Herd Immunity vs Lockdown

[LomSak27]

On 4/4/2020 at 12:37 PM, frantick said:

Personally, I'm for Herd Immunity and over 60; smoker and pleasingly plump. And I love life; REAL life.

Looks like you're in a high death bracket. Hopefully just plump, not obese, but that is a strange determining factor, they do not know why. Good luck on surviving it, if you are infected. You will need it.

 

Lots of people talking about "herd immunity" these days. The very people who would have no clue about herds or immunity, six months ago. Is that big in YouTube videos, Alex Jones or QAnon conspiracy sites now?!  Just Curious.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by LomSak27

[gamb00ler]

*deleted - logic error*

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by gamb00ler

[ExpatOilWorker]

So much for the hot weather theori.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Ecuador sees massive surge in deaths in April
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52324218

[KhaoNiaw]

6 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

So much for the hot weather theori.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Ecuador sees massive surge in deaths in April
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52324218

It's not exactly hot in Ecuador. 

[Monomial]

11 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

Enough of the "herd immunity" talk. COVID-19 is not just a "bad flu"--at least not in the United States

 

Nobody is saying that this is only a bad flu, at least not in this thread. What is being said is that the consequences of lockdown are worse than the actual disease.

 

You can't evade responsibility for the millions you are hurting and even those you are killing through this lockdown just by drawing a hockey stick graph.

 

This question is not that simple. There are consequences to your choices.

[yuyiinthesky]

11 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

That is not what the graph shows at all, heart disease and cancer remain unchanged, while covid19 unrelated to heart and cancer has spiked exponentially. 

Please look more careful, the numbers for heart disease and cancer in that graph are "2017 weekly average", and not the current numbers. Thus your point is without base, incorrect.

[Farma]

Quote

The coronavirus 'immunity passports' plan is doomed to fail after only 10 per cent of Italians have developed COVID-19 antibodies, a top health official has said.

The head of the civil protection agency Silvio Brusaferro said that the 'target is far off' and the concept is unfeasible.

Does this mean herd immunity won't work if people aren't developing antibodies?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8232105/Coronavirus-immunity-passports-plan-doomed-fail.html

[Monomial]

26 minutes ago, Farma said:

Does this mean herd immunity won't work if people aren't developing antibodies?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8232105/Coronavirus-immunity-passports-plan-doomed-fail.html

There are many questions that we currently don't have the slightest clue about. Currently, we can only check for IgM/IgG which are the hematogenous antibodies. That says nothing about developing adequate IgA/IgE, which are the airway immunoglobulins. It seems even if you have the antibodies, you can still develop the cytokine storm which results in hospitalization, as your immune system can overreact to the reinfection.

 

The whole thing is guesswork, with very few people willing to admit how little we understand because that would result in losing the confidence of the public.

 

Meanwhile, people are dying from the virus, and lives are being destroyed by the lockdown. This is a grand gamble by the WHO, CDC and others that they can figure out what is happening before public backlash and riots threaten to undermine their efforts. 

 

Personally I think they'd get better cooperation through unmitigated full disclosure, but right now, the industry seems to be dominated by secrecy and the belief that the public should just listen and trust.

[Sharp]

7 minutes ago, Monomial said:

There are many questions that we currently don't have the slightest clue about. Currently, we can only check for IgM/IgG which are the hematogenous antibodies. That says nothing about developing adequate IgA/IgE, which are the airway immunoglobulins. It seems even if you have the antibodies, you can still develop the cytokine storm which results in hospitalization, as your immune system can overreact to the reinfection.

 

The whole thing is guesswork, with very few people willing to admit how little we understand because that would result in losing the confidence of the public.

 

Meanwhile, people are dying from the virus, and lives are being destroyed by the lockdown. This is a grand gamble by the WHO, CDC and others that they can figure out what is happening before public backlash and riots threaten to undermine their efforts. 

 

Personally I think they'd get better cooperation through unmitigated full disclosure, but right now, the industry seems to be dominated by secrecy and the belief that the public should just listen and trust.

Some clarity at last..

[ExpatOilWorker]

Chile is trying something similar to the passport

https://reut.rs/3a3g9wQ

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Australia also has telehealth to allow seniors to have a consultation without attending a GP surgery, prescriptions sent to pharmacy and delivered in many instances 

Those of us that only use cash will be screwed in that scenario. I can't get anything from the local pharmacy because they don't take cash any more. I just hope they don't keep that policy after.

 

I've heard nothing about an increase in hacking during the lockdown, but we don't hear much about anything any more anyway. I very much doubt the hackers will be taking a holiday at a time when official policy is to go cashless.

Edited April 18, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those of us that only use cash will be screwed in that scenario. I can't get anything from the local pharmacy because they don't take cash any more. I just hope they don't keep that policy after.

I don't know where you are but can't you just use your bank card as contactless?

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Monomial said:

This is a grand gamble by the WHO, CDC and others that they can figure out what is happening before public backlash and riots threaten to undermine their efforts. 

