Felling of British slave trader statue heats up simmering debate

[talahtnut]

The entire UK establishment should be

chucked into the Thames, they have

enslaved us all.

Slavery never ceased.

Edited June 9, 2020 by talahtnut
addition

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Almost every US president for the first 100 years was a slave owner from Washington to Grant, even Lincoln earned money in court helping slave owners get their 'property' back. He is on record as saying if he could have preserved the union without freeing any slaves he would have, he's a hero as is Washington.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_who_owned_slaves

We’re not talking about the USA here, but I’d be happy to see the pulling down if statues of any and all who were involved in slavery. 

[ravip]

Edward Colston (2 November 1636 – 11 October 1721) was an English merchant, slave trader, Tory Member of Parliament, and philanthropist. Born in Bristol to a family of merchants that had lived in the city since the 1340s, he became a merchant, initially trading in wine, fruits and cloth, mainly in Spain, Portugal and other European ports. In 1680, he became heavily involved in the slave trade through his membership of the Royal African Company, which held a monopoly of the British trade in African slaves. He became Deputy Governor, the highest office of the company, in 1689. It is uncertain exactly how much of his wealth stemmed from the slave trade.

 

A statue for a slave trader? - Brilliant!

[simple1]

1 hour ago, norfolkandchance said:

God bless America.

Is there video / proof of BLM protesters activity? Just as likely defaced by the far right as they have been involved with disinformation attacking BLM

[wombat]

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

the community was navigating complex issues that had no binary solutions.

fmd...the new get out of jail free card...pmsl

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, Silent Number said:

It seems his actions beyond the slaver identity earned him the recognition by way of the statue. His contributions may have been his realisation of mistakes made.No it doesn’t make it right.Before all you politically correct, green voting ,Vegans  jump on this post.Will mob rule and wilful destruction of property if such property offends you make it go away?

Yeah, the man was a real saint. Who said the point was to make his evil actions go away? The point is not to make heroes out of those who profited from human misery. The slave trade is a truly despicable episode from the uk’s past (not the only one of course) and those involved should be reviled. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[DefaultName]

I think it's great; hide all the evidence of the slave trade.  Then, when people forget about the horrors, it can be started up again.

 

Yes, this is a joke, mostly.  What's the phrase; Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it?

[Andrew65]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Yeah, the man was a real saint. Who  said the point was to make his evil actions go away? The point is not to make heroes out of those who profited from human misery. The slave trade is a truly despicable episode from the uk’s past (not the only one of course) and those involved should be reviled. 

By the same standard should we remove statues or pictures of Henry VIII? Some of the things he did would be reviled by today's standards.

Also, George Washington was a slave owner, what's to be done about that?

[George Aylesham]

15 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Doing what the city council should have done years ago.

 

The city had said for years they were going to put it in a museum but did bu**er all.

[JonnyF]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Yeah, the man was a real saint. Who said the point was to make his evil actions go away? The point is not to make heroes out of those who profited from human misery. The slave trade is a truly despicable episode from the uk’s past (not the only one of course) and those involved should be reviled. 

Whether the statue remained or was removed was not a decision for the baying mob, that is the point. Funny how the leftists always defend violent, anti-social behaviour when it's them doing it, but are the first to decry it if their opponents do it. Hypocrites to their very core.

 

Will you condemn the mob's irresponsible disregard of social distancing rules, putting the lives of many innocent members of the public and health workers at risk just so they could virtue signal?

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

By the same standard should we remove statues or pictures of Henry VIII? Some of the things he did would be reviled by today's standards.

Also, George Washington was a slave owner, what's to be done about that?

Personally, for me, I don't think they really equate to the same, but I see why them being lauded upsets you.

 

If you wish to see them taken down, campaign for such.

 

Fine by me.

[bannork]

25 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

By the same standard should we remove statues or pictures of Henry VIII? Some of the things he did would be reviled by today's standards.

Also, George Washington was a slave owner, what's to be done about that?

Like narcotics, possession is not regarded as serious as trafficking. George may get off with a caution.

[BobBKK]

30 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Yeah, the man was a real saint. Who said the point was to make his evil actions go away? The point is not to make heroes out of those who profited from human misery. The slave trade is a truly despicable episode from the uk’s past (not the only one of course) and those involved should be reviled. 

Many of them were black. Black traders but you never hear about that. Everything was different back then and, thank God, we have evolved but we cannot wipe out the past using our modern judgements. I dislike all this 'cleansing the past' obsession. Recognize it, disagree with it, learn from it and move on. 

[Bluespunk]

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Whether the statue remained or was removed was not a decision for the baying mob, that is the point. Funny how the leftists always defend violent, anti-social behaviour when it's them doing it, but are the first to decry it if their opponents do it. Hypocrites to their very core.

 

Will you condemn the mob's irresponsible disregard of social distancing rules, putting the lives of many innocent members of the public and health workers at risk just so they could virtue signal?

