The logic of masking

[canthai55]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Absolutely, blatantly false.  Every vaccine approved for use in the west has passed a three phase clinical trials process.  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/distributing/steps-ensure-safety.html

From your own link -

Before vaccines are made available to people in real-world settings, FDA assesses the findings from clinical trials. So far, they have determined that three COVID-19 vaccines meet FDA’s safety and effectiveness standards and have granted those vaccines Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs)

 

As I posted above, and was since bent and twisted to suit.

[canthai55]

From Big Pharma itself -

Clinical trials alone take six to seven years on average to complete.

https://www.antidote.me/blog/how-long-do-clinical-trial-phases-take

 

 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

By October 1945, DDT was available for public sale in the United States. Although it was promoted by government and industry for use as an agricultural and household pesticide, there were also concerns about its use from the beginning.[7]

Conis, Elena (2017). "Beyond Silent Spring: An Alternate History of DDT". Distillations. 2 (4): 16–23. Retrieved March 20, 2018.

Yes, prior to 1970 there were no government restrictions on pesticides that weren't directly sprayed on foods.  There was an absence of science investigating pesticides.  What is your point?

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

From your own link -

Before vaccines are made available to people in real-world settings, FDA assesses the findings from clinical trials. So far, they have determined that three COVID-19 vaccines meet FDA’s safety and effectiveness standards and have granted those vaccines Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs)

 

As I posted above, and was since bent and twisted to suit.

You posted "No vaccine I have been able to find have passed any sort of clinical trial."  As my link showed that was clearly false and dangerous misinformation.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

From Big Pharma itself -

Clinical trials alone take six to seven years on average to complete.

https://www.antidote.me/blog/how-long-do-clinical-trial-phases-take

When faced with a highly contagious pandemic killing millions and crippling the world economy, the drug industry sped things up.  That's a good thing.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, covidiot said:

I know an 89 year old who tested positive, then tested negative one week later without any treatment. 

 

And I am on the same wavelength regarding relying on the immune system, but the vaccines will become a political issue. People who don't get it may have some limitations. Maybe from employers, travel, ... here there was a request to re-open restaurants but only for vaccinated people. 

A death rate for Covid of 1% to 2% means a 98% to 99% survival rate.  A death rate for some vaccines (those with the highest rate of negative side-effects) of 0.0001% means a survival rate of 99.9999%.

 

Getting vaccinated isn't a political statement, it's just a smart by the numbers thing to do.

 

BTW:  Most people who get vaccinated experience nothing worse than a slight run-down feeling for less than 24 hours.  What was your experience with Covid like?

Edited May 5, 2021 by heybruce

[canthai55]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

When faced with a highly contagious pandemic killing millions and crippling the world economy, the drug industry sped things up.  That's a good thing.

So you admit I am right - no vaccine has passed a full clinical trial.

Maybe ... instead of firing from the hip take a little time to read the post, try to figure out what the poster is trying to say.

If still in doubt then ask.

This "You are a *** if you do not agree with me" does nothing to further discussion.

Or is this not a concern ?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

So you admit I am right - no vaccine has passed a full clinical trial.

Maybe ... instead of firing from the hip take a little time to read the post, try to figure out what the poster is trying to say.

If still in doubt then ask.

This "You are a *** if you do not agree with me" does nothing to further discussion.

Or is this not a concern ?

You have the stubborn denial of facts I would expect of an anti-vaxxer.  From the source already provided, which you studiously ignored:

 

"After initial development, vaccines go through three phases of clinical trials to make sure they are safe and effective. For other vaccines routinely used in the United States, the three phases of clinical trials are performed one at a time. During the development of COVID-19 vaccines, these phases have overlapped to speed up the process so the vaccines can be used as quickly as possible to control the pandemic. No trial phases have been skipped."   https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/distributing/steps-ensure-safety.html

Edited May 5, 2021 by heybruce

[canthai55]

I am not an anti-vaxxer.

