English teacher with poor pronunciation sparks online storm

[marquis22]

On 5/19/2020 at 4:35 PM, trainman34014 said:

Auditioned by who; someone who can do no better than her no doubt ?  When it comes to English they need proper Native speaking Teachers as their own Thai Teachers are near useless !

I once knew a Thai English teacher and true she was hopeless in understanding, pronunciation and teaching English.

But then again she was only paid 15000 baht a month!

[Blumpie]

10 hours ago, johng said:

Today I found the 15 DLTV (Distance Learning TV) channels and watched a bit of  DLTV 13  which seems to be aimed at adult education (no not that type of adult education) about cooking schools teaching tourist Thai dishes including "Poo"  from the "Pee and Poo" cookery school  no joke ...she was quite good at explaining my wife said so ...  catchphrase "SpeakUp"  encouraging Thais not to be embarrassed about speaking English.

Only a scumbag would laugh at someone attempting english who is struggling, in front of or behind their backs.  To teach english when one doesn't have a grasp on the language, well, I wouldn't laugh at them but I would question the quality of one's education.  

[Grumpy John]

On 5/19/2020 at 4:09 PM, johng said:

 

A bit like that around here at times!  Only taken 2 years to get the missus to say Kerry Express delivery and not Kelly Express delivery.  Took 5 years for her to write John instead of Jonh.  Spaghetti is noddles but macaroni is still a blank stare!  ???? 

[KhaoYai]

On 5/20/2020 at 9:46 AM, n00dle said:

I made sure my daughter had a selection of books by both uk and amercan authours (among others) and once she could read for herself she did question some of the differences she noted. 

Your daughter is lucky, her father is a native English speaker - 99.9% of Thai kids don't have that advantage.

 

I suppose it depends on the school but from what I've seen of the teaching of English in Thailand its hardly surpising that the standard is very low.  I wouldn't care if Jamaican English was the international standard, its just that if there is a standard, it should be adhered to.

 

However, there are far more important things that need putting right:

 

A. There will no doubt be some good native English speaking teachers but I'm yet to come across one that was a teacher in his/her home country before they went to Thailand.  Many seem to be in the job as a way of being able to stay in Thailand with their wife/girlfriend.

 

The trend now seems to be to employ Filipino's, almost certainly because they will work for lower salaries.  I have a Filipino friend who, whilst speaking English very well, uses Americanisms and his written English is full of grammatical errors - some of which are due to the version of English he was taught.

 

B. Paying teachers 25 to 30k per month is unlikely to attract decent quality people. The starting salary for an English teacher in the UK (outside London) is around 85k (baht) per month.

 

C. The Thai text books need throwing away and new ones writing by people who actually speak English - and today's English, not the English my great grandmother spoke.

 

D. Before being allowed to teach English, Thai teachers should have to pass a written and practical exam - written and adjudicated by a native English speaker.  I believe the Thai staff that teach English cause far more problems than any others - probably because they were taught poorly themselves.

 

My niece is 10 and attends a Catholic school where quite a few of the subjects are taught in English.  On the phone tonight, she asked me why she had to use the word 'dear' when greeting someone. Her teacher (Thai) told her she should say "Hello dear, how are you?" - maybe the text books are from the 19th century. Who the hell, apart from your granny, speaks like that?

Edited May 21, 2020 by KhaoYai

[CaptainCarrot]

On 5/20/2020 at 10:38 AM, Phil McCaverty said:

"Which one is the better option?"

 

just sayin' 555

Then 'which is the better option' would be the better option ????

[fredwiggy]

What we say sounds funny to them also

[KhunFred]

On 5/19/2020 at 4:28 PM, Cake Monster said:

My Daughter was greeted with " Good Evening >>> < How are you tomorrow " when she signed in this Morning

With Teachers such as these, there is no hope for the Country

There are still many Thai people who insist that farang teachers are taking jobs away from Thais by teaching English here. Perhaps they should take more of those jobs. This woman was nearly incomprehensible.

[Nielsen]

They need to stop dubbing the movies on TV. It's mostly because the kids never get to hear spoken English, other than from their teachers that their pronunciation is so bad.

The more they are subjected to hearing English the better for their learning.

