Ban 'racist Black Pete' Jesse Jackson writes Dutch PM Rutte

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

When the Americans are going to abolish : 

a) old fat man, who promotes obesity, holds little dwarfs at the North Pole as slaves to make toys, and forces reindeer in front of a sledge into the cold winter air around 25 Dec.?

b) awake a ground hogg out of its winter sleep to "forecast" the coming spring and summer ?

As soon as THAT happens, we Dutch will abolish an over 2000 years old story, transformed as so many old Germanic festivals into Christian coloured ones....

 

As many should know, many pagan festivals are transformed into Christian coloured ones.

Mid winter became Christmas, mid Summer Pentecost, Spring became Eastern even coupled to the appearance of the morning star, the planet named after the goddess Freya or Venus, fire crackers, noise, etc to chase the bad spirits away to step over into the new year became our Old & New, and.. Wodan/Odin ( also the god of the poets and story tellers) on his white horse Sleipnir galloping through the sky, accompanied by his to B L A C K ravens Huginn en Muninn, Who brought him news from the humans worth to pay a visit.

This all changed to a Christian bishop from (nowadays Turkish) Myra, accompanied by two servants ( later: former slaves, and as in the East Mediterranean, coming via the Muslim slave routes), riding on his white horse over the roofs, bring gifts to the good and punishment to the bad children. Elder persons make an ironic story in rhyme about good & wrongdoing of the target person, who receives their gift, to be read by that person with all others present to laugh ( and NEVER to hurt ) 

 

Racism of even excluding children out of these parties for children: I was 11 years Black Peter, and the opposite happened: a little school with 12-16 pupils,. but for Sinterklaas.. we had to hire a big place, as we got in 100-150 children from everywhere... the same village, parents/friends / family who visited that little school, whatever. Gift in the cart with name on, story in the Big Book of Sinterklaas, and... a voluntary contribution to pay all costs was very welcome.

Only in some cities, BLACK Peter has changed under pressure of rioters here, like The Ashanti origin Rapper Akwasi ... who said during the demonstration in Amsterdam to "kick any Black Peter in his face". 

https://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2020/06/volgende-agressieve-haatrapper-meldt-zich-ronnie-flex-als-ik-een-zwarte-piet-zie-trap-ik-in-zijn-gezicht/

 

As usual, Americans do not have even the beginning of the faintest knowledge about attitudes and ways of life in other areas of the world. So.. start first to stop your own racism before you even THINK in other countries exist the same. 

Bye-the-way: any idea, where Netherlands is situated ? Maybe a part of Russia ? Ask "The Donald". 

 

 

 

Netherlands? 

Isn't that where the naughty bits are? 

[Sujo]

I am all for what black people are fighting for. There is an ingrained racism.

 

But jackson should just shut up. He is being stupid.

 

 

[matta]

Quote

Netherlands? 

Isn't that where the naughty bits are? 

It's the country next to Trumps " Hell hole"

2020 the beginning of paranoia " the new normal "

 

[ericthai]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Jesse Jackson is right about this but change is going to have to come from the Dutch themselves. 

I agree with you that Jesse is correct, however I dont get where he has the right to tell any other country they are wrong!

[Mayhem11]

The closet racists and their ill defined attacks are out and about. Chill.

[puipuitom]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Netherlands? 

Isn't that where the naughty bits are? 

Correct. Only naughty. In other countries they shoot-to-kill young coloured men for the slightest reason, like jogging.

[puipuitom]

14 hours ago, curious297 said:

England had the Black & White Minstrels show starting in 1958 before being cancelled 20 years later. Even then, staff at the BBC showed their distaste for the show as it depicted the worst stereotype of a black man by white people dressed as blacks.  Today is considered offensive and even racist.  The point of concern was no black person looked, talked or spoke like the white actors portrayed. I never saw a black man with such big white lips, exaggerated large eyes, and dressed like...

 

I am old enough to remember watching Black & White Minstrels show in the UK in the 70's. I was confused why these "blackmen" looked, dressed and sounded wrong until my parents explained it to me. Even then as a young, innocent 6 year old, I knew something was not quite right. In my later years, white kids would do their own impressions of the Minstrels which could be considered even more condescending. As you know, children have no bounds when it comes to taking the <deleted>.

 

Here is a video showing the Black & White Minstrels show to teenagers today. Watch to hear their comments and see their reactions.

Some years later, I moved to Amsterdam. It was my first ever Christmas spent in the Netherlands. Whilst shopping, I come across Black Pete actors collecting money in the streets. My first reaction was surprise and then that same feeling I had as a boy watching the Black & White Minstrels came flooding back. I didn't know or care to know the story of black Pete, I just saw white people dressed up as black people, with their nappy hair,  big red lips and dressed in a way no black person would be seen dead wearing. My dutch friends tried to explain to me the story yet somehow, the words had no foundation to what my eyes were seeing. 

