1 minute ago, Saint Nick said:

I gather you believe the numbers, the Thai- government publishes?

Would you like to buy a bridge?

And by the way: what a nice chap you are!

Thank you, I am a nice chap, I have family, friends and relatives in Thailand and I have missed my spring visit, I am not joining the clamour to return because my consideration extends beyond my own personal needs - sell your bridge to those who might use it as a back door entry to Thailand

 

21 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

So you are saying Thailand is not civilised?

 

This is exactly why it is so difficult to get PR and Thai citizenship, to keep types like you at arm's length.

I wouldn't say, Thailand is not civilised!

Some people are, though!

And since I am just back from a posting holiday, after telling some nice fella, what I think about his train of thoughts, I will not point to specific people here!

21 hours ago, Emdog said:

Do nothing? I/we spend money which stimulates economy. Money brought in from abroad. We were the ones that kept businesses open during the low season.

I gladly help support wife's family (they are all hard working, but pay here for them is minimal). I don't "demand everything": if I did, there would be more Mexican restaurants!

I would like to volunteer teach for free (I was a teacher in USA for most of my adult life), but the hurdles just too much & I imagine somehow school head would find a way to have my job funded and then pocket all the cash.

So before accusing us of "either joking or completely deluded" perhaps a bit more thought on your part would be in order.

Oh, and we do pay taxes, the wonderfully regressive VAT

You are barking up the wrong tree, mate!

19 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Wake me up when that starts happening here.  If they wanted to do that, they would have blocked the infected Chinese coming in, from the start. 

 

Then, when the shutdown period started, they would have quickly dispersed the 5K/mo (more better) to keep working-Thais in Bangkok in their apartments (since their paychecks were gone), and NOT allowed them to pile into buses and trains, to spread the virus all over the country.   Remember the scenes at Mo Chit?

 

Remember, this is before we knew the virus was not as deadly as first forecast.  If it had been, the bodies would have been piling up all over the country, due to that move.

 

"A month away" - I hope that's all it is.

 

Nothing "virtual" about it - just a different form.  And the purpose of those workers - allowed in on L-Visas - is to avoid the Rich here having to pay Thais a decent wage.  They have to travel 1/2 way around the world, to compete with Bangladesis, for the Same Jobs those from Cambodia and Myanmar do here.

 

Like I said, above, no consideration what so ever for the well-being of average Thai people.

I think, I am in love! ????

18 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

Deleted ny myself!

Just not worth the trouble!

39 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Thank you, I am a nice chap, I have family, friends and relatives in Thailand and I have missed my spring visit, I am not joining the clamour to return because my consideration extends beyond my own personal needs - sell your bridge to those who might use it as a back door entry to Thailand

 

...and who ws talking to you?

On 5/24/2020 at 1:09 PM, Captain Monday said:

It is a backwards nationalistic policy that is  medically unsound from an epidemiology perspective.

It is a backwards racist policy.............

Guys...... as at 3pm (GMT) today we are talking about at total of 3042 infections and 57 deaths in over 4 months. I doubt there is any other country that would still have its borders closed with figures like that.

3 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Guys...... as at 3pm (GMT) today we are talking about at total of 3042 infections and 57 deaths in over 4 months. I doubt there is any other country that would still have its borders closed with figures like that.

Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam?

19 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Guys...... as at 3pm (GMT) today we are talking about at total of 3042 infections and 57 deaths in over 4 months. I doubt there is any other country that would still have its borders closed with figures like that.

Australia.

Inflammatory posts reported and removed.   Continue and face a suspension.

 

Of course Foreigners with ties in Thailand should be permitted to return.

Not just those with families, but those with property, long term rents etc - those who call Thailand home, those with existing Visas etc

 

An additional choice was missing from the poll.

I would want to return - take a Covid-19 test in the UK before travelling.

Take another Coivd-19 test in Thailand, and quarantine at a hospital facility while awaiting the test results.

If the test is clear there is no reason we can't go to our families.

 

If there comes a time were we can have an instant Covid-19 test (i.e. <2 hrs for results) I don't see why these tests cannot be carried out at the Airport, completely omitting the requirement for quarantine of negative case.

 

 

 

 

 

The lock-down objectives of not seeing the health services over loaded with critical Covid-19 cases have been met.

 

With numbers so low continued lock-down does not make much sense particularly when regarding further damage to the economy.

 

Imagine a Vaccine which is 99% effective...  Would lock down be released then?

Would you / we be happy taking a vaccine which offers 99% effective protection from severe Covid-19 complications.

