Majority of Scots support independence from UK - YouGov poll

[tebee]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

I don't agree, Brexit is a democratic decision by the UK, whereas "Scottish independence is based on a non existent historical grievance" 

 Brexit was  based on a non existent historical grievance. So maybe people should have a chance to make a democratic decision on Scottish independence ?

[vogie]

4 hours ago, tebee said:

 Brexit was  based on a non existent historical grievance. So maybe people should have a chance to make a democratic decision on Scottish independence ?

The Scots have had a chance to make a democratic decision, it happened in 2014, they voted overwhelmingly to remain in the UK. And to boot they stated (Salmond and Sturgeon) that it would be a once in a lifetime decision and to the best of my knowledge, they were not talking about the lifetime of a Golden Hamster.

But I find it so amazing that some remainers on here were so vehemently againgst the UK leaving EU, yet they seem to find it more than acceptable for the UK to be partitioned by the SNP, is it childish revenge for not getting the result they wanted on Brexit, don't ask what Brexit can do for you, ask what you can do for Brexit.

 

[cleopatra2]

11 hours ago, evadgib said:

If they look hard enough they'll realise that the 3 devolved Parliaments contravene the 1688 & 1689 BoR and the act of union which Bliar thinks he got away with.

I would have thought the opposite, the Act of Union support a Scottish Devolution instrument to make decisions on issues not converted to Westminster.

For example how could Scottish laws be retained without a means of enacting provisions to make them relevant.

[tebee]

10 hours ago, vogie said:

The Scots have had a chance to make a democratic decision, it happened in 2014, they voted overwhelmingly to remain in the UK. And to boot they stated (Salmond and Sturgeon) that it would be a once in a lifetime decision and to the best of my knowledge, they were not talking about the lifetime of a Golden Hamster.

 

 

We made a democratic decision in  in 1975  to join the EU but we've voted on that again .

[vogie]

24 minutes ago, tebee said:

We made a democratic decision in  in 1975  to join the EU but we've voted on that again .

The EU wasn't even mentioned in 1975, we joined a common market to trade with our neighbouring countries and that was 45 years ago, not to share a common currency and stand to attention to 'Ode to Joy', in another 45 years you can have another vote on whether to rejoin, untill then we must respect the decision of the electorate as do the Scots on separation and partitioning of the UK. The SNP have lied to the majority of Scots who voted to remain.

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

51 minutes ago, vogie said:

The EU wasn't even mentioned in 1975

And Brexit wasn’t even mentioned in 2014. 
 

Quote

, we joined a common market to trade with our neighbouring countries

The Scots decided to remain in a UK that is part of the EU. 
 

Quote

and that was 45 years ago, not to share a common currency and stand to attention to 'Ode to Joy', in another 45 years you can have another vote on whether to rejoin, untill then we must respect the decision of the electorate as do the Scots on separation and partitioning of the UK.

And why would the Scots have to follow your rule regarding when they are allowed to hold a referendum or leave? That’s something they can decide their own. 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And Brexit wasn’t even mentioned in 2014. 
 

The Scots decided to remain in a UK that is part of the EU. 
 

And why would the Scots have to follow your rule regarding when they are allowed to hold a referendum or leave? That’s something they can decide their own. 

 

 

Not my rules, the rules were spoken by Sturgeon and Salmond and were written down in the Edinburgh agreement. The Scots decided to remain, it is only the SNP that has broken their promises.

But I do notice the nearer we get to deliverence day the more the Eumainers are wobbling and coming out with snide nonsense.

[cleopatra2]

26 minutes ago, vogie said:

Not my rules, the rules were spoken by Sturgeon and Salmond and were written down in the Edinburgh agreement. The Scots decided to remain, it is only the SNP that has broken their promises.

But I do notice the nearer we get to deliverence day the more the Eumainers are wobbling and coming out with snide nonsense.

I fail to understand the point you are trying to make.

The Edinburgh Agreement is 8 years old and the referendum 6 years old.

 

The referendum was organised to produce a definite answer to the question. This can only mean that the  vote result in an unequivocal answer to the question asked. It does not mean the result should last forever.

