Britain tells the EU: we shall not sell out our fishermen

[samran]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Liz Truss didn't say or imply that she wants to teach the world how to run the WTO here is what she said and you should be aware that David Walker from New Zealand is currently working on WTO reforms I know reform is a dirty word in the EU

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-is-back-liz-truss-calls-for-new-rules-at-wto-to-tackle-unfair-trade-practices

 

Bwhahahahaha! 
 

Liz must be smoking crack. She must be so surprised to find out that most of the rest of the world she now wants to brave it with practice all sorts of unfair trading practices!
 

Reform the WTO easy? Hahahahaha. WTO rules are the ultimate rules of last resort where you can’t agree anything better bilaterally. 
 

David Walker might be a smart bloke, but unless he can get the 168 other members over the line...then good luck. 
 

It’s going to be specially hard to enforce those rules if they happen to change as well. It’s common knowledge that The Donald has refused to approve new appellate judges to the WTO so the disputes mechanism is now basically non existent given they can’t form a legal quorum to actually hear any trade disputes. So that mechanism is shot. 

 

Because what might be fair The Donald insists is unfair of the US still loses out. 
 

Well at least the brexiters have their new bogeyman. Instead of banging on about how the EU are a bunch of recalcitrants, you’ve got another Jonny Foreigner organisation you can beat up on now!

Edited March 4, 2020 by samran

[cleopatra2]

Evidently the plan is that UK will bar any foreign fishing vessels within 12 mile zone. This being reserved for UK fishermen.

Any fish caught within British waters by foreign vessels to be landed at British ports.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

the quote is from the same link that you kindly provided just further down from the inital section that you quoted

I know where it is from and the discussion covers various factors including fish migration.

The only sentence that actually means anything is this one, but then obligations mean very little to some.

"How the UK decides to pursue its general obligations to co-operate with the EU and other neighbouring states will be a matter for negotiations before and after Brexit."

 

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

What do you think they're doing at this moment. They're negotiating and have til the end of this year to come to an agreement. No agreement then the EU will not be allowed access to UK waters. Simps innit?

We are all quite aware of what has been said to be simple, never works out that way.

What ever happened to the easiest trade deal in history or the 40+ trade deals that would be immediately rolled over.

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I know where it is from and the discussion covers various factors including fish migration.

The only sentence that actually means anything is this one, but then obligations mean very little to some.

"How the UK decides to pursue its general obligations to co-operate with the EU and other neighbouring states will be a matter for negotiations before and after Brexit."

 

Actually I think this one

45.In declaring an Exclusive Economic Zone independent from EU waters, the UK would be able to control the access that foreign vessels have to fishing in UK waters. It will be for the Government of the day to decide whether the principle of equal access should be preserved, and the extent to which foreign vessels should be granted access to fishing in the UK EEZ.

I sure there will be some agreement at the end of the day but it wouldn't be the same access that the EU has and the French want

[david555]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/04/uk-faces-catastrophe-if-tories-continue-with-no-checks-in-irish-sea-claim-northern-ireland-johnson

 

UK faces 'catastrophe' if Tories continue with 'no checks in Irish Sea' claim

Special trade arrangements will apply from 1 January whether Johnson strikes deal or not

Lisa O'Carroll Brexit correspondent

@lisaocarroll

Wed 4 Mar 2020 20.08 GMT

 

The UK will have a “catastrophe” on its hands unless Boris Johnson and cabinet ministers stop repeatedly claiming that there will be no checks in the Irish Sea as part of the special Brexit arrangements, manufacturing leaders and local politicians have warned.

 

“If they don’t there is going to a horrible crash at the end of this year, and if not, then in four years,” said Stephen Kelly, the chief executive of the business group Manufacturing Northern Ireland.

 

Speaking at a debate on Northern Ireland protocol at the Institute for Government thinktank in London on Wednesday, he added: “We are potentially facing some pretty catastrophic outcomes if we don’t get this right.”

 

more...

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by david555

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Actually I think this one

45.In declaring an Exclusive Economic Zone independent from EU waters, the UK would be able to control the access that foreign vessels have to fishing in UK waters. It will be for the Government of the day to decide whether the principle of equal access should be preserved, and the extent to which foreign vessels should be granted access to fishing in the UK EEZ.

