Interesting take from Sweden

[luckyluke]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:08 PM, mauGR1 said:

the funny thing is when they try to convince other people that they are right.

 

Happens all the time, on every subject, on every topic.

 

How many will write ;

" This is my fervent opinion, but I concede I may be wrong "

 

Add to this that some even find it inappropriate that others claim they know the so called "truth", but have no problem at all to claim that their "truth" is the correct one.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

Happens all the time, on every subject, on every topic.

 

How many will write ;

" This is my fervent opinion, but I concede I may be wrong "

 

Add to this that some even find it inappropriate that others claim they know the so called "truth", but have no problem at all to claim that their "truth" is the correct one.

I agree with your principles, of course.

The thing is, we all have to find a way to live together in peace, i call it civilisation.

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I agree with your principles, of course.

 

In principle,

of course.

 

When one read the topic about "God" it is evident that for many their interpretation is the only correct one, with no mention at all they may be wrong.

 

But back to Sweden.

 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

In principle,

of course.

 

When one read the topic about "God" it is evident that for many their interpretation is the only correct one, with no mention at all they may be wrong.

 

But back to Sweden.

 

Right, if you want to debate God, the thread is there.

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Right, if you want to debate God, the thread is there.

No, 
I just want to state that whoever may be wrong in his opinions, whatever they are, on whatever subject.

I am aware that this is my opinion.

 

[rvaviator]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

 

Happens all the time, on every subject, on every topic.

 

How many will write ;

" This is my fervent opinion, but I concede I may be wrong "

 

Add to this that some even find it inappropriate that others claim they know the so called "truth", but have no problem at all to claim that their "truth" is the correct one.

5555 ... Maybe easier to find a poster who will be happy to write ;

 

Once I thought I was wrong ... but I was mistaken

 

???? ....

[MikeyIdea]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How do you explain that the town where I live has very few people wearing masks, but has ZERO cases of Corona?

If one lives in New York it's probably a good idea to wear a mask in public, but in a small country town with no cases they are obviously not needed. The response should be tailored to the situation, as one size does not fit all.

How can I explain if you don't give me the demographics and name of the city? 

[havair]

For those who feel Sweden is taking the right path in fighting the virus,   What do you feel is an acceptable death rate compared to its neighbors , Denmark , Finland , Norway ?  Twice as many deaths , 3 times as many deaths , 5 times ?   

[MikeyIdea]

The main point may not be asymptomatic transmission, masks and lock down or not. Early, small investigations indicate that young people only produce low levels of antibodies which may not produce immunity and older people produce more antibodies than younger. We have no idea how long immunity will last either at this stage. 

 

I got a nasty virus called Cytomegalo once, was really sick and lost 10 kilos of weight. The antibody test I took showed that I had already had it but antibody levels were so low that I could get reinfected.

 

We can't assume, we'll have to wait for scientific evidence. Its just smart to protect ourselves until we know

Edited April 29, 2020 by MikeyIdea

[steelepulse]

6 hours ago, havair said:

For those who feel Sweden is taking the right path in fighting the virus,   What do you feel is an acceptable death rate compared to its neighbors , Denmark , Finland , Norway ?  Twice as many deaths , 3 times as many deaths , 5 times ?   

I guess we'll have to see what happens in waves 2, 3 and 4 to determine this based solely on your question without taking any other factors into consideration such as suicide, depression, losing one's house, etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, havair said:

For those who feel Sweden is taking the right path in fighting the virus,   What do you feel is an acceptable death rate compared to its neighbors , Denmark , Finland , Norway ?  Twice as many deaths , 3 times as many deaths , 5 times ?   

Might as well ask what is an acceptable death rate from car accidents or poverty. They don't stop people driving or being poor.

The death rate is what it is, and no one said life was fair. Far as I know, no one has any concern for the people that live on rubbish tips, yet they will die before their time.

The west only cares about this because it's killing us, as opposed to some tribes in Africa.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

How can I explain if you don't give me the demographics and name of the city? 

I already knew the answer, but I want to know how others would explain it, as it does not fit the narrative.

[steelepulse]

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

He should stick to keto vids. His Swedish data is not Swedish!

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Haha, he does do good keto vids for those needing to lose weight.

 

However, his stats look like these stats, in that the number of deaths is falling, just as he showed in the video.  Look at the number of deaths in the last 5 days and it definitely is falling, and falling pretty quickly.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105753/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden/

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, steelepulse said:

Haha, he does do good keto vids for those needing to lose weight.

 

However, his stats look like these stats, in that the number of deaths is falling, just as he showed in the video.  Look at the number of deaths in the last 5 days and it definitely is falling, and falling pretty quickly.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105753/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden/

That's the problem. His stats don't look like your stats, or mine (below from Worldometer today).

 

And the BBC reports: "The Swedish city of Lund is to spread chicken manure in its central park in an effort to deter crowds gathering for a festival." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52481096. A very stinky way to enforce social distancing! 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by nauseus

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[Logosone]

53 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That's the problem. His stats don't look like your stats, or mine (below from Worldometer today).

 

And the BBC reports: "The Swedish city of Lund is to spread chicken manure in its central park in an effort to deter crowds gathering for a festival." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52481096. A very stinky way to enforce social distancing! 

 

Well the manure is certainly a very fitting social distancing policy tool, the means match the policy.

 

Looking at Ourworldindata.org we can see clearly that rate of increase in Sweden is slower than in the UK, and dare I say it, Germany. So Sweden still doing very well indeed:

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Well the manure is certainly a very fitting social distancing policy tool, the means match the policy.

 

Looking at Ourworldindata.org we can see clearly that rate of increase in Sweden is slower than in the UK, and dare I say it, Germany. So Sweden still doing very well indeed:

 

 

Yes, say it, Germany has done very well.