[Fex Bluse]

Almost everything is wrong. And, her abilities are VERY common even among Thais who graduate from top universities in Thailand. 

 

I think the only things she got correct are 

 

We 

It's 

 

That's it. Everything else wrong. 

[Fex Bluse]

20 minutes ago, Nielsen said:

They need to stop dubbing the movies on TV. It's mostly because the kids never get to hear spoken English, other than from their teachers that their pronunciation is so bad.

The more they are subjected to hearing English the better for their learning.

Nah, it's because, just like with many other Thai endeavours, competence is not important to them. It is only the superficiality they care about. It's a problem throughout the culture. 

[johng]

19 hours ago, johng said:

"Poo"  from the "Pee and Poo" cookery school  no joke

And here is the program   Cooking with Poo ????

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by johng
wrong video

[Mark mark]

On 5/19/2020 at 6:35 PM, IvorBiggun2 said:

I saw the program and my kids were in bits laughing. It was truly bad English. Was she auditioned before being put on the TV?

Well better then nothing I think !!! ??? .... If the students can end up speaking like her, they would be understood. ..... Not great academics ... or scientists ... ....  but Understood ! .... and I think they also would also enjoy giving it a go as well !!!  ... Like hard to loose face in front if her I think ? Right ? .... I think ??? Har Har .... 

[MaxYakov]

On 5/21/2020 at 2:00 PM, BritManToo said:

This is the only Thai teacher I want.

One too broke to buy a holster?

[cooked]

12 hours ago, Blumpie said:

Only a scumbag would laugh at someone attempting english who is struggling, in front of or behind their backs.  To teach english when one doesn't have a grasp on the language, well, I wouldn't laugh at them but I would question the quality of one's education.  

Only a scumbag would assume that this is about this particular teacher. They're all like that and that's the problem. 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, cooked said:

Only a scumbag would assume that this is about this particular teacher. They're all like that and that's the problem. 

You do know what a scumbag is, right ?

[Phil McCaverty]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You do know what a scumbag is, right ?

In the UK, a despicable person. In the US, a condom.

[richard_smith237]

12 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Your daughter is lucky, her father is a native English speaker - 99.9% of Thai kids don't have that advantage.

 

I suppose it depends on the school but from what I've seen of the teaching of English in Thailand its hardly surpising that the standard is very low.  I wouldn't care if Jamaican English was the international standard, its just that if there is a standard, it should be adhered to.

 

However, there are far more important things that need putting right:

 

A. There will no doubt be some good native English speaking teachers but I'm yet to come across one that was a teacher in his/her home country before they went to Thailand.  Many seem to be in the job as a way of being able to stay in Thailand with their wife/girlfriend.

 

The trend now seems to be to employ Filipino's, almost certainly because they will work for lower salaries.  I have a Filipino friend who, whilst speaking English very well, uses Americanisms and his written English is full of grammatical errors - some of which are due to the version of English he was taught.

 

B. Paying teachers 25 to 30k per month is unlikely to attract decent quality people. The starting salary for an English teacher in the UK (outside London) is around 85k (baht) per month.

 

C. The Thai text books need throwing away and new ones writing by people who actually speak English - and today's English, not the English my great grandmother spoke.

 

D. Before being allowed to teach English, Thai teachers should have to pass a written and practical exam - written and adjudicated by a native English speaker.  I believe the Thai staff that teach English cause far more problems than any others - probably because they were taught poorly themselves.

 

My niece is 10 and attends a Catholic school where quite a few of the subjects are taught in English.  On the phone tonight, she asked me why she had to use the word 'dear' when greeting someone. Her teacher (Thai) told her she should say "Hello dear, how are you?" - maybe the text books are from the 19th century. Who the hell, apart from your granny, speaks like that?

I think this represents a solid summary of the issues at hand.

 

Most of us [Westerners] who have children in Thailand provide an advantage which Thai children would never have; we are constantly correcting and improving our children's pronunciation and grammar.

 

Example at hand (unfortunately I'm locked out of Thailand at the moment): My Son (6 yrs old) reads three books to me each day (before I give him a story), his pronunciation is sometimes off. For example, he will pronounce 'wit' instead of 'with', which in itself is not a significant issue, however, in combination with further pronunciation and grammatical errors failures in his education could be highlighted unless given constant attention.