 

"They are Santas helpers" they said in a sheepish manner especially looking at my confused expression. "OK" I said, "So Where does Santa get these helpers from, as I don't know any black people living in the North Pole?". The situation got awkward very quickly.

 

I recalled what I had learned about slavery and The Netherlands heavy involvement (The Netherlands was one of the last countries to abolish slavery in 1863.) What I was looking at just felt wrong and made me feel very uncomfortable. Keep in mind, I had no idea or never heard about story of Black Pete. I just saw what I saw, white people depicting their misconstrued idealistic view of Black people.

"England had the Black & White Minstrels show starting in 1958" ... so a 100 years later copy of Black Peter, with as biggest difference: The Minstrels were to entertain grown-ups, the Dutch Black Peter for the children...without any dance and non-Sint&Piet songs.

 

Black Peter collecting money ?  For Sinterklaas as well as Black Peter, money is NEVER an issue. Maybe for the organisers, but NOT for these two fairy figures. I call this a lie.

 

"So Where does Santa get these helpers from, as I don't know any black people living in the North Pole?".  Every Dutch child knows, Sinterklaas + all Black Peters arrive by (steam) ship from SPAIN. North Pole is the place where that Anglo-Saxon obese guy holds the darfs ( as slaves?) to produce toys. So, also here, you donot know the Sint+Piet story.

 

Slavery... as well as in the predecessor of the Netherlands, the Republic of the United 7 Provinces ( of which Holland was one), slavery did not existed. Same in the rest of North-West Europe since the Middle Ages. Any slave, who set foot on Dutch soil was free. However in May 1776 this was changed to 6 months after arrival. What you probably mean, is slavery in the Dutch colonies: Surinam and the Dutch Antils, which ended 1 July 1863. The Dutch trans-atlantic slave trade was forbidden by royal degree of King William ! from June 1814. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by puipuitom

[puipuitom]

14 hours ago, curious297 said:

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by puipuitom

[LomSak27]

7 hours ago, ericthai said:

I agree with you that Jesse is correct, however I dont get where he has the right to tell any other country they are wrong!

Last I checked, lots of people & countries tell the US, they're wrong. So it should only be a one way street.

 

How Euro. 

[Scott Tracy]

So, a man in the United States is offended by something that happens in the Netherlands. This is globalisation at its best?

 

Perhaps if this guy was still relevant, he would help sort out his own country first.

[Denim]

Disney are also working on a remake.

 

' Snow black and the seven vertically challenged ' 

 

It's a slush movie.

[TKDfella]

It is so easy to get into a political argument over things that happened in the past and particularly slavery. Slavery goes back a long way and originally it didn't matter what colour people were. If some conquering warlord came along and your country was the loser then chances would be that survivors went into slavery. But the pendulum swings and I wonder if this is what we are witnessing today; history shows that those oppressed can rise up and dominate the oppressor and then at some point it changes yet again.

 

[bert bloggs]

I am going to start a petition to get Blackjack banned as a racist card game ,can i rely on you all to back it? sorry i couldnt find anything better to be "offended" by but most have now been taken.

[Damual Travesty]

On 6/19/2020 at 8:10 AM, yuyiinthesky said:

Black Pete racist? Utter nonsense! Chimney soot is not racist, or is it now?

It's interesting. If history shows that black Pete was always meant as chimney soot, and especially if Dutch never even considered it to mean Africans, well then, all of this is about nothing. There is simply no way around that. It would then rank right up there with the idea that Bing Crosby singing "I'm dreaming of a white Christmas" is a racist song. In the 1960's the Black Panthers were painting Christmas trees black. Jay Z sings:

 

"Get ya'll black tees on, all black everything
Black cards, black cars, all black everything"

 

Perhaps black and white is not always meant to apply to race, and attempting to apply it as such indicates a sickness of some sort.

[stevenl]

12 hours ago, puipuitom said:

So, what has that to do with any slavery / racism ? 

Can ANY American imagine, ever, a more-or-less brown tanted man to punish naughty white children ? 

According to the pro black Pete movement black Pete was started as anti-slavery.

[ericthai]

16 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

Last I checked, lots of people & countries tell the US, they're wrong. So it should only be a one way street.

 

How Euro. 

No, I don't believe anybody should be telling anyone how they should live!   

 

PS I'm from the USA

Edited June 20, 2020 by ericthai

[torturedsole]

On 6/19/2020 at 1:00 PM, digger70 said:

Remember  Speculaas & Pepernoten  Yum

If my Thai wife and I ever visit Netherlands during November then she always picks up a big bag of speculaas then transports them via the UK to Thailand.  My wife's family love them.  It must be the cinnamon and other spices that they're hooked on.  

