Japanese brand air conditioners

[NAoZ]

Anyone have experience with Japanese air conditioner brands other than the recommended Mitsubishi and Daikin? I see Toshiba, Hitachi, Panasonic, SHARP (well technically not JP anymore) which probably are all good products but Im not sure when considering install, maintenance, number of technicians, etc. too.

[Kwasaki]

Over 20 years found Sansong the best,  I guess there all much the same these days, just get double what they say for your room size.  

[Logosone]

I have one of those ceiling mounted Mitsubishi and several normal Mitsubish wall units. They do the job.

 

Technicians are terrible if the maintenance guys are anything to go by.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Logosone

[sometimewoodworker]

30 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Over 20 years found Sansong the best,  I guess there all much the same these days, just get double what they say for your room size.  

That is terrible sizing advice for Non Inverter units and very poor advise for inverter units.

 

the general Thai sizing advice is between 700BTU ~ 900BTU per square metre my experience is that even in a poorly insulated room around 500 is perfectly adequate. Your suggestion is for 1800BTU sqm so for a small 4M X 4M room you are saying that a 22,400 BTU to 28,800 BTU unit is the correct size!!! I have the smallest 9,000BTU non inverter and it’s perfectly OK for my 16sqm room.

 

I hope that spelling of Samsung was not the only mistake in that post.

Edited March 8, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[NAoZ]

Off topic but the room is in Bangkok on the 3rd floor under the roof facing south. 4m x 4m. Walls and window probably not insulated. Is 12000 BTU enough or should I get a bit larger?

[sometimewoodworker]

Just now, kzyswd said:

Off topic but the room is in Bangkok on the 3rd floor under the roof facing south. 4m x 4m. Walls and window probably not insulated. Is 12000 BTU enough or should I get a bit larger?

As I mentioned for that size of room a 9,000 BTU unit is correct for me, it is a non inverter.

 

If you are going to buy an inverter then getting a unit that is oversized is not the huge mistake that it is for a non inverter.

 

So if I were being given an inverter then I would accept a 12,000 BTU unit but nothing bigger. But if it were a non inverter unit I would refuse it.
 

The reason for not oversizing non inverter AC units is that if it’s too big you will not be able to reduce the humidity as it will not run long enough. 

[lopburi3]

It also makes a big difference in how cold you want it - if you like the Thai meat locker experience you will need a more powerful unit - but those of us who have lived here for extended time often do not want anything like that in sleeping area (but maybe close in a physical work place).  I am very happy with 28-29c room temp using computer or sleeping so for me a 9k unit is fully adequate for 26sm room.

[NAoZ]

4 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

It also makes a big difference in how cold you want it - if you like the Thai meat locker experience you will need a more powerful unit - but those of us who have lived here for extended time often do not want anything like that in sleeping area (but maybe close in a physical work place).  I am very happy with 28-29c room temp using computer or sleeping so for me a 9k unit is fully adequate for 26sm room.

I forgot about the temps. I like around 25c.

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, kzyswd said:

I forgot about the temps. I like around 25c.

In that case will probably want to use the makers recommend unit for size room you have.  Have had good luck with Panasonic (non inverter) and Mitsubishi/Diakin (inverter) brands.  Had less luck with a Samsung (but was original model imported to Thailand). 

[liddelljohn]

I have  Saisho Denki unit 23 years old still works like new and silent also a Mitsubishi also 20 years old and silent ,, have one LG korean unit 4 years old  quiet but  needs more cleaning ,, and a Daikin at work very  good machine ,

 

 

Later in the year i need another 18-22 BTU unit for front room of new house   will be latest inverter type ,, Hitachi, Samsung , or Daikin ,,about 25k baht

All were made in Thailand anyway regardless of owners

 

In Uk I have 2 worcester heat exchanger units  that were actilly made by Daikin in Malaysia  very good  heat in winter   aircon in summer very quiet very reliable

Edited March 8, 2020 by liddelljohn

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, kzyswd said:

I forgot about the temps. I like around 25c.

That is around the daytime temp my 9,000 unit is set for, it can easily do lower but i don't like to freeze

 

Night time we were setting around 22~23 and again it was no problem.

[MJCM]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

the general Thai sizing advice is between 700BTU ~ 900BTU per square metre my experience is that even in a poorly insulated room around 500 is perfectly adequate.

So a 12k Inverter Daikin would be good enough for our new build 20Sqm (good insulation) bedroom?

