How to get a tourist visa for the UK for a Thai National

[theoldgit]

2 hours ago, superal said:

So how does the  " Old Git " account for this ? 

I'm not sure that I can account for it.

Every case is judged on it's merits, I can only assume that Jumbo1968's partner was able to satisy the ECO that she was in a stable relationship with him, and that she had sufficient other pull factors to demonstrate that she was likely to return.
I suppose it really depends on which decision maker deals with each application on the day, that I'm afraid to say is the sytem we're stuck with, maybe there will be more consistency now that applications are being processed in the UK, only time will tell.   

[Jumbo1968]

6 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

I'm not sure that I can account for it.

Every case is judged on it's merits, I can only assume that Jumbo1968's partner was able to satisy the ECO that she was in a stable relationship with him, and that she had sufficient other pull factors to demonstrate that she was likely to return.
I suppose it really depends on which decision maker deals with each application on the day, that I'm afraid to say is the sytem we're stuck with, maybe there will be more consistency now that applications are being processed in the UK, only time will tell.   

It would be interesting to know how a decision is reached, is it a ‘tick box’ situation or an individual going through the documents ?

As far as I was aware all the documents are sent to India and the decisions are made in there but by whom, British Citizens ?
Looking at the posters comments I think he didn’t stress or provide enough proof that he was in a ‘permanent’ relationship in Thailand like myself ?

i do know a colleague who had only been in a relationship for 6 months and his G.F. has since twice been given 6 month Tourist Visas. 

[theoldgit]

Applications are considered by directly employed UKVI staff, who can be any of a number of nationalities.

ECO’s have to work within published guidelines, and their training is quite thorough, though I’m not convinced the consistently of decisions is monitored.

Yours is a good example of a stable relationship in Thailand being used to satisfy the ECO of a reason to return, though I have to say that it was probably despite your 70 pages of evidence, not as a result of, ECO’s have a very short time to reach a decision.

Applications are now processed in Sheffield.

[Jumbo1968]

29 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Applications are considered by directly employed UKVI staff, who can be any of a number of nationalities.

ECO’s have to work within published guidelines, and their training is quite thorough, though I’m not convinced the consistently of decisions is monitored.

Yours is a good example of a stable relationship in Thailand being used to satisfy the ECO of a reason to return, though I have to say that it was probably despite your 70 pages of evidence, not as a result of, ECO’s have a very short time to reach a decision.

Applications are now processed in Sheffield.

When did they move from India to Sheffield ?

[theoldgit]

8 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

When did they move from India to Sheffield ?

The end of January, I posted it on the forum last week.

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, superal said:

I have heard a couple of similar cases and so I am mystified why my lady was refused despite owning her house , own business , car etc and employing 6 people . Me as a sponsor and reference from my son who is in the UK police force . She has no previous criminal history and has never been out of Thailand .  Maybe a Friday afternoon decision ? 

Not on this forum but on another, I have had several 'discussions' on this subject. Sometimes the ECO just doesn't want to allow the visa - despite everything being in order.  When this happens there is usually a common thread - the reasons given for refusal.

 

Let me guess - insufficient reasons to return?

[Jumbo1968]

15 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Not on this forum but on another, I have had several 'discussions' on this subject. Sometimes the ECO just doesn't want to allow the visa - despite everything being in order.  When this happens there is usually a common thread - the reasons given for refusal.

 

Let me guess - insufficient reasons to return?

Insufficient reasons to return is a hard one to pin down, a Thai person could have land, house, car, family but that doesn’t mean they would return.

I put down my G.F. had strong family ties, a son attending school in Thailand and I would withdraw all financial support if she didn’t.

As I said if you can prove you have living long term in Thailand with your partner that goes a long way I think.

In the UK there is no TM30, 90 Day reporting etc, in Thailand they don’t ask for a guarantee that you will return to your country of origin of course if you overstay you’re welcome you will have problems.

[Jumbo1968]

37 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

The end of January, I posted it on the forum last week.

I can’t see where the Visa Centre has moved to Sheffield still states New Delhi ?

[KhaoYai]

44 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Insufficient reasons to return is a hard one to pin down, a Thai person could thave land, house, car, family but that doesn’t mean they would return.