[neverere]

On 6/19/2020 at 11:21 AM, robblok said:

Just for those people from other countries who have no real clue about this holiday its for little kids. 

 

We believe that the old guy is really on his horse riding on the roofs with his helpers distributing candy and presents. (positive role). The old guy in the story is forgetful and his helpers often more intelligent. So the white guy is set apart as being not that competent and the black helpers solving the problems. Guess who comes out looking good.

 

Kids love to meet both of them and are happy and adore all of them (how is that a negative thing). As we get older we learn the truth that this is all a made up story and we forget all about it. Just when we get kids we dress up again to make them laugh and happy with this tradition. 

 

There is no link to actual black or white people, its a fictional story based on a saint and his helpers. We don't try to emulate anything just have a feel good story for the kids every year something happens and the Saint is usually the one forgetting things while the black helpers safe the day. The kids are waiting each night to see more of the story on the TV. 

 

I get racism but sometimes people get offended by nothing. I am usually all against racism but then I am talking about true stuff like people with non Dutch names getting not invited to internships and that kind of bad stuff. If you want to adres racism go for real issues like that. Those are things that are real and should be worked on. 

 Traditionally, Zwarte Piet is black because he is a Moor from Spain.

[nong38]

Well I dont know about you but I have worked with and have many friends from many nations and an assortment of colors, it what they say or do that determines whether they are my friends or not. People these days get offended very quickly and I am begining to get offended by all this BLM stuff myself, yes I "feel" offended, everyone "feels" now have you noticed that? What we seeing is little by little the chipping away of the freedoms we used to have and speech is the first, comment on is another. I notice in the media that anything to do with race or muslims are "comments unavailable"! But anyone who has the misfortune to be born "white" through no fault of their own is never the victim of racism, its does not apply to white people, how on earth have we arrived at this position? Black Lives Matter, so do White ones as well, all lives matter by highlighting these situation it just causes a division rather than a cohesive society. You can bring in all the laws you want its society that has to decide to adhere to them and its society over time that will find the right way. It may take a while it usually does but all these easily offended people are not helping and when some say that attitudes have changed, speak for yourself not for me, I still consider myself a free man although not as free as I was once thanks to Political Correctness, Health and Safety, Racism and the Offended Minority.

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Well I dont know about you but I have worked with and have many friends from many nations and an assortment of colors, it what they say or do that determines whether they are my friends or not. People these days get offended very quickly and I am begining to get offended by all this BLM stuff myself, yes I "feel" offended, everyone "feels" now have you noticed that? What we seeing is little by little the chipping away of the freedoms we used to have and speech is the first, comment on is another. I notice in the media that anything to do with race or muslims are "comments unavailable"! But anyone who has the misfortune to be born "white" through no fault of their own is never the victim of racism, its does not apply to white people, how on earth have we arrived at this position? Black Lives Matter, so do White ones as well, all lives matter by highlighting these situation it just causes a division rather than a cohesive society. You can bring in all the laws you want its society that has to decide to adhere to them and its society over time that will find the right way. It may take a while it usually does but all these easily offended people are not helping and when some say that attitudes have changed, speak for yourself not for me, I still consider myself a free man although not as free as I was once thanks to Political Correctness, Health and Safety, Racism and the Offended Minority.

I am the opposite i think we came a long way, movies are more gender and race diverse. Finally we are seeing more people of color in higher positions. So those things IMHO are positive.

 

I am white too but was not blind to the fact that racism was happening seen it often enough.

 

Now maybe some people are over sensitive and that can be a problem. I also believe that racism can be against white guys too. Everyone can be racist not just white guys. 

 

I feel as free as ever still happy to be a white male. For those nagging about it would be great if it were possible for them to live as a black male in the US. Would be a good experience for them provided they survive the day and not get shot by a cop ????

 

 

[robblok]

4 hours ago, neverere said:

 Traditionally, Zwarte Piet is black because he is a Moor from Spain.

Sure, but it depicts Moorish Noblemen (not slaves) of way back then. So not really anyone living right now. 

 

[nong38]

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am the opposite i think we came a long way, movies are more gender and race diverse. Finally we are seeing more people of color in higher positions. So those things IMHO are positive.

 

I am white too but was not blind to the fact that racism was happening seen it often enough.

 

Now maybe some people are over sensitive and that can be a problem. I also believe that racism can be against white guys too. Everyone can be racist not just white guys. 

 

I feel as free as ever still happy to be a white male. For those nagging about it would be great if it were possible for them to live as a black male in the US. Would be a good experience for them provided they survive the day and not get shot by a cop ????

