Covid19 - no need to panic - still

[hobz]

On 4/19/2020 at 8:59 AM, cornishcarlos said:

Good post... 

 

Lets get the world started again, be more careful for sure (protect the vulnerable, as you rightly point out) but no more lock downs.

It's too late. Too many businesses are bankrupt and too many people are unemployed already. The economic damage is already done and it will take years or decades to reverse.

Edited April 20, 2020 by hobz

[AussieBob18]

2 minutes ago, hobz said:

It's too late. Too many businesses are bankrupt and too many people are unemployed already. The economic damage is already done and it will take years or decades to reverse.

You could be right - I hope not - but no one really knows, because this has never happened before. 

 

I think a lot of how quickly the economic recovery happens, will be greatly affected by how well all the Govts introduce economic stimulus programs and payments.  Big bucks for big projects is not the way this time, lots and lots of little bucks for the smaller businesses and direct to the people in most need is what is needed.

[Logosone]

5 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

You could be right - I hope not - but no one really knows, because this has never happened before. 

 

I think a lot of how quickly the economic recovery happens, will be greatly affected by how well all the Govts introduce economic stimulus programs and payments.  Big bucks for big projects is not the way this time, lots and lots of little bucks for the smaller businesses and direct to the people in most need is what is needed.

Judging by the speed at which this is going in Germany, one of the most efficient countries in the world, the stimulus distributions are not going well.

 

A number of fraudsters had copied government websites with the aim of then making false applications, so the entire Land of Northrine Westphalia stopped all payments pending their investigation and there is now a laborious vetting of each application, but no resumption of payments.

 

It's taking too long. The promised speed of 3 days until payout is nowhere near being kept to.

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

keep up your spirits,  take care of yourself and loved ones.  Just from what you wrote in your last post I can see that you meant no disrespect,  and you have a very rare quality.  Being able to admit that maybe you did not think out exactly what you first said.    

Keep an open mind 

Thank you rumak.  I do tend to "not think out exactly" when I post. Overreacting to others viewpoints is unproductive and my opinions are oftimes unhelpful or inappropriate.  (the mods have pointed that out to me several times)  

Always working on getting better.

Yet if senility and/or dementia has begun, that may be a struggle ????

[rumak]

Just now, Skallywag said:

Thank you rumak.  I do tend to "not think out exactly" when I post. Overreacting to others viewpoints is unproductive and my opinions are oftimes unhelpful or inappropriate.  (the mods have pointed that out to me several times)  

Always working on getting better.

Yet if senility and/or dementia has begun, that may be a struggle ????

Don't think too much  55   we can't please everyone.    The main thing I have accomplished

is that i do not try to compete with people here.    I give my opinion and reasons, but don't call names or respond to those who do.   So even those who hate me now almost like me  5555

well,  that might be stretching it.     

Always room for a little humor.   Maybe senility will be a blessing   ????

[gamesgplayemail]

From the first weeks we knew that nothing would happen in Thailand. Only doctors and scientists could really think that Thailand would be hit.

 

[hobz]

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

You could be right - I hope not - but no one really knows, because this has never happened before. 

 

I think a lot of how quickly the economic recovery happens, will be greatly affected by how well all the Govts introduce economic stimulus programs and payments.  Big bucks for big projects is not the way this time, lots and lots of little bucks for the smaller businesses and direct to the people in most need is what is needed.

That's not gonna work. It's just gonna create hyperinflation. Obviously I could be wrong, and I hope i'm wrong.

[apropos]

Your analysis is based on a snapshot in time. The cruise ship was evacuated.  Do your exercise on  nursing homes and see what happens then. You might change your mind.

 

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, Skallywag said:

True, agreed.  I do not have much empathy for the "human condition" anymore.  I have been tipping more to the Thai people who I know and use their services is about all.  Have only been an expat here for 2 years, and did plan on volunteering and such, yet have not done that.  My finances are limited, so cannot be out there serving 150 - 600 free meals a day like the Nightwish group on Soi 6 and others around Pattaya.  I do post or show info on the free meal giveaways to friends and people I know locally, so they can partake of the charitable offerings if they want.  