Comments made by various political or non political actors is irrelevant. People and governments are allowed to take a different viewpoint in the future that differ from their past statements.

 

Various independent advocates would argue that the No campaign advocated that a yes vote would mean Scotland leaving the EU. Regardless of its merits it is historical fact and the only democratic way of resolving is to hold another referendum.

 

[nausea]

On 9/1/2020 at 1:23 PM, RuamRudy said:

Here is the thing - when it comes to the future of Scotland, I and the majority of my countrymen rightly see your interests as being significantly below our own in terms of security or anything else. So from a geopolitical perspective, deal with it, as they say. 

 

But don't worry, you will have a clutch of nuclear subs and warheads to protect you. 

Better get started on renovating Hadrian's Wall, I guess. Ha!

[welovesundaysatspace]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

Not my rules, the rules were spoken by Sturgeon and Salmond and were written down in the Edinburgh agreement.

No, the Edinburgh agreement doesn’t stipulate that “in another 45 years you can have another vote” as you claimed. So this seems to be your rule alone. 
 

And why would millions of Scots have to follow the rule of Sturgeon and Salmond anyway?

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

No, the Edinburgh agreement doesn’t stipulate that “in another 45 years you can have another vote” as you claimed. So this seems to be your rule alone. 
 

And why would millions of Scots have to follow the rule of Sturgeon and Salmond anyway?

These are the rules in a prelude to the Scottish referendum taken in 2014, should you wish to ignore it and interpreted in a different context to which it is written that is entirely up to you. I can only give you evidence which you always twist to your liking. Enough of you!

 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

35 minutes ago, vogie said:

These are the rules in a prelude to the Scottish referendum taken in 2014, should you wish to ignore it and interpreted in a different context to which it is written that is entirely up to you.

It’s not up to me. It’s up to the Scottish people. 
 

Quote

 

I can only give you evidence which you always twist to your liking. Enough of you!

 

 

 

Thank you for providing the proof that it doesn’t stipulate that the Scots can have another vote “in another 45 years” as you claimed. Just like I told you. 
 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

It’s not up to me. It’s up to the Scottish people. 
 

Thank you for providing the proof that it doesn’t stipulate that the Scots can have another vote “in another 45 years” as you claimed. Just like I told you. 
 

 

 

Unfortunately Vogie is firmly sticking to the brexiteers playbook - no matter how desperate you appear, just keep repeating your lies regularly and you will eventually convince a few people. 

[Logosone]

Quote

don't ask what Brexit can do for you

Because if you did ask the answer would be "Absolutely nothing".

 

Well, you'd get a new trade agreement from South Korea. To sell products on exactly the same terms as before.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Logosone

[cleopatra2]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

These are the rules in a prelude to the Scottish referendum taken in 2014, should you wish to ignore it and interpreted in a different context to which it is written that is entirely up to you. I can only give you evidence which you always twist to your liking. Enough of you!

 

 

 

Would you acknowledge that the referendum was not conducted in line with the Edinburgh Agreement.

In particular the 3rd bullet point. Commanding the confidence of Parliament etc.

The campaign for No vote made various promises that were not kept. 

How can making promises to obtain a certain result which subsequently are not kept be regarded as legitimate.

I agree with the ex Scottish Consvertave leader Ruth Davidson, Westminster denying a vote is constitutionally undemocratic.

Edited September 2, 2020 by cleopatra2

[Rookiescot]

23 hours ago, vogie said:

The Scots have had a chance to make a democratic decision, it happened in 2014, they voted overwhelmingly to remain in the UK. And to boot they stated (Salmond and Sturgeon) that it would be a once in a lifetime decision and to the best of my knowledge, they were not talking about the lifetime of a Golden Hamster.

But I find it so amazing that some remainers on here were so vehemently againgst the UK leaving EU, yet they seem to find it more than acceptable for the UK to be partitioned by the SNP, is it childish revenge for not getting the result they wanted on Brexit, don't ask what Brexit can do for you, ask what you can do for Brexit.

 

Politicians give out throwaway lines in interviews all the time. Things like "Dead in a ditch" and "Oven ready deal".

Why would you find the position of remainers amazing. It would appear the people of Scotland want to leave the Union in order to rejoin the EU. Which we were taken out of against our will.