I sure there will be some agreement at the end of the day but it wouldn't be the same access that the EU has and the French want

It does not matter what you, I or even parliament think, at the end of the day it will be this document that takes precedence, particularly Articles 63/64.

https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf

 

Conservation will take priority and migration will be taken into account in the absence of any agreement. It will be co-operation or another Cod War.

[wotsdermatter]

On 3/2/2020 at 6:43 AM, twocatsmac said:

Most kids in the UK think fish comes out of tins, premixed with mayo.

Rather like many kids also believe white milk comes from white cows and brown/chocolate milk comes from brown cows or just magically appears in containers and comes from a store.

'nuf sed.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, TheDark said:

Perhaps denying access to the English waters, could actually be beneficial for the EU.

 

Let the English do all the hard work, catch the fist out in the open seas. Add sufficient tariffs, to make sure that the fish price stays low for the sellers (EU countries getting the tax revenue). Also making sure that only unprocessed fish is allowed to enter the EU. Thus cutting of the value added fish processing industry altogether.

 

Then process the fish inside Europe, adding value to the product and sell it either to the EU markets.

 

This model would make the English fishermen as producers of bulk items. 

Unfortunately the introduction of tariffs will kill off the onshore side of the Scottish fishing industry, which happens to be the largest part of the industry.

Wiping out rural communities will be perceived as collateral damage by many, including, I hate to say, much of the Scottish offshore fishermen.

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It does not matter what you, I or even parliament think, at the end of the day it will be this document that takes precedence, particularly Articles 63/64.

https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf

 

Conservation will take priority and migration will be taken into account in the absence of any agreement. It will be co-operation or another Cod War.

Well Macron  is quoted as saying "

Speaking at a fishing and farmers market in Paris today, Macron said: 'It's going to be tense because they are very tough...

 

'Boris Johnson has a card in his hand and it is fishing and with that he will try to gain access to the market."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8033071/Emmanuel-Macron-casts-doubt-Boris-Johnsons-hopes-striking-Brexit-trade-deal-December.html

[vinny41]

Brussels warned Royal Navy warships will be used to protect UK waters from EU fishing ships

ROYAL Navy warships will be sent to protect British vessels from European fishermen after Brexit, EU officials have today been warned.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/brussels-warned-royal-navy-warships-will-be-used-protect-uk-waters-eu-fishing-ships-2071866

[melvinmelvin]

23 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It does not matter what you, I or even parliament think, at the end of the day it will be this document that takes precedence, particularly Articles 63/64.

https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf

 

Conservation will take priority and migration will be taken into account in the absence of any agreement. It will be co-operation or another Cod War.

have to disagree a bit here,

in the UK the UK law prevails

UNCLOS is a wish

[Logosone]

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

I don't think so, given that the EU as a whole is in also economic decline with its own problems, and also that the fish concerned are so important to the EU fishermen and consumers alike.

Thanks for the laughs, but I think you'll find that the UK has more serious economic problems to worry about than haddock. 

 

No major EU country is in the serious dire straits that the UK is in now economically, with an economy made up 80% of services which in the past were mostly sold based on EU access and passporting. The fact that the City abhors Brexit and is voting with its feet to move GBP 1.7 trillion of assets and thousands of jobs outside of London, with 40 equivalency decisions about to be made in Europe, a major trade negotiation with the EU about to start and the trade deficit being what it is, the UK is in a very precarious position. How anyone can say 'the UK will be fine' at this point is frankly preposterous.

 

Whatever problems you think the EU has you can gauge from what the banks of the world are buying what they think of the UK and the EU. Twenty per cent of the world's reserve currency is held in Euro, only 4 pr cent in Pound Sterling.

 

I can see why Boris and the Brexiteers would like to deflect attention to fish, I really do. But the reality is that only France, Denmark and Netherlands are seriously fishing in Britain, and only for 35% of the fish in British waters. 

 

As the very capable Scottish German poltician David Macallister put it: "Two-thirds of fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU. If the UK grants us access to territorial waters, to fish, then on the other hand the UK will have access to export fisheries to the single market.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/06/fishing-eu-countries-seek-tough-stance-on-access-to-uk-waters

 

So again, it is the UK that is in a much weaker position, since two thirds of all fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU the UK will be sure to compromise on the fish issue. Unless you want to sell your fish in New Zealand? Probably a plan seriously considered by Brexiteers.

