Is Vietnam the winner in Thailand's visa game?

[Fairynuff]

I’m just back from another visit to Vietnam and much as I really enjoy my trips there I couldn’t be more certain that it’s not somewhere I want to live. I know there’s been endless discussion about this, the pros and cons of Vietnam, whether we ARE leaving in significant numbers or not and how much more immigration nonsense will we put up with here. The reason for my post is that whilst in Dalat I was talking with the hotel owner who after many years of visits I know pretty well. She also has apartments one block of which has 16 apartments all of which are now rented to foreigners. The four newest arrivals are all from Thailand and all have left for visa reasons. Multiply that by any number of apartment blocks in any number of locations and I’d conclude that we’re definitely leaving and the numbers are significant. From my part I’m staying for the foreseeable future but if I go it’ll be somewhere else and Vietnam will still be a regular holiday spot.

[steven100]

so your point is ....  ?

[Andrew Dwyer]

5 minutes ago, steven100 said:

so your point is ....  ?

He went somewhere, it’s a nice place but he doesn’t want to live there ?

[Roy Baht]

No, Vietnam is now clamping down on long-stay tourist visas--and they have nothing like the Non-O long stay. It's not looking for retirees.

New rules go into effect 20 July 2020:

"Accordingly, the amended law stipulates that a foreigner will be allowed to remain for only 30 days in Vietnam when granted a 30-day or longer tourist visa"

https://vietnamnet.vn/en/society/police-profile-foreign-criminals-entering-vietnam-601182.html

[Momofarang]

6 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

No, Vietnam is now clamping down on long-stay tourist visas--and they have nothing like the Non-O long stay. It's not looking for retirees.

New rules go into effect 20 July 2020:

"Accordingly, the amended law stipulates that a foreigner will be allowed to remain for only 30 days in Vietnam when granted a 30-day or longer tourist visa"

https://vietnamnet.vn/en/society/police-profile-foreign-criminals-entering-vietnam-601182.html

"Vietnam’s current tourist visa is valid for up to three months, and the visa holder can stay in the country for the entire period at a stretch. Foreigners have taken advantage of this visa policy to enter Vietnam to commit technology-related crimes or work illegally."

 

Rings a bell, doesn't?

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

No, Vietnam is now clamping down on long-stay tourist visas--and they have nothing like the Non-O long stay. It's not looking for retirees.

Vietnam is a great place for a holiday, no VISA required for me, but I've never considered it as a retirement destination.

Unless you marry or reproduce with a VIet, then you can get a 5 year VISA for $50.

 

Cambodia and the Philippines are the easy places to retire for single men.

[Fairynuff]

20 minutes ago, steven100 said:

so your point is ....  ?

Read my post.

[Roy Baht]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Unless you marry or reproduce with a VIet, then you can get a 5 year VISA for $50.

Yeah, in Vietnam you can get a job, marry or invest (in fact, they've created new visa categories for investors) but retirement is not on the menu.

[Roy Baht]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Cambodia and the Philippines are the easy places to retire for single men.

Cambodia is talking about clamping down too!

https://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/kingdom-drafting-new-law-strengthen-immigration

 

I think the doors of SE Asia are closing

[Fairynuff]

2 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

Yeah, in Vietnam you can get a job, marry or invest (in fact, they've created new visa categories for investors) but retirement is not on the menu.

From my observation and therefore I’m not suggesting facts, it’s easy for foreigners to own and run a business in Vietnam. Observations based on the number of Russians working in Nha Trang.

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

Cambodia is talking about clamping down too!
https://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/kingdom-drafting-new-law-strengthen-immigration

I think the doors of SE Asia are closing

That's talking about immigrants, they only just introduced new long term retirement VISAs to Cambodia in 2017.

Cambodia seems to be making a quick response to the Chinese buying everything.

Although the news item refers mainly to illegal Vietnamese immigrants.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by BritManToo

[Roy Baht]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

That's talking about immigrants, they only just introduced new retirement VISAs to Cambodia in 2017.

Yes but the news that the Chinese have "leased" the Cambodian coast for 99 years and basically taken over Sihanoukville seems to have driven most Western expats away. I guess Phnom Pehn is still livable?