 

That would save us a bundle as I was thinking (not bought yet) the 18k BTU (Daikin FTKM18SV2S)

 

Edit: We like to temp to be around 26c.

Edited March 8, 2020 by MJCM

[NAoZ]

8 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is around the daytime temp my 9,000 unit is set for, it can easily do lower but i don't like to freeze

 

Night time we were setting around 22~23 and again it was no problem.

Do you get direct sun light and what floor is it?

[sometimewoodworker]

12 minutes ago, kzyswd said:

Do you get direct sun light and what floor is it?

yes we did, its on the ground floor with uninsulated cinderblock walls and an uninsulated suspended ceiling, so originally no insulation at all

[sometimewoodworker]

18 minutes ago, MJCM said:

So a 12k Inverter Daikin would be good enough for our new build 20Sqm (good insulation) bedroom?

 

That would save us a bundle as I was thinking (not bought yet) the 18k BTU (Daikin FTKM18SV2S)

 

Edit: We like to temp to be around 26c.

That would be the size I would buy, though as they are inverters either one will work

[EricTh]

I have both Daikin and Panasonic. Panasonic is cheaper than Daikin but I heard that Daikin has better quality.

 

No problem so far.

[tutsiwarrior]

I have a Hitachi 18kBTU conventional unit with 7+ years of service in the bedroom with no probs but I keep it clean (indoor fan and coils disassembled) with a full clean by a cleaning professional twice per year...he uses a power pump on the outdoor coils...

 

cold, dark and quiet like a tomb...

 

 

Quote

 

 

[liddelljohn]

Minimum domestic units should be 12.000 BTU  for any normal room   smaller ones  7-9k BTU will work very hard and die  so 12k BTU will work fine in rooms up to 20 sqm ,, anything bigger up to 35sqm  go 18k BTU   and for larger  go 22-24BTU ,, after that its industrial size units

[lopburi3]

3 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

Minimum domestic units should be 12.000 BTU  for any normal room   smaller ones  7-9k BTU will work very hard and die  so 12k BTU will work fine in rooms up to 20 sqm ,, anything bigger up to 35sqm  go 18k BTU   and for larger  go 22-24BTU ,, after that its industrial size units

Nonsense.  The room, insulation, user requirements all account for what size is required and have not had either of my 9k units die yet (and been over a decade).  And the one cooling 26sm only unable to fully cool about 5 days in those 10 years (during heat of afternoon).  It is the start/stop that is a major AC killer (which is one reason to go inverted).  Having excess capacity with a normal AC will not dry the air (which in Thailand is needed). 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, liddelljohn said:

Minimum domestic units should be 12.000 BTU  for any normal room   smaller ones  7-9k BTU will work very hard and die  so 12k BTU will work fine in rooms up to 20 sqm ,, anything bigger up to 35sqm  go 18k BTU   and for larger  go 22-24BTU ,, after that its industrial size units

Poor and incorrect advice.

 

Undersized AC units do not die quickly, they just either cool the area too slowly or do not cool it enough.

you do not say if you are giving advice on regular or inverter units.

you do not say if your advice is the same with or without insulation 

What is a normal room size? You say up to 20 sqm.

 

If I use a 12,000 BTU non inverter unit in my 16 sqm bedroom it will cool down too quickly and will run for short periods when in use. The 2 problems this will produce are very poor humidity reduction (would need the AC to be cooling to reduce humidity) and multiple short working cycles. 
 

Not to mention that your suggestion gives a range of 850 BTU sqm to 550 BTU sqm

Edited March 9, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

8 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

It is the start/stop that is a major AC killer (which is one reason to go inverted).  Having excess capacity with a normal AC will not dry the air (which in Thailand is needed). 

Absolutely correct.

 

So the BS advice that you are replying to will kill off non inverter AC units as they will both start stop much more frequently and not dry the air because they don’t run for long enough.

Edited March 9, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[bankruatsteve]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

will kill off non inverter AC units

The "standard" unit is now the "inverter" type.  I don't even see the non-inverter type offered by the name brands anymore (at the Home places anyway).

[NAoZ]

Hottest room in the house, 16sqmt, aiming at 24-25c, would you people think 12000BTU is enough or one larger size is safer?

[lopburi3]

!2k should have no issue unless the ceiling is glass under the sun (or perhaps the old cement board directly under dark roof).  If hotest room in house because of no circulation for sure 12k should be more than enough.  Be sure it is inverter as expect most of the time will not have to be running at anything near 12k for such a small room.

[NAoZ]

Thanks!