Something that no doubt occupies the mind of many governments. They depend on a compliant populace to impose a loss of freedoms without prior agreement from the populace. I guess they are finding out how far they can go right now. Michigan should be sending a chill down their spines.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I don't know where you are but can't you just use your bank card as contactless?

Did you miss the part where I talked about hacker criminals?

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Did you miss the part where I talked about hacker criminals?

not worth worrying about, move on and use cards. The main thing to be wary of is phishing emails, and people online or by phone asking you to provide bank details. I think contactless max is currently £50, was £30, hardly a big risk

[thaibeachlovers]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

not worth worrying about, move on and use cards. The main thing to be wary of is phishing emails, and people online or by phone asking you to provide bank details. I think contactless max is currently £50, was £30, hardly a big risk

Hardly a risk, in your opinion. 50 quid would be a catastrophe for me. Are you prepared to reimburse me if I take your advice and get hacked? ...............................Didn't think so.

[scubascuba3]

26 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hardly a risk, in your opinion. 50 quid would be a catastrophe for me. Are you prepared to reimburse me if I take your advice and get hacked? ...............................Didn't think so.

I think the bank will, if not i will, give it a try for a year

[LomSak27]

The Herd, The Thundering Herd (please excuse, Marshall), Its the flavor of the month BUT what if .... 

 

“There’s been an expectation, maybe, that herd immunity may have been achieved and that the majority of people in society may already have developed antibodies. I think the general evidence is pointing against that... so it may not solve the problem the governments are trying to solve.”

"Not every virus functions the same way, though, and extensive research into whether the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19 generates enough antibodies to impart a durable immune response is unclear."

 

The Wuhan virus may decide, it doesn't want to play those games.

[Sharp]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Something that no doubt occupies the mind of many governments. They depend on a compliant populace to impose a loss of freedoms without prior agreement from the populace. I guess they are finding out how far they can go right now. Michigan should be sending a chill down their spines.

Seems as though Trump is with them also....

[frantick]

On 4/18/2020 at 9:09 AM, LomSak27 said:

Looks like you're in a high death bracket. Hopefully just plump, not obese, but that is a strange determining factor, they do not know why. Good luck on surviving it, if you are infected. You will need it.

 

Lots of people talking about "herd immunity" these days. The very people who would have no clue about herds or immunity, six months ago. Is that big in YouTube videos, Alex Jones or QAnon conspiracy sites now?!  Just Curious.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obese is like 10kg overweight, so yeah obese. 

 

I started this poll because I actually thought there were more retirees that thought the way I did; boy was I wrong. About half of us over 60, so I'm not totally alone.

 

How anyone sees having an extended police state period just to save a million worldwide deaths at the expense of 7.5billion, I don't get. But I've never been afraid of dieing even at a young age; it's part of life. Of course I've taken precautions throughout my life to avoid death, but nothing that prevented LIVING and being FREE.

 

Now let me get back to my flat-earth video while 5G cooks my chromosomes. Of course 2 things obviously fake, but if it makes the lefties feel better putting me in that box, so be it.

Edited April 19, 2020 by frantick

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, frantick said:

But I've never been afraid of dieing even at a young age;

I am not sure how long you have been 20 kg overweight, but risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes, liver impairment, non of which may kill you quickly, but lead to a slow, lingering, dependent, "life"including incontinence, inability to communicate,would concern me more, than death quickly.

 

[Skallywag]

17 minutes ago, frantick said:

having an extended police state

I actually received a thumbs up from the police today while walking along the Beach road promenade, also returned them a thumbs up (first time for everything)  I bought beer last evening at my local shop, my favorite massage therapists never stopped working (just hid out inside with the door ajar). 

I am actually enjoying the "police state".  Much more serene and clean. Yet watching and laughing at tourists was one of my favorite pastimes also.  

Tourism is necessary for Pattaya city and the Thai people here, so I hope the locals can still afford to re-open when "allowed" 

[frantick]

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I am not sure how long you have been 20 kg overweight, but risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes, liver impairment, non of which may kill you quickly, but lead to a slow, lingering, dependent, "life"including incontinence, inability to communicate,would concern me more, than death quickly.

 

Well I did correct that immediately to 10 kg, but I'm sure it's immaterial at this point. I outlived Steve Jobs, and millions of younger, 'healthy' people, so I'm good with that.

[brokenbone]

this guy has done some analysis to the cost of the lockdown

https://153news.net/watch_video.php?v=X68D2NU78K7A

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/19/2020 at 10:32 AM, scubascuba3 said:

I think the bank will, if not i will, give it a try for a year

The local bank closed for the duration, and I have no desire to attempt to use the phone as I'm on prepay and would probably run out of credit while on hold. All the places that sell vouchers are closed. Presume bank in the city is open, but I'm not allowed to travel to the city.

I'm sticking with cash as long as I can.