"By 2018, the once-tranquil city was transformed. Sihanoukville today is an enclave of Chinese investments and is peppered with Chinese-run, -operated and -patroned hotels, apartment towers, restaurants and gambling dens. The area is also dotted with Chinatowns, festooned with neon signs in Mandarin replacing Khmer and English language signs."

 

https://theaseanpost.com/article/sihanoukville-has-become-dangerous-playground

 

 

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

I guess Phnom Pehn is still livable?

I've never been to Sooky, but was in Siem Reap and Phnom Penh last year and enjoyed both tremendously.

If there were direct flights from Chiang Mai, I'd go there twice a year.

[bkk6060]

The qualifications here are seem so simple and easy.

If lack of comprehension and lack of funds forces those to a downgraded lifestyle in a 3rd world environment, good luck on it.

1 hour ago, Fairynuff said:

Multiply that by any number of apartment blocks in any number of locations and I’d conclude that we’re definitely leaving and the numbers are significant. 

So some women told you 4 recently came from Thailand.

Did you go door to door to 100's of apartments to confirm your "significant" claim?

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by bkk6060

[ThomasThBKK]

50 minutes ago, Roy Baht said:

Cambodia is talking about clamping down too!

https://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/kingdom-drafting-new-law-strengthen-immigration

 

I think the doors of SE Asia are closing

They also introduced TM30 equivalent last year: https://www.legal.co.th/resources/visa-immigration-law/thailand-immigration-law/cambodia-unveils-system-similar-thailands-tm-30-reporting/

 

 

It's not only Thailand, the whole world is cracking down on easy longstay visa.

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So some women told you 4 recently came from Thailand.

Did you go door to door to 100's of apartments to confirm your "significant" claim?

I've been to Vietnam 4x in the past year, met plenty of tourists and expats while I was there.

His "significant" claim, doesn't appear unreasonable to me.

[Jingthing]

 

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I've been to Vietnam 4x in the past year, met plenty of tourists and expats while I was there.

His "significant" claim, doesn't appear unreasonable to me.

It's funny that there are people that are so heavily invested in Thailand (psychologically and/or otherwise) that they go into aggressive denial mode when faced with the obvious cause and effect of the onerous visa changes. Yes, definitely, more people than usual have already left, are in the process of leaving, are considering leaving (Plan B is a buzzword), or are never coming in the first place. 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Jingthing

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

It's funny that there are people that are so heavily invested in Thailand (psychologically and/or otherwise) that they go into aggressive denial mode when faced with the obvious cause and effect of the onerous visa changes. Yes, definitely, more people than usual have already left, are in the process of leaving, are considering leaving (Plan B is a buzzword), or are never coming in the first place. 

 

Agreed, and also if you visit the other countries you notice they're jam-packed with western tourists.

[ThomasThBKK]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

It's funny that there are people that are so heavily invested in Thailand (psychologically and/or otherwise) that they go into aggressive denial mode when faced with the obvious cause and effect of the onerous visa changes. Yes, definitely, more people than usual have already left, are in the process of leaving, are considering leaving (Plan B is a buzzword), or are never coming in the first place. 

 

It's funny that you guys don't want to understand that Vietnam is just another craphole and in no way better than the hole we live in already, your guys desire to downgrade your life even further is mindblowing.

 

meanwhile in vietnam: 

 

Quote

"This case shows a worrying escalation in the level of force the government is prepared to use to suppress local objections to public infrastructure developments," Gillespie said.

 

Conflicts over land are common in Vietnam, where farmland was forcibly redistributed in the 1970s during Communist rule in the north.

 

Don't we all love some communism.

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ThomasThBKK said:

It's funny that you guys don't want to understand that Vietnam is just another craphole and in no way better than the hole we live in already, your guys desire to downgrade your life even further is mindblowing.

 

meanwhile in vietnam: 

 

 

Don't we all love some communism.

 

Funny, you failed to notice my post didn't even mention Vietnam. Maybe address your strong opinions towards someone that is specifically promoting Vietnam. Personally I have only been there one time many years ago and didn't picture it then as someplace I would want to live. But since then have heard great things about such places as Danang. Nha Trang, and Dalat. IF (a big IF) they introduce a retirement visa then that would be a game changer. 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

Yeah, in Vietnam you can get a job, marry or invest (in fact, they've created new visa categories for investors) but retirement is not on the menu.