 

But overall the fish issue is of miniscule importance compared to the City's problems in accessing the EU market for services.

 

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

 

Here  are some examples when you claim Liz Truss UK MP and Secretary of State for International Trade

Its very unlikely that a Secretary of State for International Trade would refer to the French as frogs and letting other fish in uk Waters doesn't exist in the post and she hasn't said even though you claim she has , and we all know you can't provide any supporting links to support your claim as none exist therefore your posts are both False and Fake

yes I do agree that it woud be very unlikely that the lass referred to the French as frogs

 

I have never/nowhere

claimed that the gal has said that the French should be let to fish in UK waters, never/nowhere

 

what I say and strongly mean (and have said several times) is that letting some French and some Spanish anglers dip their tackle

in UK waters is fully within her pitch on this matter

 

is this fake? maybe - I don't know or care - beyond me

is this false? maybe - I don't know or care - beyond me

[cleopatra2]

14 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

have to disagree a bit here,

in the UK the UK law prevails

UNCLOS is a wish

The UK law on this is via the Territorial sea Act which puts the limit to 12 miles.

The act allows this to be extended by international agreements etc.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Evidently the plan is that UK will bar any foreign fishing vessels within 12 mile zone. This being reserved for UK fishermen.

Any fish caught within British waters by foreign vessels to be landed at British ports.

that last sentence of yours

is not necessarily sound - would you always have the required number of knives available?

 

there ought to be some flexibility re where to land anchovies

 

[melvinmelvin]

13 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The UK law on this is via the Territorial sea Act which puts the limit to 12 miles.

The act allows this to be extended by international agreements etc.

 

and so?

 

UK statutes still apply

 

[cleopatra2]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

and so?

 

UK statutes still apply

 

If the UK wishes to maintain the entitlement to the EEZ it will need to co operate with the UN fish management requirements.

 

[vinny41]

23 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Thanks for the laughs, but I think you'll find that the UK has more serious economic problems to worry about than haddock. 

 

No major EU country is in the serious dire straits that the UK is in now economically, with an economy made up 80% of services which in the past were mostly sold based on EU access and passporting. The fact that the City abhors Brexit and is voting with its feet to move GBP 1.7 trillion of assets and thousands of jobs outside of London, with 40 equivalency decisions about to be made in Europe, a major trade negotiation with the EU about to start and the trade deficit being what it is, the UK is in a very precarious position. How anyone can say 'the UK will be fine' at this point is frankly preposterous.

 

Whatever problems you think the EU has you can gauge from what the banks of the world are buying what they think of the UK and the EU. Twenty per cent of the world's reserve currency is held in Euro, only 4 pr cent in Pound Sterling.

 

I can see why Boris and the Brexiteers would like to deflect attention to fish, I really do. But the reality is that only France, Denmark and Netherlands are seriously fishing in Britain, and only for 35% of the fish in British waters. 

 

As the very capable Scottish German poltician David Macallister put it: "Two-thirds of fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU. If the UK grants us access to territorial waters, to fish, then on the other hand the UK will have access to export fisheries to the single market.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/06/fishing-eu-countries-seek-tough-stance-on-access-to-uk-waters

 

So again, it is the UK that is in a much weaker position, since two thirds of all fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU the UK will be sure to compromise on the fish issue. Unless you want to sell your fish in New Zealand? Probably a plan seriously considered by Brexiteers.

 

But overall the fish issue is of miniscule importance compared to the City's problems in accessing the EU market for services.

 

 

 

 

30 September 2019, the pound sterling represented the fourth largest proportion (by USD equivalent value) of foreign currency reserves

[melvinmelvin]

12 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

If the UK wishes to maintain the entitlement to the EEZ it will need to co operate with the UN fish management requirements.

 

nope

that ain't the way it works

 

UK statues apply no end

 

if the rest of the world is not happy with UK actions in line with UK law they can complain to the guys in Netherlands

 

[billd766]

16 hours ago, bannork said:

Then who will the UK fishermen sell all their excess fish to? If there's no agreement those fish will be slapped with tariffs if for sale in the EU.