As it stands, in aggregate we are already 80% protected (no symptoms) and 99% effective from death (latest data presents 1% CFR and dropping as more and more asymptomatic people are tested which offsets the stats from only people showing positive symptoms being tested for Covid-19).

 

Note: the Seasonal Influenza Vaccine is 40-60% effective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

22 hours ago, 473geo said:

I've just read 190 posts on the thread about introduction of 'business class' quarantine

 

So where were all the posts praising the Thai government for expanding options, speeding up the entry flow, from the desperate man split from their families  - well there were 3 possibly 4 who made positive comments out of 190 posts

 

The other comments ranged from extortion to profiteering, value for money to cost, discrimination to class distinction, suggesting alternatives, testing, quarantine at home....and so it went on.......anything really that would excuse quarantine controlled by the government - go have read!!

 

If we can take a Covid-19 test upon arrival and confirm a negative result - is there a need for quarantine at all?

 

This also brings into question how accurate are the Covid-19 test. If they are only 70% accurate (example) then that's clearly not good enough.

 

From the other thread in which we exchanged opinions I know, 473geo, that you are against anyone entering Thailand as exposing your family to 'any risk' of exposure to Covid-19 is already too much risk, whereas other risks such as driving etc are already known and evaluated; i.e. the Covid-19 exposure is as yet still an un-modeled and uncertain risk.

 

With this in mind I am still wondering when it is acceptable to open Thailand up? what would be the case load cut off in other countries to permit entry? This disease is with us, just like Influenza, it will not go away.

A vaccine may be more than 1.5 years away, even then, its effectiveness may not be 100% (the seasonal influenza vaccine is only 40-60% effective).

 

Original objectives of lock down: Not to overwhelm the health services. This has been met.

New Objectives: To eradicate the illness through lock-down? which will not happen.

New Objectives: Lock down until a Vaccine is ready? it may only be 50% effective.

 

Thus: with a Covid-19 CFR (latest stats) means 1 in 100 die. Still atrocious numbers - but that's because all deaths are tested for Covid-19 - the stats show those dead with Covid-19 in their system, not those who died as a direct result of complications due to Covid-19. The same deaths could have occurred from a Cold or Flu.

As more and more people are being tested, the numbers of asymptomatic cases is increases reducing the CFR, estimates are that Covid-19 has a CFR of close to 0.2% and could be closer to Influenza at <0.1%.

 

Thus: Potentially waiting so long for a vaccine which is potentially 50% effective against a virus which is close to as dangerous as something we've been living with for a long time already may seem foolish.

 

Of course - the stats are yet to prove this. But whatever the stats are, they are already significantly less than those initially modeled. The reasons for the initial lock down were sound, now we know more the risks are significantly less (yes, they still exist, but so to so many risks - as we previously discussed).

 

 

IMO - A Covid-19 Certificate (within 3 days) and taking another Covid-19 test at the Airport is the ideal solution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Guys...... as at 3pm (GMT) today we are talking about at total of 3042 infections and 57 deaths in over 4 months. I doubt there is any other country that would still have its borders closed with figures like that.

Taiwan, Hong Kong,  Macao

New Zealand

Slovakia

Maldives, Sri Lanka

Costa Rica

 

 

It's the successful countries, the ones that completely (Macao, Taiwan) or almost completely got rid of the virus - they don't like the virus.

 

On 5/24/2020 at 1:57 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Anyone that left in February, March or April knew there was a risk that they wouldn't be able to travel or get back into Thailand. If they didn't, they are either lying or an idiot.

Those who left in April may be aware of upcoming risks by looking at their home lands devasted by desease and plagues. But people in February and March defintely did not know the scale of this China virus on wreacking the World economy.

32 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

If we can take a Covid-19 test upon arrival and confirm a negative result - is there a need for quarantine at all?

 

This also brings into question how accurate are the Covid-19 test. If they are only 70% accurate (example) then that's clearly not good enough.

 

From the other thread in which we exchanged opinions I know, 473geo, that you are against anyone entering Thailand as exposing your family to 'any risk' of exposure to Covid-19 is already too much risk, whereas other risks such as driving etc are already known and evaluated; i.e. the Covid-19 exposure is as yet still an un-modeled and uncertain risk.

 

With this in mind I am still wondering when it is acceptable to open Thailand up? what would be the case load cut off in other countries to permit entry? This disease is with us, just like Influenza, it will not go away.