Yet.

[steven100]

Nothing wrong with Vietnam, it's a fun place and I quite enjoy going there. But some farang just don't really know where they want to live ....   If you want nice footpaths and everything in order then go live in the US or France or somewhere .... if you want a challenge and can accept things not being perfect then live in Vietnam.

[ThomasThBKK]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Funny, you failed to notice my post didn't even mention Vietnam. Maybe address your strong opinions towards someone that is specifically promoting Vietnam. Personally I have only been there one time many years ago and didn't picture it then as someplace I would want to live. But since then have heard great things about such places as Danang. Nha Trang, and Dalat. IF (a big IF) they introduce a retirement visa then that would be a game changer. 

Funny, you failed to notice you are writing in a vietnam thread. What was the point of your comment if it wasn't vietnam related, exactly?

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

They also introduced TM30 equivalent last year: https://www.legal.co.th/resources/visa-immigration-law/thailand-immigration-law/cambodia-unveils-system-similar-thailands-tm-30-reporting/

 

 

It's not only Thailand, the whole world is cracking down on easy longstay visa.

I don't really think that's true in all cases.

For example, the Philippines.

The Philippines continues to heavily promote their SRRV visa which covers a wide range of ages but as far as more easy, I have been looking at their long standing scheme of offering three year stays based on non visa 30 day entry and numerous in country extensions. Then start over. At basically a cost of one dollar a day. Yes a pain to get all those extensions but that's basically indefinite stays without ever committing to any kind of long term visa at all.

That said for political retribution reasons (not about cracking down on visa runners) Duterte has threatened to make Americans apply for tourist visas. But even then I think Americans could still play that scheme with that visa.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Funny, you failed to notice you are writing in a vietnam thread. What was the point of your comment if it wasn't vietnam related, exactly?

Bait ignored. That post speaks for itself. 

[Roy Baht]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

His "significant" claim, doesn't appear unreasonable to me.

There are definitely fewer Westerners here now. Over the past few years, in my own experience, I have seen people leave--either moving to other countries or dying off.

 

Another metric that has been mentioned is there scarcity of Western goods that can be found in Thai supermarkets. Years ago, Tesco-Lotus had all sorts of things. Now, not so much.

[Roy Baht]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

I don't really think that's true in all cases.

For example, the Philippines.

Yeah, P.I. seems to be the only place in SE Asia still welcoming expat retirees. Of course, to many Thai expats, P.I. is definitely a step down.

[sungod]

2 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

Yes but the news that the Chinese have "leased" the Cambodian coast for 99 years and basically taken over Sihanoukville seems to have driven most Western expats away. I guess Phnom Pehn is still livable?

"By 2018, the once-tranquil city was transformed. Sihanoukville today is an enclave of Chinese investments and is peppered with Chinese-run, -operated and -patroned hotels, apartment towers, restaurants and gambling dens. The area is also dotted with Chinatowns, festooned with neon signs in Mandarin replacing Khmer and English language signs."

 

https://theaseanpost.com/article/sihanoukville-has-become-dangerous-playground

 

 

Yes but the news that the Chinese have "leased" (think you mean annexed) the Cambodian coast for 99 years

[sungod]

As some leave, more turn up.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

3 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

Cambodia is talking about clamping down too!

https://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/kingdom-drafting-new-law-strengthen-immigration

 

I think the doors of SE Asia are closing

 

Thanks for that. I never saw this news item. However, I think it's mostly aimed at many non-documented Vietnamese, which number in the thousands, and possibly Chinese. Then again, many others could get swept up in any changes. But I hope it's not something to worry about too much. 

 

Doors closing in my face, sadly. A few weeks ago I bought a 3-month multi-entry tourist visa for VN in my plan to move back in the spring. VN keeps closing down avenues for long stays there. And now they plan to squeeze harder with the 30-days-and-out rule. I think I just got smacked. With the July 1 law, there's no way anybody living on short-term visas can or will want to stay there. There could very well be an exodus. But where, that's the big question. Guess Cambodia is it. I'm too old to go treading new paths.