 

At school Native 'professionals' are required to teach English at a standard many require. While I am a native English speaker, I am not a professional; I'm not trained to teach - this is why international schools pay a premium for their qualified and experienced English teachers.

 

Those schools which are unable to afford 'native English teachers' may be forgiven for choosing non-native English teachers, however, those non-native's must at the very least have passable English otherwise the continued standards in more deprived areas will be awful. There are enough Thai people who speak pretty decent English who could be better utilised in these areas, as could 'foreign volunteers'. I have often seen comments (on this forum) of retirees who would be happy to volunteer some of their time to help teach English in the local, provincial schools, however, the idiotic necessity for a Work Permit is ultimately preventing this possibility.

 

 

 

 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

On 5/21/2020 at 6:57 PM, johng said:

Today I found the 15 DLTV (Distance Learning TV) channels and watched a bit of  DLTV 13  which seems to be aimed at adult education (no not that type of adult education) about cooking schools teaching tourist Thai dishes

I did the same today as well. I had enough of the wife's Thai dramas and their constant yelling and DUN DUN DUN, so started flipping and found DLTV. I told her come on, watch this, it's a lot more enriching.

 

I landed on some M4 English lessons done very well as a TV show/documentary called "Workshop", covering farming, coffee growing, and working in a coffee shop. One of the presenters seems to be a well known entrepreneur from Chiang Mai, who studied abroad and came back to start a coffee business. He goes back and forth speaking excellent English and Thai, guiding along his M4 intern cohost. Then there are mini lessons from a Thai English teacher, speaking well and using a display board to arrange words in sentences.

 

A shame this level of teaching isn't making its way into the schools, and the rest of the distance learning doesn't seem to achieve the same level of quality.

Edited May 22, 2020 by CrunchWrapSupreme
typos

[thesetat2013]

My gr1 kid has an online English class also. That teacher is no better than what was in this article for gr6. Very bad pronunciation and even worse intonation causing a lack of understanding by my daughters. Their English is better than hers. Haha 

[Artisi]

17 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

A bit like that around here at times!  Only taken 2 years to get the missus to say Kerry Express delivery and not Kelly Express delivery.  Took 5 years for her to write John instead of Jonh.  Spaghetti is noddles but macaroni is still a blank stare!  ???? 

Shouldn't that be, Kelly ekpless derivly? 

[KhaoYai]

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those schools which are unable to afford 'native English teachers' may be forgiven for choosing non-native English teachers

I don't know how much truth there is in this but I was discussing this with some ex pats last year. I'd often wondered how foreign teachers can get a work permit/visa when their salary is often well below the 50k per month required for those in other employment.

 

I was told that schools are in fact paid 50k per month by the government to employ foreign teachers and that amount goes on their tax return so satisfies the legal requirements. Their actual salaries may be far less - if that's true, I think I know where the remainder goes.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if it is true - I know for a fact that one large-ish company in Bangkok does not pay all its foreign employees 50k and also employ far more foreigners than they should.  The officers at the local immigration office are quite happy though ????.

[ChipButty]

On 5/21/2020 at 9:21 AM, Gandtee said:

I know a few foreigners who can't speak perfect English.????

Yes, but they are not teaching kids a new language 

[ChipButty]

On 5/22/2020 at 5:57 AM, Grumpy John said:

A bit like that around here at times!  Only taken 2 years to get the missus to say Kerry Express delivery and not Kelly Express delivery.  

I have heard them say Kurry 

[teatime101]

 

But which English dialect is 'correct'? South or north? And what about Scottish and Irish 'English'?

Pronunciation is not set in stone, and obsessing about it is silly.

 

 

[KhaoYai]

11 hours ago, teatime101 said:

Pronunciation is not set in stone, and obsessing about it is silly.

I haven't seen anyone obsessing about pronunciation but it is important - especially to someone who's native language is tonal.

 

When at home in my local area I speak with a strong Yorkshire accent however, I am perfectly capable of speaking what is known as the 'The Queen's English' - that is English without an accent. I don't find it difficult and don't really have to think about it. I think many people change their speach according to their surroundings - although they may not even realise they are doing it.