I'm fully aware of that. My point is that ECO's use that one when they are just unhappy with something - they know its a hard one to argue with.

[theoldgit]

59 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I can’t see where the Visa Centre has moved to Sheffield still states New Delhi ?

By Visa Centre I assume you mean where visa applications are processed, as stated the processing moved from Delhi to Sheffield at the end of January.

I suspect that they’ll make an announcement in due course, but wherever applications are processed doesn’t actually affect the applicant.

[superal]

20 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Not on this forum but on another, I have had several 'discussions' on this subject. Sometimes the ECO just doesn't want to allow the visa - despite everything being in order.  When this happens there is usually a common thread - the reasons given for refusal.

 

Let me guess - insufficient reasons to return?

Correct , very disappointing and baffling .  

[superal]

21 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It would be interesting to know how a decision is reached, is it a ‘tick box’ situation or an individual going through the documents ?

As far as I was aware all the documents are sent to India and the decisions are made in there but by whom, British Citizens ?
Looking at the posters comments I think he didn’t stress or provide enough proof that he was in a ‘permanent’ relationship in Thailand like myself ?

i do know a colleague who had only been in a relationship for 6 months and his G.F. has since twice been given 6 month Tourist Visas. 

My lady and I have been together for nearly 9 years ( not married ) with me alternating between Thailand and the UK 3 or 4 times a year . The denied visa application was some 4 or 5 years ago so that in itself should prove our long term relationship ?   ( I am supposing that records are kept by the UK visa centre ) .  Does the fact that I , as the sponsor , own a property in the UK favour or hinder the application ? 

[Jumbo1968]

36 minutes ago, superal said:

My lady and I have been together for nearly 9 years ( not married ) with me alternating between Thailand and the UK 3 or 4 times a year . The denied visa application was some 4 or 5 years ago so that in itself should prove our long term relationship ?   ( I am supposing that records are kept by the UK visa centre ) .  Does the fact that I , as the sponsor , own a property in the UK favour or hinder the application ? 

I don’t  think having a property in the UK would hinder your application more so in your favour as there is accommodation.

 

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, superal said:

Correct , very disappointing and baffling

There has never been an absolute right of appeal for Visitor Visa's as far as I know but many years ago, before they became unreachable 'gods', it was possible to e-mail the ECM (Entry Clearance Manager) and ask him/her to review a bad decision - for example, where an ECO had ignored evidence supplied.

 

Now, there's no chance - you can't even e-mail them. All you can do is try to deal with the reasons for refusal and re-submit.  Its a sad state of affairs for a service that's paid for and they only get away with it because obviously they hold the monopoly. Even so, I find it totally wrong that they don't have to answer for their actions.  A friend of mine submitted an application for his girlfriend a few years back - he was acting as sponsor and supplied plenty of bank statements that proved he had adequate funding. Somehow the ECO missed that and stated that no financial evidence had been supplied. He did eventually get that decision overturned but only after getting his MP involved.  Even he, on reflection, said it would have been easier to just re-apply.

Edited February 10, 2020 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

On 2/9/2020 at 10:49 AM, Jumbo1968 said:

It would be interesting to know how a decision is reached, is it a ‘tick box’ situation or an individual going through the documents ?

ECO's have a set of rules/criteria and guidelines that they are supposed to follow. They have a certain amount of discretion with some types of application.  It has always seemed to me that they exercise that discretion moreso when the visa type carries no right of appeal.

 

Where an appeal is allowed, the situation should in theory, police itself as it would be clear to see when a certain ECO was making decisions where a dispropotionate amount were appealed and subsequently overturned.

 

Having said that, I think is safe to say that we don't see all the bogus applications they have to deal with. The sham marriages, people trying to get to the UK for economic reasons etc. etc. It goes with the territory though and if an ECO isn't up to it - he/she shouldn't be in the job.

[Jumbo1968]

For me ‘barriers’ are being put up, you have to pay for emails and phone calls and not cheap, just under £5 for an email and £1.40 a minute for a phone call. 
is it some thing to do with UK Government’s trying to curb overstayers yet every day loads of people crossing the channel in rubber dinghies and that’s the one they know about.

Are genuine tourists are being denied entry to keep the figures down ?

[NanLaew]

On 2/3/2020 at 6:17 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Problem is apparently too many Thais have overstayed in the past, so thank them for making it hard.