 

 

Perhaps to put things in context I should say that IMHO if there is a job up for grabs the best person should get  it regardless of "background" I am not for putting someone who is less capable being shoed in just to tick the right boxes and if that makes things more diverse I dont have a problem with that at all.

I can remember a time when all bus drivers, train drivers, doctors and pilots were all male, now the ladies are in those positions as well its taken time but we have come to accept it as a society, personally I never had a problem with that and consider this. Imagine you laying on a hospital bed in need of life saving help, all prejudices suddenly disappear you accept the doctor and nurse that turns up or maybe you die, concentrates the mind somewhat.

[simon43]

I also grew up in the times of the Black and White Minstrel Show in the UK.  I watched it and found nothing wrong with it at all, albeit a rather boring program for my young age.  Now at 61 years old, I still see nothing wrong with that program, nor the Gollywog on jam jars, nor white-skinned people dressing up in blackface and dark-skinned people dressing up in white face.

 

I see nothing wrong with the old comedy TV programs in the UK, which made fun of ALL skin colours, class blah blah blah.  The only people who think that these programs are racist are the dimwitted and politically correct snowflakes.

 

I've lived for almost 20 years in Asia, been married to brown-skinned people (and white!).  I'm definitely not racist in any way, as my previous charity endeavours amply demonstrate.  I'm lucky to live in a 'time-bubble' and not to be influenced by activists who see something that doesn't exist.

Edited June 21, 2020 by simon43

[digger70]

11 hours ago, torturedsole said:

If my Thai wife and I ever visit Netherlands during November then she always picks up a big bag of speculaas then transports them via the UK to Thailand.  My wife's family love them.  It must be the cinnamon and other spices that they're hooked on.  

Great. Google  Speculaas  the recipies are on the net ,Very easy to make them.  ????

[robblok]

27 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Perhaps to put things in context I should say that IMHO if there is a job up for grabs the best person should get  it regardless of "background" I am not for putting someone who is less capable being shoed in just to tick the right boxes and if that makes things more diverse I dont have a problem with that at all.

I can remember a time when all bus drivers, train drivers, doctors and pilots were all male, now the ladies are in those positions as well its taken time but we have come to accept it as a society, personally I never had a problem with that and consider this. Imagine you laying on a hospital bed in need of life saving help, all prejudices suddenly disappear you accept the doctor and nurse that turns up or maybe you die, concentrates the mind somewhat.

I am certainly not for people in positions because of background that is a recipe for disaster. The best qualified should always get the job. Maybe with equal qualification they can look at "background". But never should they let people who are better qualified lose the chance for those less qualified. 

 

But I seen it happen a lot that others who were as qualified or better qualified lose out to white guys who were more connected. Now that might be ok in a private company. I mean a boss should be free to hire who he wants as its his company (talking about smaller companies not the kind that are so big that they are noted at the stock exchange). 

 

Also for public funded institutions it should just go to the best one and if there is no diversity yet then sure if its 95% white already then if a colored guy and a white guy show up and they are equally qualified i can see that the colored guy should get the job to diversify a bit more. 

[robblok]

19 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I also grew up in the times of the Black and White Minstrel Show in the UK.  I watched it and found nothing wrong with it at all, albeit a rather boring program for my young age.  Now at 61 years old, I still see nothing wrong with that program, nor the Gollywog on jam jars, nor white-skinned people dressing up in blackface and dark-skinned people dressing up in white face.

 

I see nothing wrong with the old comedy TV programs in the UK, which made fun of ALL skin colours, class blah blah blah.  The only people who think that these programs are racist are the dimwitted and politically correct snowflakes.

 

I've lived for almost 20 years in Asia, been married to brown-skinned people (and white!).  I'm definitely not racist in any way, as my previous charity endeavours amply demonstrate.  I'm lucky to live in a 'time-bubble' and not to be influenced by activists who see something that doesn't exist.

Satire should always be allowed however if it just keeps focusing on one group and putting them down then its wrong. Laughed my ass off at a comedy show of an (former) Indian guy who made everyone look foolish. White.. black.. it does not matter.

[bodga]

Ban  Jesse  Jackson peddling his religious  nonsense with zero  evidence, promising eternal  life  in heaven, disgusting.

[bodga]

As were  all  going crazy  now  with this  rubbish, Id  like to  identify as black even though Im white, No Ive changed my mind  I want to identify as a Black Zhe its my right, may as  well go the whole stoopid  hog/tree

[bodga]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

for them to live as a black male in the US

like  obama

[Meat Pie 47]

37 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Great. Google  Speculaas  the recipies are on the net ,Very easy to make them.  ????

in German we call them speculatius but it is the same recipe

https://honestcooking.com/german-spekulatius-cookies-recipe/