 

No sure how one person's empathy can help the global economic impact, but am willing to listen if you have suggestions

It takes a big man to admit they're at fault so I applaud you for your post.

 

You ask for suggestions and the biggest one I can offer is to try and not relate everything back to your 'golden days' and your own personal experiences. It's a common thing I see a lot of here on TV especially amongst the Boomer generation, but all it does is highlight a social divide where (usually) white, middle-class people look back with misty eyes to a time they believe was better than now. Firstly, this time was not better for a lot of people; the lower class, many ethnics (especially in America and Australia) and the disadvantaged will all probably give you a version of the same time period you would barely recognise. Secondly, by all measures possible (infant mortality, life expectancy, social mobility etc) now is a much better time than back in the 50's or 60's to be alive, even if you came from a middle-class/privelaged upbringing. 

 

Also, you are not a part of the greatest generation who fought and died for all of our liberty (unless you are over 90) but you did enjoy the prosperity and benefits they created so when someone like myself (Gen X) sees a lack of empathy from the boomer generation for those less fortunate than themselves it simply comes across as spoiled. This is also reflected with the many posters here on this thread who are quite happy to trade their continued economic prosperity (because that affects them) with people dying en-masse as 'well it doesn't affect me, so why should I bother' attitude. The selfishness is truly something to behold.

 

I in turn will now apologise as although this thread seems to be directed at you personally, it's really directed at all the other boomers who still continue to live in their self-absorbed bubble and who put self over the good of the whole. It is reflected in their politics, their world view and their attitude to the Covid subject (which is even more surprising considering they are classified in the 'most vulnerable' category). 

 

NOTE TO OTHER READERS:- I am obviously not talking about ALL boomers so if you are reading this with a 'I'm not like that' then fine. It's not directed at you and you don't need to comment.

 

  

 

  

     

[chessman]

8 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Also, you are not a part of the greatest generation who fought and died for all of our liberty (unless you are over 90) but you did enjoy the prosperity and benefits they created so when someone like myself (Gen X) sees a lack of empathy from the boomer generation for those less fortunate than themselves it simply comes across as spoiled. This is also reflected with the many posters here on this thread who are quite happy to trade their continued economic prosperity (because that affects them) with people dying en-masse as 'well it doesn't affect me, so why should I bother' attitude. The selfishness is truly something to behold.

 

I in turn will now apologise as although this thread seems to be directed at you personally, it's really directed at all the other boomers who still continue to live in their self-absorbed bubble and who put self over the good of the whole. It is reflected in their politics, their world view and their attitude to the Covid subject (which is even more surprising considering they are classified in the 'most vulnerable' category). 

very well said

[Krataiboy]

On 4/19/2020 at 9:27 AM, rumak said:

Frankly I am amazed how quickly everyone became obedient servants .  very scary 

 

This is the new normal i guess.   Any dissent is squashed as easy as swatting a fly. 

 

I think many people up to now have been able to stay under the radar and more or less

live our lives as we saw fit....... under, on the side,  somehow managing to maintain some sense of individual freedom.    When businesses,  mail,  activities,  venues,  beaches ! ,  etc are all shut

down and we are told to stay home and wear a mask at all times ..... something starts to get very uneasy in my gut.      It is FEAR,  but not of a virus my friends

Your apprehension is doubtless shared by many. The irrational and incredibly self-destructive way Western governments have reacted and continue to act - trashing their economies and trampling civil rights - appears to an act of collective suicide. 

 

Clearly, this cannot be so. Hope I'm wrong, but. . . 

 

More likely, the COVID 19 scare is being hyped to usher in a new global normal of perpetual  pandemics, mandatory vaccinations, lockdowns, social distancing, compulsory tracking apps, digital ID tattoos and health certificates - with the whole caboodle monitored and controlled by the 5G matrix now being hastily rolled out in our fear-emptied streets.

 

Today China. Tomorrow the world?

[rumak]

23 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Your apprehension is doubtless shared by many. The irrational and incredibly self-destructive way Western governments have reacted and continue to act - trashing their economies and trampling civil rights - appears to an act of collective suicide. 

 

Clearly, this cannot be so. Hope I'm wrong, but. . . 