 

However, some don't - if teachers speak with an accent whilst teaching then there will no doubt be problems.  Consider this - someone with a strong Southern accent will pronounce 'out' as 'aat'. A few years ago I met a guy in a bar in Buriram, he was a bit worse for wear and told me he was an 'Anglish teacha'. How would you expect a Thai to understand those examples?

 

If the above examples are the only ways they have heard of pronunciation, maybe a native English speaker would understand them but another non native English speaker? I doubt it. And that gets to the whole point of this - having an international language is a way for people of all nations to understand each other.  It is not a way for only native English speakers to undertstand them.  Differences in the meaning of words, different spellings and strong accents goes against the whole concept of an international language.

 

Teachers should not only teach the international language - British English, they should also speak without an accent.

Edited May 24, 2020 by KhaoYai

[GinBoy2]

This is the topic that is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

My kid was born in Singapore, and as he was growing up Mom spoke to him in Thai and Lao, I spoke to him in English & Mandarin, so he ended up a pretty good polyglot speaking fluently in four languages, although after he could speak while we were in Singapore we used English as the primary, and he learned to write English and Mandarin at school, while Mom taught him to write Thai at home.

 

When we moved from Singapore to Thailand when he was in middle school, I'm not sure if to describe it as sad, tragic, awful, words fail me. His English homework was corrected with gibberish more often than not, and he'd often come home saying, Mom, Dad I don't understand a word the teacher is saying to me.

 

Now accents are hard. Kids don't speak the accent of their parents, otherwise my son would have had a mix of my Californian and my wife's Chicago accent, They speak the accent of the other kids in the school yard.

 

So as we left Singapore, he spoke perfect English with a typical Singlish accent. But there is a difference between accents and just terrible language skills. 

 

Thats what a lot of people in Thailand fail to recognize, it's not accent, it's just you can't speak the language!

 

When I speak Mandarin, Lao or Thai, everyone knows I'm not a native, but at least I'm speaking the right language!

Edited May 25, 2020 by GinBoy2

[GinBoy2]

My wife just reminded me pf this one.

 

In one of his English essays he'd used the word 'stingy'. It was corrected as 'dipsharee'. Tell me what language that it, because it certainly isn't in any version of English I know

[Isaan Alan]

On 5/19/2020 at 4:20 PM, EricTh said:

 

Many people fail to understand that Thai people are learning English as a second language and NOT first language.

 

It's perfectly normal not to speak perfect English as long as people can understand them.

 

I've known many foreigners who still can't speak perfect Thai after many years of studying Thai.

 

 

 

Think about that. You want to speak Chinese so you learn from someone who doesn't speak standard Chinese? In Australian high school I learn both German and French from Australian teachers who spoke correctly. A native speaker is better but a Thai who speaks standard English is fine. This woman speaks "baby English" bordering on pidgin English.

[teatime101]

On 5/24/2020 at 9:18 PM, KhaoYai said:

Teachers should not only teach the international language - British English, they should also speak without an accent.

And this is what it boils down to. One group thinking they represent some kind of standard that everybody else should follow. There's nothing special about the dialect of English you prefer.

 

The idea that we should all speak one language goes back to the Old Testament. There was an attempt to create a brand new international language - Esperanto. It was a miserable failure.

 

Many Thai schools can't afford native English speakers. For most Thais, having a rudimentary grasp of English is sufficient.

 

Grammar and pronunciation are not as important as many people think. Yoda used incorrect grammar - "Learn you must", but it's perfectly understandable. Poetry and song lyrics are full of bad grammar, and it's richer for it, on balance (putting my own personal bias aside, I see some real garbage on YouTube, especially coming from the US - no melody, no rhythm, just a lot of swagger and foul mouthed rants). 

 

Enforcing universal spelling and grammar on everybody is certainly convenient, but it makes us all poorer in the long term.

 

The complaints here are not so much about effectiveness of communication, but about 'standards' and style. Every time I go shopping (local markets, small shops), etc, I deal with Thais patiently and politely trying to understand what I want. Their English is very poor, but it's still a lot better than my Thai.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by teatime101

[teatime101]