There are 4 stages of clinical trials - not 3

https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/what-are-clinical-trials-and-studies#four

This from the NIH - in USA

 

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

I am not an anti-vaxxer.

There are 4 stages of clinical trials - not 3

https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/what-are-clinical-trials-and-studies#four

This from the NIH - in USA

 

Once again, you posted: 

""No vaccine I have been able to find have passed any sort of clinical trial."

 

That is very clearly false.  

 

We are in stage 4, which occurs after three clinical trials have been successfully completed and the vaccine is approved.  From your source:

 

"If, after the first three phases, researchers find a drug or other intervention to be safe and effective, the FDA approves it for clinical use and continues to monitor its effects. "

 

"A Phase IV trial for drugs or devices takes place after the FDA approves their use. A device or drug's effectiveness and safety are monitored in large, diverse populations. Sometimes, the side effects of a drug may not become clear until more people have taken it over a longer period of time."

Edited May 5, 2021 by heybruce

[covidiot]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

What was your experience with Covid like?

who me?

never said i had covid.

[covidiot]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

I am not an anti-vaxxer.

You can be a wait-and-see vaxxer. Don't take it for now if you don't feel comfortable. Your chances of dying from covid are the same as being struck by lightning if you take Vitamin D (joking, sorta). Then later on, if you want to join the rest of society in a restaurant or get laid, you may have no choice but to get the vaccine. Or live underground. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by covidiot

[canthai55]

So Mr. OP - you have been mostly silent for a while.

What is your take on the thread thus far ?

[canthai55]

 

[covidiot]

If you want your paranoia levels to go up, check out mick jagger's ramblings.

"bill gates is in my bloodstream"

 

[covidiot]

16 hours ago, canthai55 said:

From Big Pharma itself -

Clinical trials alone take six to seven years on average to complete.

https://www.antidote.me/blog/how-long-do-clinical-trial-phases-take

Get off scientific journals, media, the internet.

And relax.

 

 

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, covidiot said:

who me?

never said i had covid.

Sorry. What was the experience of the 89 year old with Covid?  Was it better or worse than the minor reactions people who get vaccinated experience?

[covidiot]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Sorry. What was the experience of the 89 year old with Covid?  Was it better or worse than the minor reactions people who get vaccinated experience?

No symptoms. No treatment. Maybe the ol' geezer was tough as nails?

 

There are already some murmurings (not thailand) of reopening restaurants only for vaccinated people. 

People should probably stop having discussions about the safety of the vaccine because in a few months the topic will shift to the inconveniences caused by not having one. 

 

People who are afraid of the vaccine ... are you more afraid of never being able to travel again? 

 

My mental health was degrading due to lockdown, but it's been made worse by joining the forum and talking about covid 24/7.

 

I need someone to rub my temples.

 

Good luck to all.

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by covidiot

[covidiot]

22 hours ago, canthai55 said:

From Big Pharma itself -

Clinical trials alone take six to seven years on average to complete.

https://www.antidote.me/blog/how-long-do-clinical-trial-phases-take

 

 

 

Maybe the vaccine is a tweaked version of the flu vaccine.

Good luck putting together all the pieces of the puzzle.

Elementary, dear Watson. 

 

 

[canthai55]

12 hours ago, covidiot said:

You can be a wait-and-see vaxxer. Don't take it for now if you don't feel comfortable. Your chances of dying from covid are the same as being struck by lightning if you take Vitamin D (joking, sorta). Then later on, if you want to join the rest of society in a restaurant or get laid, you may have no choice but to get the vaccine. Or live underground. 

As the rollout is progressing - ??? - here it looks like I will be doing this anyway.

Gotta tell 'Ya - when the Gov't, accompanied by Big Pharma, comes knocking on my door and says "We are Here to Help You" ...

Raises more Red Flags than Maos birthday in Tienanmen square.

