being eaten away by the scheme fees and dodgy investments .... but that's another story.

[theoldgit]

The retired Civil Servants amongst us will be relieved to learn that our 10.1% pension increase has been confirmed, effective from 10 April. Civil Service pension increase confirmed

[Foxx]

8 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Your State pension weekly rate is determined by the date on reaching pension age

This is not strictly true.  One can defer taking the pension and receive an enhanced rate.  If one doesn't claim one's pension on reaching pension age it is automatically deferred and when it's eventually claimed it will be at a higher rate.

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

The retired Civil Servants amongst us will be relieved to learn that our 10.1% pension increase has been confirmed, effective from 10 April. Civil Service pension increase confirmed

 

 

HSBC gave me 5% (the scheme 'maximum') and ignored requests to apply their discretion to pay a higher rate.

[hotandsticky]

11 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Thanks, I only nominated her 2 days back (I only think of my pension when they remind me a week or 2 after my birthday) so hopefully will get some form of acknowledgment in the next few days.

 

As mentioned I’m 3 years (- 2 weeks) away from being able to claim my pension but will make sure this is set in stone when it comes to sorting out the final details.

 

As an aside I’m on a DB (Final Salary) Pension but am planning to take the 25% tax free lump sum & from what I can make of this year’s pension quotes it seems this wouldn’t affect any pension she gets at all as she seems to get 50% of my max pension whether I take the tax free amount or not. 
 

 

 

 

Correct Mike. The widow's pension is calculated on the original 'gross' amount before the 25% cash free payment.

 

My partner will get that amount (increased to current levels) @ 50%. She will then lose 10% of that because of our 19 year age difference. She will finish up with 45% or around 40,000 Baht per month.

 

It is probably the best provision we can make for our loved ones.

[cleopatra2]

25 minutes ago, Foxx said:

This is not strictly true.  One can defer taking the pension and receive an enhanced rate.  If one doesn't claim one's pension on reaching pension age it is automatically deferred and when it's eventually claimed it will be at a higher rate.

Section 5 of the pension act places in law the weekly amount is based on date on reaching pension age.

Section 15,16,17 gives further enhancements upon this weekly amount for deferring payment.

[OJAS]

16 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Or you can sent to a Brit in Thailand to sign with EMS return envelope for them to send back to you and then send back the form they don't know you have not been standing in their present. 

Or you could even email a scanned form to a suitable pal back in the UK with your section dutifully completed in black ink. Provided they have access to a decent printer they could print it off, complete the witness section, then pop it in a letterbox inside an envelope bearing a second-class stamp.

 

The important thing to ensure of course, though, is that your date and your witnesser's are both the same!

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by OJAS

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

The retired Civil Servants amongst us will be relieved to learn that our 10.1% pension increase has been confirmed, effective from 10 April. Civil Service pension increase confirmed

And on the few occasions that we are troubled for Life Certificates in connection with our CS pensions (just 2 in nearly 15 years of retirement in my experience), it's OK to submit a witnessed version by email. And the witnessing function does not necessarily have to be performed by a non-family individual "of suitable standing in the local community" - last time I got my mother-in-law to perform the honours!

Edited February 22, 2023 by OJAS

[theoldgit]

22 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

My partner will get that amount (increased to current levels) @ 50%. She will then lose 10% of that because of our 19 year age difference. She will finish up with 45% or around 40,000 Baht per month.

 

The improved Civil Service Pension scheme also has a clawback when there's an age difference of this size or higher.

 

I opted to remain on the old scheme which doesn't have the clawback, though I didn't I didn't realise it at the time I made the decision. I must have realised what was round the corner.

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

Correct Mike. The widow's pension is calculated on the original 'gross' amount before the 25% cash free payment.

 

My partner will get that amount (increased to current levels) @ 50%. She will then lose 10% of that because of our 19 year age difference. She will finish up with 45% or around 40,000 Baht per month.

 

It is probably the best provision we can make for our loved ones.

Thanks, funny enough mine is a Barclays pension (I believe yours is HSBC) & my GF is 20.5 years my junior so I'm guessing it will be the same & she will also lose 10% of the money.

 

BUT even then it is enough for her to live a comfortable life so, as you say, probably the best provision we can make them.

 

[DUS]

Hi,

 

Feeling a bit overwhelmed with UK and international tax regulations so I thought I try asking on here. Who knows, maybe someone can provide some info and clarity. Would be great!

 

I have a German passport, used to work in the UK a while back and have now been living in Thailand for the last 6 years or so. From my time in the UK I still have a SIPP which I can start dipping into come the end of this year.   I contacted my pension provider (HL) and asked them about the process. They mentioned the 25% lump sum tax free payment and that the rest would be taxed according to my (PAYG) tax code. When I told them that I don’t have one they wrote back that in that case they would apply an emergency tax rate (I think that was the term they used) which I didn’t like the sound of. Lol

 

Without going into too much detail with this first message, I wondered if there are users on here (Brits or Non Brits) who started drawing down their SIPP whilst not having a UK tax code. How did you go ahead with it? Paying high taxes at source and then claiming it back from HMRC? I am mentioning claiming back tax because my SIPP is fairly small at £20k and I plan to take out an amount below the UK’s annual tax allowance in each of the next 2 tax years.