 

[kingdong]

On 8/14/2020 at 2:59 AM, Victornoir said:

Time for me to quote RuamRudy's excellent point about polls:

"The chef doesn't have to swallow the whole pot to taste the sauce, a tea spoon is enough."

the aroma of a fart is not an accurate estimation of the contents of a bowel void.

[kingdong]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Politicians give out throwaway lines in interviews all the time. Things like "Dead in a ditch" and "Oven ready deal".

Why would you find the position of remainers amazing. It would appear the people of Scotland want to leave the Union in order to rejoin the EU. Which we were taken out of against our will.

 

perhaps if all these patriotic bravehearts bothered to return to their homeland and vote instead of whingeing about it from halfway round the world the result of the previous vote would be different.

[vogie]

10 hours ago, vogie said:

These are the rules in a prelude to the Scottish referendum taken in 2014, should you wish to ignore it and interpreted in a different context to which it is written that is entirely up to you. I can only give you evidence which you always twist to your liking. Enough of you!

 

 

 

Did you miss the wording where it states that, "and a result that eveyone respects" that basically means whatever the result everyone will respect it, if comprehension is not your strong point maybe you could ask your secretary to help you with the wording before you send her out for the sushi.

[Phulublub]

27 minutes ago, vogie said:

Did you miss the wording where it states that, "and a result that eveyone respects" that basically means whatever the result everyone will respect it, if comprehension is not your strong point maybe you could ask your secretary to help you with the wording before you send her out for the sushi.

Until the Brexit shambles, pretty much everyone in Scotland did respect the result. 

 

Of course there were a few bampots who did not - a bit like Nigel Farage making a career out of not respecting the result of the 1975 referendum.  But that, of couse, "is different".

 

PH

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Until the Brexit shambles, pretty much everyone in Scotland did respect the result. 

 

Of course there were a few bampots who did not - a bit like Nigel Farage making a career out of not respecting the result of the 1975 referendum.  But that, of couse, "is different".

 

PH 

Until the Brexit shambles, pretty much everyone in Scotland did respect the result. 

 

Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP have only one purpose in life and that to rid themselves of the English, from cradle to grave they are told that the English are the cause of all their problems. The SNP is a one horse party and their only purpose in life is separation, you cannot call it independence because what ever powers they have will be immediately transfered to the EU.

 

[Rookiescot]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

Did you miss the wording where it states that, "and a result that eveyone respects" that basically means whatever the result everyone will respect it, if comprehension is not your strong point maybe you could ask your secretary to help you with the wording before you send her out for the sushi.

The result was respected. We didnt leave the UK.

However you were warned during the Brexit referendum that voting leave could result in Scotland leaving the UK. You chose to ignore those warnings.

Now you have to live with the consequences. 

[Rookiescot]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

Until the Brexit shambles, pretty much everyone in Scotland did respect the result. 

 

Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP have only one purpose in life and that to rid themselves of the English, from cradle to grave they are told that the English are the cause of all their problems. The SNP is a one horse party and their only purpose in life is separation, you cannot call it independence because what ever powers they have will be immediately transfered to the EU.

 

The English are not and never have been the problem.

Westminster is the problem.

[RuamRudy]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

Until the Brexit shambles, pretty much everyone in Scotland did respect the result. 

 

Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP have only one purpose in life and that to rid themselves of the English, from cradle to grave they are told that the English are the cause of all their problems. The SNP is a one horse party and their only purpose in life is separation, you cannot call it independence because what ever powers they have will be immediately transfered to the EU.

 

Not only the pursuit of independence, but also making Scotland a better place to live despite being under the not inconsiderable burden of the union. And she has done a very good job of it, as the polls regularly show - she is admired not only across Scotland but across the UK and around the world for her adroitness, her stamina, her humanity and her nuanced ability to do her job. And, of course, not only is her party set to romp home in the 2021 Holyrood elections, poll after poll is showing that support for independence is growing stronger every day as more and more former supporters of the union are coming to the realisation that the UK has been a total disaster for Scotland for the past 300 years. 