Citation?

 

Otherwise it's rubbish. The UK Immigration rules are hard for just about anyone from a country that needs to get a visa.

[KhaoYai]

29 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

For me ‘barriers’ are being put up, you have to pay for emails and phone calls and not cheap, just under £5 for an email and £1.40 a minute for a phone call. 

That's been the case for a while and its disgusting in my opinion - you pay for the visa application. On the one occasion that I used this service (e-mail), I did not get to communicate with either the ECO that made the decision or his manager. Each e-mail took between 5 and 10 days to obtain a reply - a private company in any other field would never get away with this and keep their customers.

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Citation?

 

Otherwise it's rubbish. The UK Immigration rules are hard for just about anyone from a country that needs to get a visa.

I think its safe to say that the rules are the same for applicants for every country. Applicants from Thailand that fit a certain criteria (females between 18 and 35) are however, screened a little deeper - sadly because of the country's reputation. That came from a member of another forum who was an ex ECO many years ago and seems plausible.

 

I don't think the UK rules are particularly hard for those with a settled life and the means. Unfortunately this catches out those on low incomes who often change jobs/addresses etc. I contrast the case of a friend who applied for a visit visa a few years back. She'd been to university, held a good job for a few years and had her own condo in Bangkok (rented) where she'd lived for several years. I acted as her sponsor for accommodation only as she was staying with me and my wife (Thai) - everything else she provided by herself and submitted the application herself with a letter from me. She had no problem with her visa and has had several since.

 

On the other hand a friend's girfriend had to apply 3 times before she got her visa. She worked as a waitress in a Bangkok restaurant. Her salary was below the tax threshold so in line with many Thai people, she was not given payslips. She had no savings and failed to supply convincing evidence that she was liklely to return to Thailand - simply because she didn't really have any.

 

The first girl would no doubt think the UK rules are not particularly hard but the second would almost certainly think they are.

Edited February 10, 2020 by KhaoYai

[superal]

13 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

For me ‘barriers’ are being put up, you have to pay for emails and phone calls and not cheap, just under £5 for an email and £1.40 a minute for a phone call. 
is it some thing to do with UK Government’s trying to curb overstayers yet every day loads of people crossing the channel in rubber dinghies and that’s the one they know about.

Are genuine tourists are being denied entry to keep the figures down ?

When applying / assisting / sponsoring for a tourist visa for a partner and as an indigenous UK resident , seems to count for nothing . The assumption appears to be that the applicant is not trustworthy and must prove otherwise . Tis easy to gather info on the sponsors credibility as being a UK nationalist and acting as a guarantor should suffice . Not so easy for the actual applicant who may be without reasonable finances . 

 

 

[superal]

13 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

That's been the case for a while and its disgusting in my opinion - you pay for the visa application. On the one occasion that I used this service (e-mail), I did not get to communicate with either the ECO that made the decision or his manager. Each e-mail took between 5 and 10 days to obtain a reply - a private company in any other field would never get away with this and keep their customers.

Right now I am thinking about applying for a UK tourist visa for my partner ( first one 4  years ago refused ) but not only do I have to prove that she will return to Thailand , there is this Corona virus outbreak in Thailand / Asia which may also have an influence on the granting of a visa . Or am I being pedantic ? 

[brewsterbudgen]

21 minutes ago, superal said:

When applying / assisting / sponsoring for a tourist visa for a partner and as an indigenous UK resident , seems to count for nothing . The assumption appears to be that the applicant is not trustworthy and must prove otherwise . Tis easy to gather info on the sponsors credibility as being a UK nationalist and acting as a guarantor should suffice . Not so easy for the actual applicant who may be without reasonable finances . 

 

 

Are you suggesting that all "indigenous" UK residents are trustworthy?!  Relying on the credibility of the sponsor would be impossible to check.  Like all visas, it's the applicant who needs to be assessed.

[superal]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Are you suggesting that all "indigenous" UK residents are trustworthy?!  Relying on the credibility of the sponsor would be impossible to check.  Like all visas, it's the applicant who needs to be assessed.