 

I am just trying to understand what the process is, which forms and supporting documents HMRC would require and so forth. I expect this process to be quite complicated but if someone already went through it maybe he or she can shed some light on it. Looking at gov.co.uk etc is rather intimidating :))

 

I would appreciate any suggestions, info and advice. Thank you!!!

 

Cheers

DUS

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by DUS

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, DUS said:

Hi,

 

Feeling a bit overwhelmed with UK and international tax regulations so I thought I try asking on here. Who knows, maybe someone can provide some info and clarity. Would be great!

 

I have a German passport, used to work in the UK a while back and have now been living in Thailand for the last 6 years or so. From my time in the UK I still have a SIPP which I can start dipping into come the end of this year.   I contacted my pension provider (HL) and asked them about the process. They mentioned the 25% lump sum tax free payment and that the rest would be taxed according to my (PAYG) tax code. When I told them that I don’t have one they wrote back that in that case they would apply an emergency tax rate (I think that was the term they used) which I didn’t like the sound of. Lol

 

Without going into too much detail with this first message, I wondered if there are users on here (Brits or Non Brits) who started drawing down their SIPP whilst not having a UK tax code. How did you go ahead with it? Paying high taxes at source and then claiming it back from HMRC? I am mentioning claiming back tax because my SIPP is fairly small at £20k and I plan to take out an amount below the UK’s annual tax allowance in each of the next 2 tax years.

 

I am just trying to understand what the process is, which forms and supporting documents HMRC would require and so forth. I expect this process to be quite complicated but if someone already went through it maybe he or she can shed some light on it. Looking at gov.co.uk etc is rather intimidating :))

 

I would appreciate any suggestions, info and advice. Thank you!!!

 

Cheers

DUS

 

 

 

 

I assume since you previously worked in the UK , you have a NI number , and a personal tax code from your time in the UK.

The NI number will be linked to any personal tax code applicable.

 

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, DUS said:

Hi,

 

Feeling a bit overwhelmed with UK and international tax regulations so I thought I try asking on here. Who knows, maybe someone can provide some info and clarity. Would be great!

 

I have a German passport, used to work in the UK a while back and have now been living in Thailand for the last 6 years or so. From my time in the UK I still have a SIPP which I can start dipping into come the end of this year.   I contacted my pension provider (HL) and asked them about the process. They mentioned the 25% lump sum tax free payment and that the rest would be taxed according to my (PAYG) tax code. When I told them that I don’t have one they wrote back that in that case they would apply an emergency tax rate (I think that was the term they used) which I didn’t like the sound of. Lol

 

Without going into too much detail with this first message, I wondered if there are users on here (Brits or Non Brits) who started drawing down their SIPP whilst not having a UK tax code. How did you go ahead with it? Paying high taxes at source and then claiming it back from HMRC? I am mentioning claiming back tax because my SIPP is fairly small at £20k and I plan to take out an amount below the UK’s annual tax allowance in each of the next 2 tax years.

 

I am just trying to understand what the process is, which forms and supporting documents HMRC would require and so forth. I expect this process to be quite complicated but if someone already went through it maybe he or she can shed some light on it. Looking at gov.co.uk etc is rather intimidating :))

 

I would appreciate any suggestions, info and advice. Thank you!!!

 

Cheers

DUS

 

 

 

 

 

Speak to the HMRC helpline. As Cleopatra2 said, you must have a NINO and a 10 digit UTR (tax reference). 

 

You want your personal tax allowance applied immediately as it is a bit of a balls ache have to apply to reclaim overpaid tax. No fun paying 40% tx if you don't have to.

[DUS]

13 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

I assume since you previously worked in the UK , you have a NI number , and a personal tax code from your time in the UK.

The NI number will be linked to any personal tax code applicable.

 

 

12 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

Speak to the HMRC helpline. As Cleopatra2 said, you must have a NINO and a 10 digit UTR (tax reference). 

 

You want your personal tax allowance applied immediately as it is a bit of a balls ache have to apply to reclaim overpaid tax. No fun paying 40% tx if you don't have to.

Thank you both!

 

Yes, I do have a NINO and I guess I could find a UTR somewhere in the documents I brought over to Thailand.

 

As you say, hotandsticky, I am dreading the thought of reclaiming overpaid tax (more than once) but at the same time I yet have to figure out a way that payments are, ideally, made gross of UK taxation (if possible). Late last night I noted a page talking of applying for a Nil-Tax code for non-UK residents but need to dig deeper before really understanding if this is even available to me. Also saw a PDF form which related to this but when I saw that it requires the local (i.e. Thai) tax authorities to partially fill out and confirm my tax residency in the Kingdom, I almost immediately gave up hope since I expect this would be impossible to get from the tax man here in Bangkok. But maybe I am overly pessimistic. ????