 

More likely, the COVID 19 scare is being hyped to usher in a new global normal of perpetual  pandemics, mandatory vaccinations, lockdowns, social distancing, compulsory tracking apps, digital ID tattoos and health certificates - with the whole caboodle monitored and controlled by the 5G matrix now being hastily rolled out in our fear-emptied streets.

 

Today China. Tomorrow the world?

 

As most posters here (TV)  laugh at your (and mine)  hallucinations.......... so do the "experts" 

laugh as they look down on how easily it was to carry out

this lockdown of a PLANET .

I am sure the link, if i post it,  to a (scripted) interview with B Gates on Easter sunday....( BBC ) will

somehow get deleted,  so if by chance a few of you want to listen to it and the commentary

by a few people opposed to him calling himself an expert .... try to find it on youtube.

 

I am inconvenienced by this whole thing,  but know that million..... or billions.... are getting

hurt more than I am.  Hope C carlos can somehow get back to his family,  and others seperated

as well.   There is no point arguing with the  "for the greater good" crowd  ,  because they of

course are taking what the masters say as fact.   

 

Humans have a myriad of diseases :  flu,  cancer,  heart disease,  hiv,  hepatitis, diabetes,

I could list till tomorrow.    I think the day is coming soon.  Lockdown till you are called out

to come get your shot.      or else.     Nahhh,  it will all be back to normal soon.  Right Bill ?

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by rumak

[cornishcarlos]

4 minutes ago, rumak said:

  Hope C carlos can somehow get back to his family,  and others seperated

 

Thank you.. I'm not holding out much hope that it will happen anytime soon and think that I might have to make plans to go back to U.K and try to get my wife there with me !! I'm also reliant on my relief being able to get back into Singapore from Ireland .. 

[rumak]

2 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Thank you.. I'm not holding out much hope that it will happen anytime soon and think that I might have to make plans to go back to U.K and try to get my wife there with me !! I'm also reliant on my relief being able to get back into Singapore from Ireland .. 

good luck...  so many people caught up in this.   Not even letting people get "home"  is really

insane. 

did you listen to Gates interview?      read the comments.   

[cornishcarlos]

3 minutes ago, rumak said:

good luck...  so many people caught up in this.   Not even letting people get "home"  is really

insane. 

did you listen to Gates interview?      read the comments.   

 

I'll have a look for it 

[rumak]

1 minute ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

I'll have a look for it 

i hope OD has a look at it as well .    bill gates easter sunday interview bbc      goooooogle

[johnnybangkok]

33 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Your apprehension is doubtless shared by many. The irrational and incredibly self-destructive way Western governments have reacted and continue to act - trashing their economies and trampling civil rights - appears to an act of collective suicide. 

 

Clearly, this cannot be so. Hope I'm wrong, but. . . 

 

More likely, the COVID 19 scare is being hyped to usher in a new global normal of perpetual  pandemics, mandatory vaccinations, lockdowns, social distancing, compulsory tracking apps, digital ID tattoos and health certificates - with the whole caboodle monitored and controlled by the 5G matrix now being hastily rolled out in our fear-emptied streets.

 

Today China. Tomorrow the world?

No. His apprehension is shared by a very small but very vocal few who just love a good conspiracy theory (yourself included).

Governments have (on the whole) been caught short and are desperately trying to get out of their own self-inflicted mess with as little loss to human life as possible and if they tempoarily have to 'trash their economies' then that's the price that has to be paid because rightly so, most people believe that human life is more important than money. It is a very unfortunate (and ultimately avoidable) postion they have put themselves in but it will be temporary and we will see the end of it, hopefully sooner rather than later. And as far as civil rights are concerned, is it not my civil right to not catch a disease that could be deadly to me as opposed to your ill conceived right to carry on as normal?  

There will be no 'global normal of perpetual pandemics' (don't be ridiculous), vaccinations should be manditory and any lockdowns, social distancing and the likes should be compulsory if it is for the good of the overall.

Now when we get to 'compulsory tracking apps' and 'digital ID tattoos' (whatever they are) then perhaps you'll have a point but just pull your tinfoil hat a bit lower and hopefully no-one will recognise who you are.  