Good point re: getting the vaccine. I can see this happening very easily.

[canthai55]

6 hours ago, covidiot said:

Get off scientific journals, media, the internet.

And relax.

Sound Advice

 

[covidiot]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

when the Gov't, accompanied by Big Pharma, comes knocking on my door and says "We are Here to Help You" ...

Just watched an interview with Fauci. 25 per cent of Americans will not take the vaccine. 

 

Big Pharma, vaccines aside, does help extend people's lives, albeit it's not the ideal way to maintain health. But they do provide a service that people need. 

 

Here's my final comment. This situation is not entirely transparent. Some things don't make sense. Some things seem suspicious. Sometimes the numbers don't add up. Maybe the masking doesn't make sense. The lockdowns. But that doesn't necessarily imply that something nefarious is at play. 

 

 Take care.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by covidiot

[Damrongsak]

15 minutes ago, covidiot said:

... Just watched an interview with Fauci. 25 per cent of Americans will not take the vaccine. Things will get political, in the US anyway. Take care.

Watching the numbers in the U.S. , I sense a slight slowdown in the number of shots this month, at least in my State.  Maybe just a blip or dip.  Yesterday's totals according to the CDC:

 

 

But we're down to 50,000 new cases a day, so life is good, eh?

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Damrongsak

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/5/2021 at 5:45 AM, heybruce said:

There are no credible statistics for the world population regarding Covid 19.  I use statistics from large countries such as the US in which Covid 19 has established a foothold. 

 

The US totals are:

 

Cases:  32 million

Deaths:  574,000 (1.8% of cases, 0.17% of total US population).   https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

Hospitalizations:  5.7 million (https://covidusa.net/

 

Regarding vaccinations:

 

"Over 245 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 03, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,178 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine."   https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

Note that a disproportionate number of those receiving vaccines are senior citizens, who tend to have a higher than average mortality. 

 

Even in the ludicrous worst case assumption that everyone of those who died after vaccination having died from vaccination, it still shows vaccination to be 100 times safer than living in a country with Covid and 1000 times safer than catching Covid.

One should never extrapolate from the US IMO. Reportedly the most obese nation on the planet, and IMO probably the largest user of supermarket derived unhealthy food.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/6/2021 at 7:25 AM, covidiot said:

No symptoms. No treatment. Maybe the ol' geezer was tough as nails?

 

There are already some murmurings (not thailand) of reopening restaurants only for vaccinated people. 

People should probably stop having discussions about the safety of the vaccine because in a few months the topic will shift to the inconveniences caused by not having one. 

 

People who are afraid of the vaccine ... are you more afraid of never being able to travel again? 

 

My mental health was degrading due to lockdown, but it's been made worse by joining the forum and talking about covid 24/7.

 

I need someone to rub my temples.

 

Good luck to all.

 

 

 

I don't get the obsession with eating at expensive restaurants- learn to cook and save money. Probably more healthy as well.

 

 

[Dante99]

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't get the obsession with eating at expensive restaurants- learn to cook and save money. Probably more healthy as well.

 

 

Not all restaurants are expensive.  

I don't get the obsesion with saving money.

[heybruce]

56 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One should never extrapolate from the US IMO. Reportedly the most obese nation on the planet, and IMO probably the largest user of supermarket derived unhealthy food.

You'll find similar numbers in other developed nations where Covid established a foothold and that have reasonably credible statistics. 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, heybruce said:

You'll find similar numbers in other developed nations where Covid established a foothold and that have reasonably credible statistics. 

Australia?

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Australia?

You keep trying to compare island nations with the rest of the world.  Try Europe.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Not all restaurants are expensive.  

I don't get the obsesion with saving money.

All restaurants in western countries are more expensive than cooking oneself. One doesn't pay oneself wages and rent for the kitchen.

We've been told for a year that lockdowns have destroyed economies, ergo we should be thinking of saving money, not spending it.