If they don't buy the fish from the UK, where else can they buy it?

[transam]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

If they don't buy the fish from the UK, where else can they buy it?

Off the back of a trawler.....????

 

Sorry, will get my coat..............????

[cleopatra2]

24 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

nope

that ain't the way it works

 

UK statues apply no end

 

if the rest of the world is not happy with UK actions in line with UK law they can complain to the guys in Netherlands

 

This is nonsense.

The UK only has sovereignty up to 12 NM.

Within the EEZ it has sovereignty rights granted by the UN.

Within these rights there is duties and obligations.

One of the obligations is to determine a quota to manage fish stock. If the UK does not co operate with adjacent maritime states how can it set a quota for trans boundary fish.

 

 

[david555]

wrong placed , removed it 

Edited March 5, 2020 by david555

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Thanks for the laughs, but I think you'll find that the UK has more serious economic problems to worry about than haddock. 

 

No major EU country is in the serious dire straits that the UK is in now economically, with an economy made up 80% of services which in the past were mostly sold based on EU access and passporting. The fact that the City abhors Brexit and is voting with its feet to move GBP 1.7 trillion of assets and thousands of jobs outside of London, with 40 equivalency decisions about to be made in Europe, a major trade negotiation with the EU about to start and the trade deficit being what it is, the UK is in a very precarious position. How anyone can say 'the UK will be fine' at this point is frankly preposterous.

 

Whatever problems you think the EU has you can gauge from what the banks of the world are buying what they think of the UK and the EU. Twenty per cent of the world's reserve currency is held in Euro, only 4 pr cent in Pound Sterling.

 

I can see why Boris and the Brexiteers would like to deflect attention to fish, I really do. But the reality is that only France, Denmark and Netherlands are seriously fishing in Britain, and only for 35% of the fish in British waters. 

 

As the very capable Scottish German poltician David Macallister put it: "Two-thirds of fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU. If the UK grants us access to territorial waters, to fish, then on the other hand the UK will have access to export fisheries to the single market.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/06/fishing-eu-countries-seek-tough-stance-on-access-to-uk-waters

 

So again, it is the UK that is in a much weaker position, since two thirds of all fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU the UK will be sure to compromise on the fish issue. Unless you want to sell your fish in New Zealand? Probably a plan seriously considered by Brexiteers.

 

But overall the fish issue is of miniscule importance compared to the City's problems in accessing the EU market for services.

 

 

 

 

Well I disagree, of course and your references to to reserve currencies etc are meaningless within this topic. The fishing issue has come to the top of the list before talkies have even begun. It may not be top of the tree economically but politically it has the potential to be a huge problem for some of the governments within the EU, especially France and Spain. Macron does not need to see the French fishermen put on their yellow vests on as well as their wellies.

 

 

[david555]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Brussels warned Royal Navy warships will be used to protect UK waters from EU fishing ships

ROYAL Navy warships will be sent to protect British vessels from European fishermen after Brexit, EU officials have today been warned.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/brussels-warned-royal-navy-warships-will-be-used-protect-uk-waters-eu-fishing-ships-2071866

I really believe you would love it.....,  to fly all round ig Europe airspace to reach destinations behind it.....????

Big fisheries card  ,yes….. and Euro regulating & passporting means nothing on E.U. side ?????????????????

[transam]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

I really believe you would love it.....,  to fly all round ig Europe airspace to reach destinations behind it.....????

Big fisheries card  ,yes….. and Euro regulating & passporting means nothing on E.U. side ?????????????????

I see you're still trawling................????

[david555]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I see you're still trawling................????

same as you ????

Edited March 5, 2020 by david555

[transam]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

same as you ????

No, I don't eat UK fish ..................????

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, david555 said:

I really believe you would love it.....,  to fly all round ig Europe airspace to reach destinations behind it.....????

Big fisheries card  ,yes….. and Euro regulating & passporting means nothing on E.U. side ?????????????????

It does appear that the EU wants to have your cake and eat it too  regarding fishing, I understand if you leave the EU club, you can't have the same access as a club member, but that applies both ways. The EU have stated the UK must “uphold” existing reciprocal access to fishing grounds or what is known as "Status quo" but they have to understand you can't have you cake and eat it also applies to them, Once we have left the club the rules of access change