 

[rumak]

14 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

No. His apprehension is shared by a very small but very vocal few

ah,  always so easy to dismiss what you don't like.

 

you have a TRUE  figure on how many people may feel this way?

Or is it another "fact"  that you are priveledge to ?

 

How about trying the " everybody knows"  line    lol

 

you know, it is a fact that the brightest people on earth represent a very small percentage.

unfortunately their only access to others is in comment sections , where guys

like you  just laughhhh

 

when you have to throw the "tin foil hat"  comment into your post it becomes obvious that you can not think for yourself.   

Edited April 20, 2020 by rumak

[Logosone]

58 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Your apprehension is doubtless shared by many. The irrational and incredibly self-destructive way Western governments have reacted and continue to act - trashing their economies and trampling civil rights - appears to an act of collective suicide. 

 

Clearly, this cannot be so. Hope I'm wrong, but. . . 

 

More likely, the COVID 19 scare is being hyped to usher in a new global normal of perpetual  pandemics, mandatory vaccinations, lockdowns, social distancing, compulsory tracking apps, digital ID tattoos and health certificates - with the whole caboodle monitored and controlled by the 5G matrix now being hastily rolled out in our fear-emptied streets.

 

Today China. Tomorrow the world?

It's much worse than that, I fear, rather than there being a grand design behind the madness it really is just one long inglorious chain of errors, miscalculations and outright incompetence, from Neil Ferguson to Boris Johnson to Angela Merkel, to China to Japan's Diamond Princess or South Korea's religious lunatics there is a never ending procession of idiots to choose from.

 

Yes we'll end up with perpetual pandemics, mandatory vaccinations, tracking apps and health certificates to travel for sure, but it's more going to be the result of endless stupidity and incompetence rather than a grand fiendish design.

[mauGR1]

33 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

And as far as civil rights are concerned, is it not my civil right to not catch a disease that could be deadly to me as opposed to your ill conceived right to carry on as normal?  

Yes, please, you can stay in lock down forever. Enjoy.

..Oh, and don't forget, life is deadly

[totally thaied up]

In the paper that must not be named, they are talking about 5 exit strategies. It was a good read.  It's on the front page of the website currently.

 

Sorry to say one of the strategies was this. Looks like Pattaya is frigged for a long time boys.

 

He admitted high-risk businesses, such as bars, karaokes, entertainment places and gambling dens, would have to be closed for a long time.

[Logosone]

There are two considerations here, one, does an industry have a strong lobby? The agricultural lobby is very strong for instance, so they already succeeded in Germany and the UK to obtain special privileges to get back to business.

 

The second is whether a sector is considered "key" or "essential". Obviously food will be considered such.

 

Bars, karaoke, massage spas and such will be unlikely to be considered such and have no lobby to speak of.

 

 

[totally thaied up]

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

There are two considerations here, one, does an industry have a strong lobby? The agricultural lobby is very strong for instance, so they already succeeded in Germany and the UK to obtain special privileges to get back to business.

 

The second is whether a sector is considered "key" or "essential". Obviously food will be considered such.

 

Bars, karaoke, massage spas and such will be unlikely to be considered such and have no lobby to speak of.

 

 

I agree with you totally. The essential services should get back to some form of normalcy. Places like Pattaya are going to be hit hard from this. I cannot see these areas opening up for some time. I wonder if they are going to keep a curfew for a bit longer.  

[Logosone]

Meanwhile in Sweden where bars, restaurants and massage spas have been open and continue to be open:

 

"Sweden could have 'herd immunity' by next month, claims its infectious diseases chief amid as deaths stay low despite relaxed lockdown measures"

 

"Dr Tegnell has defended his limited interventions, telling The Mail on Sunday that he believed that Britain's lockdown had gone too far.

 

He told the paper that Sweden was 'following' the UK's original approach of resisting lockdown, and was 'disappointed' by Britain's abrupt U-turn.

 

'I am very sceptical of lockdowns altogether but if you ever do them, you should do them at an early stage,' Dr Tegnell claimed.

 

He added: 'So far, what we are doing is working. In a sense we are beating it, and I am confident we are doing the best we can in the circumstances.'