Not at all but for those that are of good standing should be taken into consideration and benefit the application . A CRB / DBS check against criminality plus proof of finances from the UK sponsor should be admissible to the application . So easy to check up on your own countrymen as opposed to a Thai persons status in a third world country . Proof of a relationship between app / sponsor should suffice along with the UK indigenous sponsors credibility . Monetary penalty if non conformance with the visa ts & cs   

[GarryP]

On 2/4/2020 at 6:38 PM, KhaoYai said:

I believe by this stage you will have received plenty of information to enable you to assist the Thai citizen to apppy a Visit Visa for the UK but, having made/helped in several successful applications I will give you a few pointers:

 

Main requirements:

 

Firstly a sponsor can either provide financial assistance, accommodation or both.

 

The applicant must have sufficient funds to cover the entire trip and all associated costs. This can either be their own funding or via a sponsor.

 

The applicant needs to show proof of accommodation - either hotel bookings or if staying with the sponsor/friends, documentation showing the property owner or tenant gives their permission to stay. The property should be suitable for the amount of people staying there (this is more applicable to spouse visa applications but helps for visits too).

 

If the applicant is using a sponsor for all/part of the costs of the trip or stating that the purpose of the trip is to visit the sponsor - proof of a pre-existing relationship with the sponsor. Photos together, details of the sponsor's trips to Thailand to visit the applicant, proof of any trips the applicant and sponsor have taken together.............etc. etc. etc.

 

Either the applicant or the sponsor must show proof of the funds needed.

 

The most important requirement for a successful visa application is to convince the UK authorities that the applicant will return to their home country when the visa expires - this is commonly known as 'Reasons to Return'. It also may be the most difficult requirement to establish depending upon the applicant's personal details.  Someone with a good, well established job that pays well and a settled home life in Thailand is unlikely to have a problem obtaining a visit visa on their own merits. Conversely, someone working in a restaurant on a semi-casual basis with no payslips (under the tax threshold) and who cannot establish a settled life in Thailand is going to have to work hard to make a convincing application.

 

If the applicant is employed then the employer must be contactable (by phone) and provide a written statement confirming the employment and that they are happy for the applicant to take a holiday for the stated duration and that their job will be kept open. Be aware that ECO's can and do contact employers.

 

Showing close family ties in Thailand will help with reasons to return - anything that establishes that the applicant is settled in their home county/where they have legal residence.  Owning land and having children in Thailand will not help at all and any suggestions they do are just an 'old wives tale'. In fact, having children in Thailand can complicate things further - the applicant will have to establish how those children will be cared for whilst they visit the UK. Land can be sold and is no guarantee that an applicant is settled.

 

You would not believe the amount of Thai citizens that have obtained/try to obtain a visa to visit the UK when their intentions were to do something other than a real visit.  Many of these are females between 18 and 35 who come to the UK to work in the 'adult industry' - they get a visit visa and then disappear. With that in mind you can perhaps understand that for some - obtaining a visa can be difficult. Remember, you may know the applicant is genuine - the UK authorities don't. Try to put yourself in the position of a UK ECO considering the application and you shouldn't go too far wrong.

 

I would be very careful using an agent - especially one in Thailand.  They may be able to help but I've seen quite a few applications wrecked by false information supplied by an agent and poor advice. Remember, its the applicant that signs the application and they are therefore stating that all aspects are correct and true. Should they be found to have made a false statement they can be banned for a long period or banned forever - depending on the gravity of any false information. It is not difficult to make an application and there is nothing in it that requires a degree in visa applications - do it yourself.

 

Thaivisa is a very good site for finding information/getting advice on Thai visas but there is another forum that is more applicable to UK visas and its members will give you all the advice you need. I don't think I'm allowed to link to that website here but PM me and I'll send you a link.

 

Finally, I have seen perfectly good applications refused where the officer is just not happy about something - even though you may think you have covered those points well. Normally they use 'Insufficient Reasons to Return' to deny the application - they don't have to prove that as its a matter of opinion. Just deal with the reasons for refusal and re-apply. Do not tell lies on the application - if they are discovered they will come back to haunt you.

According to the application page on the website, you are told not to submit copies of air tickets or hotel bookings and in fact you are told not to even make reservations until you get your visa.  Having said that, for the previous two applications for my now wife, I did submit evidence of the same. This time I have already made the bookings, but do not intend to submit copies of such reservations. Would you suggest I still include them. 