 

Again, thanks for the initial feedback both of you provided. I will continue researching the topic and maybe, just maybe, HMRC will actually respond to the letter I sent to them 3 months ago. Yeah, right.... ???? Failing that, the HMRC helpline seems to be my last resort. As my 55th birthday is still about 6 months away, I can wait a little bit longer. Having said that, the earlier I have some clarity the better. So maybe I should call them soon. 

 

Cheers and best,

DUS

Edited February 28, 2023 by DUS

[prakhonchai nick]

When the time comes, that a widow's pension is in the offing from an occupational pension scheme, and there is no wife, but a partner, most schemes will pay a pension to the partner on the same basis as they would pay a widow, including a deduction for possible significant age difference (Usually 10 or 12 years difference)

 

However, the biggest problem is, more often than not, proving that the claimant was actually a partner. Having a joint bank account helps, as does a joint tenancy agreement on rented property, or a Will in which the partner is named as a beneficiary and shows him/her living at the same address as the testator. Some pension schemes require a partnership to have been in existence for a minimum of 2 years, unless a child was born during that time.

[hotandsticky]

6 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

When the time comes, that a widow's pension is in the offing from an occupational pension scheme, and there is no wife, but a partner, most schemes will pay a pension to the partner on the same basis as they would pay a widow, including a deduction for possible significant age difference (Usually 10 or 12 years difference)

 

However, the biggest problem is, more often than not, proving that the claimant was actually a partner. Having a joint bank account helps, as does a joint tenancy agreement on rented property, or a Will in which the partner is named as a beneficiary and shows him/her living at the same address as the testator. Some pension schemes require a partnership to have been in existence for a minimum of 2 years, unless a child was born during that time.

 

 

It might be worth noting that where the Farang has been cohabiting, without legally marrying, AND has not bothered to divorce in the UK - it leaves the door open for the former (still) legal wife to make a claim.

 

 

Just nominate your current partner, it keeps it simple as long as the nomination is acknowledged. Even if it isn't directly acknowledged, and recorded, by making the nomination it adds weight to Prakhonchai Nick's evidence of proof above.

[cleopatra2]

6 hours ago, DUS said:

 

Thank you both!

 

Yes, I do have a NINO and I guess I could find a UTR somewhere in the documents I brought over to Thailand.

 

As you say, hotandsticky, I am dreading the thought of reclaiming overpaid tax (more than once) but at the same time I yet have to figure out a way that payments are, ideally, made gross of UK taxation (if possible). Late last night I noted a page talking of applying for a Nil-Tax code for non-UK residents but need to dig deeper before really understanding if this is even available to me. Also saw a PDF form which related to this but when I saw that it requires the local (i.e. Thai) tax authorities to partially fill out and confirm my tax residency in the Kingdom, I almost immediately gave up hope since I expect this would be impossible to get from the tax man here in Bangkok. But maybe I am overly pessimistic. ????

 

Again, thanks for the initial feedback both of you provided. I will continue researching the topic and maybe, just maybe, HMRC will actually respond to the letter I sent to them 3 months ago. Yeah, right.... ???? Failing that, the HMRC helpline seems to be my last resort. As my 55th birthday is still about 6 months away, I can wait a little bit longer. Having said that, the earlier I have some clarity the better. So maybe I should call them soon. 

 

Cheers and best,

DUS

Your pension provider will ask for your NINO . The pension provider will then obtain your Tax Code from the HMRC.

[steve187]

21 hours ago, DUS said:

Hi,

 

Feeling a bit overwhelmed with UK and international tax regulations so I thought I try asking on here. Who knows, maybe someone can provide some info and clarity. Would be great!

 

I have a German passport, used to work in the UK a while back and have now been living in Thailand for the last 6 years or so. From my time in the UK I still have a SIPP which I can start dipping into come the end of this year.   I contacted my pension provider (HL) and asked them about the process. They mentioned the 25% lump sum tax free payment and that the rest would be taxed according to my (PAYG) tax code. When I told them that I don’t have one they wrote back that in that case they would apply an emergency tax rate (I think that was the term they used) which I didn’t like the sound of. Lol

 

Without going into too much detail with this first message, I wondered if there are users on here (Brits or Non Brits) who started drawing down their SIPP whilst not having a UK tax code. How did you go ahead with it? Paying high taxes at source and then claiming it back from HMRC? I am mentioning claiming back tax because my SIPP is fairly small at £20k and I plan to take out an amount below the UK’s annual tax allowance in each of the next 2 tax years.

 

I am just trying to understand what the process is, which forms and supporting documents HMRC would require and so forth. I expect this process to be quite complicated but if someone already went through it maybe he or she can shed some light on it. Looking at gov.co.uk etc is rather intimidating :))

 

I would appreciate any suggestions, info and advice. Thank you!!!

 

Cheers

DUS

 

 

 

 

can you not register on gov.uk, use NI number etc, should be able to sort out coding on there