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233783/Sweden-herd-immunity-month-claims-infectious-diseases-chief.html

Edited April 20, 2020 by Logosone

[FarFlungFalang]

Flattening the curve with lockdowns is done to give hospitals a chance to maybe save some of the lives of the 5% of critical cases due to an overload of critical patients possibly 5-10% of the critical patients lives might be saved (hard to tell if they might have survived or not).Thailand is approaching 3000 infections so about 150 critical so 7.5 to 15 lives have may have been saved so far!About 1/3 of the daily road toll! 

[FarFlungFalang]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

No. His apprehension is shared by a very small but very vocal few who just love a good conspiracy theory (yourself included).

Governments have (on the whole) been caught short and are desperately trying to get out of their own self-inflicted mess with as little loss to human life as possible and if they tempoarily have to 'trash their economies' then that's the price that has to be paid because rightly so, most people believe that human life is more important than money. It is a very unfortunate (and ultimately avoidable) postion they have put themselves in but it will be temporary and we will see the end of it, hopefully sooner rather than later. And as far as civil rights are concerned, is it not my civil right to not catch a disease that could be deadly to me as opposed to your ill conceived right to carry on as normal?  

There will be no 'global normal of perpetual pandemics' (don't be ridiculous), vaccinations should be manditory and any lockdowns, social distancing and the likes should be compulsory if it is for the good of the overall.

Now when we get to 'compulsory tracking apps' and 'digital ID tattoos' (whatever they are) then perhaps you'll have a point but just pull your tinfoil hat a bit lower and hopefully no-one will recognise who you are.  

 

The average yearly flu deaths in Thailand is about 2700 which is over 50 times deadlier than C19 at this stage do you fear the flu as much as C19?

[johnnybangkok]

34 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Meanwhile in Sweden where bars, restaurants and massage spas have been open and continue to be open:

 

"Sweden could have 'herd immunity' by next month, claims its infectious diseases chief amid as deaths stay low despite relaxed lockdown measures"

 

"Dr Tegnell has defended his limited interventions, telling The Mail on Sunday that he believed that Britain's lockdown had gone too far.

 

He told the paper that Sweden was 'following' the UK's original approach of resisting lockdown, and was 'disappointed' by Britain's abrupt U-turn.

 

'I am very sceptical of lockdowns altogether but if you ever do them, you should do them at an early stage,' Dr Tegnell claimed.

 

He added: 'So far, what we are doing is working. In a sense we are beating it, and I am confident we are doing the best we can in the circumstances.'

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233783/Sweden-herd-immunity-month-claims-infectious-diseases-chief.html

God you love those Swedes don't you? Was it Agnetha or Frida that did it for you?

Actual scratch that. Obviously Frida.  

[johnnybangkok]

12 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

The average yearly flu deaths in Thailand is about 2700 which is over 50 times deadlier than C19 at this stage do you fear the flu as much as C19?

Actually I don't fear either as I don't fall into the 'most at risk' category. I was just refuting a ridiculous point with another one.

But if I had to choose I would go with Covid what with the 20 to 30 times more deadly bit.

[FarFlungFalang]

4 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Actually I don't fear either as I don't fall into the 'most at risk' category. I was just refuting a ridiculous point with another one.

But if I had to choose I would go with Covid what with the 20 to 30 times more deadly bit.

I'm still waiting to see if C19 global death toll reaches the global yearly flu death toll of 400,000 to see if I've chosen the right argument that C19 is just a flu which I hope to win as that would mean a much lower than feared death toll of C19.

[Logosone]

14 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

God you love those Swedes don't you? Was it Agnetha or Frida that did it for you?

Actual scratch that. Obviously Frida.  

Well the first love of my life was Swedish. My grandparents had a summer house in Sweden. I used to go there in winter for skiiing. What's not to love, they're very friendly sensible people.

 

And they're smart.

 

But the point is their chief epidemiologist is taking a courageous stance. He is allowing people to be adults.

 

He is allowing a country to continue to go in the sun. Which a Spanish study shows could be very important, as Vitamain D shows real benefits for Covid19 patients.

 

He is allowing people to be free.

 

What's not to love?