A vaccine may be more than 1.5 years away, even then, its effectiveness may not be 100% (the seasonal influenza vaccine is only 40-60% effective).

 

Original objectives of lock down: Not to overwhelm the health services. This has been met.

New Objectives: To eradicate the illness through lock-down? which will not happen.

New Objectives: Lock down until a Vaccine is ready? it may only be 50% effective.

 

Thus: with a Covid-19 CFR (latest stats) means 1 in 100 die. Still atrocious numbers - but that's because all deaths are tested for Covid-19 - the stats show those dead with Covid-19 in their system, not those who died as a direct result of complications due to Covid-19. The same deaths could have occurred from a Cold or Flu.

As more and more people are being tested, the numbers of asymptomatic cases is increases reducing the CFR, estimates are that Covid-19 has a CFR of close to 0.2% and could be closer to Influenza at <0.1%.

 

Thus: Potentially waiting so long for a vaccine which is potentially 50% effective against a virus which is close to as dangerous as something we've been living with for a long time already may seem foolish.

 

Of course - the stats are yet to prove this. But whatever the stats are, they are already significantly less than those initially modeled. The reasons for the initial lock down were sound, now we know more the risks are significantly less (yes, they still exist, but so to so many risks - as we previously discussed).

 

 

IMO - A Covid-19 Certificate (within 3 days) and taking another Covid-19 test at the Airport is the ideal solution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You make valid points Richard, but I note the 'if' there is a test

My representations are based on the understanding that under the current circumstances, people feel they should be allowed in.

Progress is being made, countries are beginning to open up, as you rightly say test results are said to be more accurate, improving, I call for patience, a little understanding, my children in Thailand are not yet in school they cannot mix easily with their friends, they don't enjoy home learning, but they are putting up with life the way it is.

Why the impatience from people 'outside the country? any country accepting visitors from another country currently experiencing circa 100 deaths a day is currently taking unnecessary risk

I fully understand Thailand will open up, first step will be internal release of controls, later international flights will become available perhaps from low risk countries, perhaps still with quarantine, this will be a steady calculated process, and I will be happy for all us guys outside when we can see our families again, truth is a marriage certificate, a work permit, does not lessen the potential risk brought by admission. What actually does is origination in a low risk country, and that isn't going to please some of the guys outside Thailand either!!

1 hour ago, Mulambana said:

Those who left in April may be aware of upcoming risks by looking at their home lands devasted by desease and plagues. But people in February and March defintely did not know the scale of this China virus on wreacking the World economy.

2020,the year when the world committed suicide over a damn flu

There are five groups of foreigners that can still enter, if you have a work permit you can still get in.

 

Loads of hoops to jump through though.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2020/05/25/new-normal-access-to-thailand-even-after-flights-resume-if-virus-persists/

 

????

8 hours ago, Mulambana said:

Those who left in April may be aware of upcoming risks by looking at their home lands devasted by desease and plagues. But people in February and March defintely did not know the scale of this China virus on wreacking the World economy.

The Thai Centre of Disease Control had risk warnings on the website since February, and made COVID-19 a Dangerous Communicable Disease on 1st March 2020 with recommendations not to travel to affected areas with local transmission. 

The further development of quick tests will probably be the key to future world travel.
The additional costs of 30-40 euros per test are added to the ticket price.
Before checking in - into a test room. No fever, negative test then release to flight.
As long as the sensitivity or accuracy of the tests is not yet high enough, a quarantine can be organized at the destination. A PCR test could then be carried out there. The quarantine does not have to be 14 days long, but only until the test results are available. The further development of Quick Tests would not only be good for travel (flight, ship, bus, train) but also for all medical personnel before starting work. 

From https://healthcare-in-europe.com  :
The SARS-CoV-2 rapid test is an optimal and inexpensive supplement that supports doctors and medical staff in their daily work. It shows safely, reliably and within a very short time whether affected persons have already formed detectable antibodies and are suffering from COVID-19 or not, without a laboratory and extensive investigations. Another advantage is seen in the quarantine scheme. Because despite cured corona disease, virus fragments can still be detected in the nasopharynx, so that the standard PCR test is positive. The rapid test has a major advantage here, since antibodies in the acute phase (IgM) usually no longer occur in the blood after an infection has passed, but only immunoglobulin-G antibodies in the late or post-disease phase. In plain language, this means that the rapid test can show whether those affected have survived the disease or are still contagious.

[Deleted]

I am missing a fourth poll choice:

 

• Should be allowed back to their family but they have to stay in a 14-21 day quarantine at their home.