Not the same really.

 

Social distancing is a necessity caused by something beyond our control.

 

Removing a statue that wasn't necessary for public safety and was something that should have been done a long time ago is within our control.

 

Would I have pulled it down? No not really.

 

Do I understand why others did? Absolutely I do.

[BobBKK]

Just now, bannork said:

Like narcotics, possession is not regarded as serious as trafficking. George may get off with a caution.

If George or Benjamin did not buy the slaves they would not be trafficked.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, BobBKK said:

Many of them were black. Black traders but you never hear about that. Everything was different back then and, thank God, we have evolved but we cannot wipe out the past using our modern judgements. I dislike all this 'cleansing the past' obsession. Recognize it, disagree with it, learn from it and move on. 

I judge all involved in the slave trade as scum.

 

None should be lauded for the evil they did.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Not the same really.

 

Social distancing is a necessity caused by something beyond our control.

 

Removing a statue that wasn't necessary for public safety and was something that should have been done a long time ago is within our control.

 

Would I have pulled it down? No not really.

 

Do I understand why others did? Absolutely I do.

But it's the small minority deciding for the silent majority isn't it? who are THEY to make those decisions?  have a vote, make it a platform at the next local election.

[Andrew65]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

Like narcotics, possession is not regarded as serious as trafficking. George may get off with a caution.

Funny you say that. Should the people involved in the trafficking of opium in the 1800's be treated similarly, Hong Kong/China etc.

Up until the 20th century heroin/opium was legal in many places. Should these people now be reviled as slavers now are?

[rvaviator]

3 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Sorry but disagree. Making heroes out of slavers is shameful. 

Well I think we have to agree to disagree on this one then ... ???? 

 

Please note that I did not say we should make a hero out of him (I have little time for heroes as I struggle with that concept. But that is a different discussion)

 

We should respect our past - and if anything - his monument should make us reflect on what happened then which was part of the foundation that build the UK. By remembering the past we can build a better future by trying not to repeat errors of the past.

 

 

[BobBKK]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

I judge all involved in the slave trade as scum.

 

None should be lauded for the evil they did.

I don't disagree but they highlight only whites. Isn't that racist?  most of the slaves were captured by Blacks who had a huge involvement in the trade but we never hear about that do we?

[rvaviator]

Just now, BobBKK said:

I don't disagree but they highlight only whites. Isn't that racist?  most of the slaves were captured by Blacks who had a huge involvement in the trade but we never hear about that do we?

and Arabs ????

[bannork]

7 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

If George or Benjamin did not buy the slaves they would not be trafficked.

So a drug user should be charged for encouraging the trade as well as for possession?

[Dap]

14 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No toss it it the drink, like the bodies of slaves who died on board ships taking them across the Atlantic.

Indeed!

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

But it's the small minority deciding for the silent majority isn't it? who are THEY to make those decisions?  have a vote, make it a platform at the next local election.

As far as I'm concerned, because of the evil this man did, his memory should not be celebrated

[BobBKK]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

As far as I'm concerned, because of the evil this man did, his memory should not be celebrated

As far as I know his donation of millions is being celebrated not that I have a real clue as to who he is but, generally, I am against mob rule.

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

Well I think we have to agree to disagree on this one then ... ???? 

 

Please note that I did not say we should make a hero out of him (I have little time for heroes as I struggle with that concept. But that is a different discussion)

 

We should respect our past - and if anything - his monument should make us reflect on what happened then which was part of the foundation that build the UK. By remembering the past we can build a better future by trying not to repeat errors of the past.

 

 

Quite happy to disagree on this one, it happens.

 

I think putting up statues of those involved in the slave trade is celebrating those involved rather then remembering the vileness of their trade.

 

But, that's just me.

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

So a drug user should be charged for encouraging the trade as well as for possession?

Same for pedophilia?  you don't think the evil of the men who do this encourages those that supply?   really?

[Black arab]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

I would have left the statue up, but had a televised event where everyone was included and put up a huge permanent sign next to it explaining the history of the man.....including highlighting his role in the salve trade. 

A new plaque was dicussed at council meetings in Bristol to be fiited to the statue including the amont if slaves transported 84000 and that including 9000 children who died on route.

The decision was not upheld by the council Tory coucillors supported by the Merchant Venturers voted it down. This was not so long ago the problem of colstons statue and naming if buildings and roads in brustol has been ongoing for a number of years.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

As far as I know his donation of millions is being celebrated not that I have a real clue as to who he is but, generally, I am against mob rule.

It still celebrates a man who profited from a trade that is beyond any form of justification or redemption. Such people should not have statues errected in their memory.

 

I'm not a fan of mob rule either, but I do understand why they acted this way.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[samran]

15 hours ago, vogie said:

Please don't you jump to conclusions that Boris is my hero

Funny, I’ve always had you pinned as a JRM fan. His tone deafness is enough to make anyone swoon.