[evadgib]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Not only the pursuit of independence, but also making Scotland a better place to live despite being under the not inconsiderable burden of the union. And she has done a very good job of it, as the polls regularly show - she is admired not only across Scotland but across the UK and around the world for her adroitness, her stamina, her humanity and her nuanced ability to do her job. And, of course, not only is her party set to romp home in the 2021 Holyrood elections, poll after poll is showing that support for independence is growing stronger every day as more and more former supporters of the union are coming to the realisation that the UK has been a total disaster for Scotland for the past 300 years. 

Moves are afoot to void the union you so loath, RR. Can you imagine what will become the ol' tail-wagging-the-dog routine if that succeeds?

Edited September 3, 2020 by evadgib

[vogie]

43 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The result was respected. We didnt leave the UK.

However you were warned during the Brexit referendum that voting leave could result in Scotland leaving the UK. You chose to ignore those warnings.

Now you have to live with the consequences. 

I would hazard a guess and suggests that nobody gives a damn about any nationalist, but for the fair minded Scots that voted to remain within the UK you should fell sorry for, but of course nationalists only care about themselves, Mrs Sturgeon et al are only good at one thing and I have to admit that when it comes to partitioning the UK and getting the turkeys to vote for Christmas she stands head and shoulders above the rest.

 

 

 

[vogie]

25 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Not only the pursuit of independence, but also making Scotland a better place to live despite being under the not inconsiderable burden of the union. And she has done a very good job of it, as the polls regularly show - she is admired not only across Scotland but across the UK and around the world for her adroitness, her stamina, her humanity and her nuanced ability to do her job. And, of course, not only is her party set to romp home in the 2021 Holyrood elections, poll after poll is showing that support for independence is growing stronger every day as more and more former supporters of the union are coming to the realisation that the UK has been a total disaster for Scotland for the past 300 years. 

I believe the last european nationalist party did quite well at elections.

 

 

[Phulublub]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

Until the Brexit shambles, pretty much everyone in Scotland did respect the result. 

 

Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP have only one purpose in life and that to rid themselves of the English, from cradle to grave they are told that the English are the cause of all their problems. The SNP is a one horse party and their only purpose in life is separation, you cannot call it independence because what ever powers they have will be immediately transfered to the EU.

 

And you know this how?  For how many years have/did you live in Scotland?  I lived for more than half my life there, and met and still know several Nats, some who campaign for the SNP. Manage to have reasoned and reasonable conversations with most of them despite me being and ardent Unionist.  My view has changed though, largely as a result of Brexit and particularly the nasty, vitriolic, triumphalistxenophobic Little Englander attitude that is becoming ever more prevalent.  Europe does not need you as much as you seem to think they do; neither does Scotland.  If Scotland gains independence I will be applying for a Scotish passport in preference to keeping an rUK one.

 

People like you, who think you know what is best for Sccots and Scotland, are part of the problem.

 

PH

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

And you know this how?  For how many years have/did you live in Scotland?  I lived for more than half my life there, and met and still know several Nats, some who campaign for the SNP. Manage to have reasoned and reasonable conversations with most of them despite me being and ardent Unionist.  My view has changed though, largely as a result of Brexit and particularly the nasty, vitriolic, triumphalistxenophobic Little Englander attitude that is becoming ever more prevalent.  Europe does not need you as much as you seem to think they do; neither does Scotland.  If Scotland gains independence I will be applying for a Scotish passport in preference to keeping an rUK one.

 

People like you, who think you know what is best for Sccots and Scotland, are part of the problem.

 

PH

Ah I see, I need to live in Scotland now to have opinion on the United Kingdom.

Good luck with your new passport, I wouldn't rely on a Scottish pension though, don't say I didn't warn you.

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Ah I see, I need to live in Scotland now to have opinion on the United Kingdom.

Good luck with your new passport, I wouldn't rely on a Scottish pension though, don't say I didn't warn you.

Upon the day of Scottish independence then those who are already pensioners will continue to get their pension from Westminster. Its the scheme they paid into so they are entitled to continue being paid by it.

New pensioners after independence will need to be paid by Hollyrood.

People who retire to Thailand still get their UK pension dont they?

So your warning is neither required nor accurate.