 

But Sweden not so well in relative terms (per million). Data from same site. Top plot is UK.

 

 

[MikeyIdea]

8 hours ago, steelepulse said:

Haha, he does do good keto vids for those needing to lose weight.

 

However, his stats look like these stats, in that the number of deaths is falling, just as he showed in the video.  Look at the number of deaths in the last 5 days and it definitely is falling, and falling pretty quickly.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105753/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden/

Sweden's numbers are always fluctuating more than in many other countries because they include many (but not all) deaths outside hospitals too and those are only reported on weekdays and are adjusted afterwards more often. It was up to 107 again yesterday. 

 

Numbers are starting to look less bad because of a rather embarrassing reason by the way:

Sweden until recently had the policy that health care workers outside of hospitals didn't need any extra protective equipment at all. They still have the policy to not send sick elderly to hospital to protect the famous curve, they increase care at home instead. A sick elderly can be cared for by up to 10 different people in a day in Sweden. 

 

Now, this caused elderly being cared for at home to die like flies, obviously. The carers are now wearing masks (not N95's) and deaths are starting to drop a bit. 

 

Sweden's mortality rate per 100,000 inhabitants compared to its neighbours is very bad, take demographics like population density into consideration and it is appalling. Go to worldometer and sort by deaths by 100,000 and Sweden is the eleventh worst country in the world. Take away the very very small entries like San Marino and Sint Maarten which aren't "real countries" and Sweden is the seventh worst country. 

 

I went on a skiing holiday to Sweden in March and I am stuck here. I wish I weren't. This is not my idea of a safe place. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by MikeyIdea

[chessman]

9 hours ago, Logosone said:

So Sweden still doing very well indeed:

This guy would agree with you, his name is Gustav Lloyd Agerblad. He likes Sweden’s approach so much he got a tattoo of Anders Tegnell, the state epidemiologist who is masterminding Sweden’s approach. I wonder if this is the first ever tattoo of an epidemiologist?

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, chessman said:

This guy would agree with you, his name is Gustav Lloyd Agerblad. He likes Sweden’s approach so much he got a tattoo of Anders Tegnell, the state epidemiologist who is masterminding Sweden’s approach. I wonder if this is the first ever tattoo of an epidemiologist?

Who is the other guy? ????

[Bkk Brian]

Sweden's getting plenty of praise from WHO

 

The major difference in Sweden’s approach is trust in the population. Ryan said: “What it has done differently is it is very much relying on its relationship with its citizenry. It really has trusted its own communities to implement that physical distance.”

That trust, combined with strategic controls and clear communication, could provide a template for other countries that are loosening lockdown restrictions to safely adapt to a new normal. Ryan said: "If we are to reach a new normal, in many ways Sweden represents a future model." 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/29-april-who-briefing-trust-sweden/

[TheDark]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sweden's getting plenty of praise from WHO

 

The major difference in Sweden’s approach is trust in the population. Ryan said: “What it has done differently is it is very much relying on its relationship with its citizenry. It really has trusted its own communities to implement that physical distance.”

That trust, combined with strategic controls and clear communication, could provide a template for other countries that are loosening lockdown restrictions to safely adapt to a new normal. Ryan said: "If we are to reach a new normal, in many ways Sweden represents a future model." 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/29-april-who-briefing-trust-sweden/

Good to read the reasons why WHO's Ryan says. Sweden's population is still well educated and disciplined. This does not apply to some of the western countries anymore.

 

Physical distancing is in built to Swedish psyche and yet, Sweden now has 250 death per million, which is one of the highest ones.

 

 

[tlock]

 

It's crucial to have at least 1 control group in this lockdown experiment, kudos to the Swedes.  

 

I am confused about the "new normal" I keep hearing about?  Is the premise that we will social distance forever after lockdowns are lifted?  

 

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, tlock said:

 

It's crucial to have at least 1 control group in this lockdown experiment, kudos to the Swedes.  

 

I am confused about the "new normal" I keep hearing about?  Is the premise that we will social distance forever after lockdowns are lifted?  

 

The "new normal" it's the scariest part, can you imagine, no more parties, no more hugs, no more kisses.

As an old man, i may not care, but will the young generations accept it ?

[yuyiinthesky]

1 hour ago, tlock said:

I am confused about the "new normal" I keep hearing about?  Is the premise that we will social distance forever after lockdowns are lifted?  

 

Looking at the locals around me here, there was never much social distancing, and by now it seems to be back to be as before. Also masks, may be 1 in 10 still uses one (often old and dirty by now, slipping down to the chin), and that are usually employees of shops and banks. 

The last birthday parties I attended a few days ago were as before. Handshakes, hugging, alcohol (don't tell the Covid snitches).

I think it it'll go back to normal quickly, at least here, simply because the announced mass dying did not come, did not happen here.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, tlock said:

 

It's crucial to have at least 1 control group in this lockdown experiment, kudos to the Swedes.  

 

I am confused about the "new normal" I keep hearing about?  Is the premise that we will social distance forever after lockdowns are lifted?  

 

There are some politicians that IMO ( and that of others ) are lovin' this total control over their "subjects". No need for parliament or an opposition.

It would not surprise me if they seek to keep control of some sort after. Hurrah for elections.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

will the young generations accept it ?

Never. Sexual attraction will always win, in the end.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

I think it it'll go back to normal quickly, at least here, simply because the announced mass dying did not come, did not happen here.

Indeed. For the past 4 weeks I was informed at regular intervals through the day ( while the radio was on )  that if I did not isolate I would be responsible for thousands dying. In reality, I didn't cause the death of anyone as ZERO infections where I live.

Had they been less dramatic I might have been more inclined to take the propaganda seriously. Many people ignored the diktat altogether as lots of arrests for breaking the rules.