 

My wife is a housewife and I am acting as the sponsor for our trip. In my case, I am in full time employment in Thailand and we are joint owners of our house. We are always honest in the application process and even admit to her having a US visa application rejected. This has not been a problem in the past.  

[GarryP]

On 2/6/2020 at 5:03 PM, KhaoYai said:

Right well please take heed of my last post.  A few years ago a friend had a real battle getting a tourist visa for his wife to visit the UK - the suspicion being that he was trying to circumvent to spouse visa requirements. Over the years there have been reports of others encountering the same problem.  Some sail through without any proof that they are settled in Thailand - I guess it depends on the officer, on that day but I wouldn't take the risk - there is no right of appeal.

 

You don't need pages and pages - just show that you are settled in Thailand. A rental contract or Tabien Baan - anything that establishes your long term residence, together with a short statement from yourself/wife should be sufficient.

In my past three submissions I have included a letter from my employer confirming my length of employment (27 years) and latest salary (enuff), plus a copy of my latest payslip. 

[KhaoYai]

31 minutes ago, GarryP said:

According to the application page on the website, you are told not to submit copies of air tickets or hotel bookings and in fact you are told not to even make reservations until you get your visa. 

Its been a while since I was involved in a visa application so no doubt some things will have changed. However, on the subject of the evidence mentioned, I think you misunderstand. The air tickets I am talking about would not be for the proposed trip - I mean any travel the sponsor and the applicant may have made together as proof of their relationship.

 

For example, when I last made an application on behalf of a girlfriend, I re-printed an Air Asia travel itinerary saved on my laptop from a trip we had made to Phuket a couple or years earlier. I also included copies of my entry and exit stamps for Thailand to prove I'd been in the country at the same time.

[KhaoYai]

On the subject of establishing a relationship between sponsor and applicant, someone told me a while ago that the UK authorities are now saying they don't want photos of you together.  Anyone know if that's correct?

 

It would seem mighty strange if it is. Many years ago my gf's first VV application was rejected for the specific reason that I hadn't sent enough photos. The ECO's reasoning stated something like "I find it difficult to believe that you have been together for 4 years and can only supply 4 photos". I had never said that I only had 4 photos! The photos I had sent quite clearly showed a long relationship as I'd specifically chosen photos that showed timed events - for example, one of them showed us at the 60th anniversay celebrations of the (old) King's coronation.

 

I had however, supplied plenty of other evidence which the ECO had clearly ignored.  A phone call to the ECM got the ECO's decision overturned - shame you can't do that now. On subsequent applications I inundated them with photos - sometimes over 100 ????

[Jumbo1968]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

On the subject of establishing a relationship between sponsor and applicant, someone told me a while ago that the UK authorities are now saying they don't want photos of you together.  Anyone know if that's correct?

 

It would seem mighty strange if it is. Many years ago my gf's first VV application was rejected for the specific reason that I hadn't sent enough photos. The ECO's reasoning stated something like "I find it difficult to believe that you have been together for 4 years and can only supply 4 photos". I had never said that I only had 4 photos! The photos I had sent quite clearly showed a long relationship as I'd specifically chosen photos that showed timed events - for example, one of them showed us at the 60th anniversay celebrations of the (old) King's coronation.

 

I had however, supplied plenty of other evidence which the ECO had clearly ignored.  A phone call to the ECM got the ECO's decision overturned - shame you can't do that now. On subsequent applications I inundated them with photos - sometimes over 100 ????

Photos no longer required, what proof is there that you are in a relationship, they could be ‘stage managed’. It’s better to show travel dates, accommodation in Thailand and the actual time you spend in Thailand.

[KhaoYai]

2 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Photos no longer required, what proof is there that you are in a relationship, they could be ‘stage managed’. It’s better to show travel dates, accommodation in Thailand and the actual time you spend in Thailand.

Agreed but seems strange given their reason for refusal before (see above).

[theoldgit]

15 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

On the subject of establishing a relationship between sponsor and applicant, someone told me a while ago that the UK authorities are now saying they don't want photos of you together.  Anyone know if that's correct?

It’s noted in the UKVI documents guidelines, along with flight tickets, hotel bookings, travel insurance, proof of ownership of cars, motorcycles and the like.