Visa refused- appeal or start again

[liobrande]

Hi.

 

Me and my thai wife apply for EEA visa recently. This week we got negative response. The reason was only one- we do not provided our marriage certificate but WE DID IT. We upload all requirement documents including our both marriage certificates. Now my question is- it is worth to appeal from that decision or we should start application again and if we start it again is necessary to visit VFS by my wife again for taking photo etc?

[FritsSikkink]

Did you send the Thai version or was it translated and verified?

[liobrande]

Thai version and translated with stamp. 

[Bender Rodriguez]

ah, for EU I guess, as there is ZERO appeal for thai IO

 

wish there was

[theoldgit]

When you say EEA Visa what was she actually applying for, and to who.

[7by7]

10 hours ago, liobrande said:

Me and my thai wife apply for EEA visa recently

 

Visa for what purpose, e.g visit?

 

Which country did you apply to?

 

What is your nationality?

 

(theoldgit beat me to it; just!)

Edited August 14, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[liobrande]

Purpose- Family permit UK

 

Im Polish national, 5 years in UK

 

I found it is and it not call a appeal it's a Administrative Review. The question is it is worth to do it. 

[7by7]

I do not know how long an administrative revue would take, nor what would happen if a decision had not been made before the end of the Brexit transition period on 31/12/20.

 

So, as an EEA family permit is free, after checking to ensure you have included all the required documents, I suggest you simply apply again. Since Brexit there are two types of UK EEA family permit, see Apply for a permit to join your EU or EEA family member in the UK. Make sure she applies for the right one!

 

Have you, yourself applied for settled status in the UK yet? This will effect which permit she applies for.

[sead]

35 minutes ago, liobrande said:

Purpose- Family permit UK

 

Im Polish national, 5 years in UK

 

I found it is and it not call a appeal it's a Administrative Review. The question is it is worth to do it. 

Well. Since Brexit is on its way and your Polish staying in UK then I see a problem. 

[howerde]

2 minutes ago, sead said:

Well. Since Brexit is on its way and your Polish staying in UK then I see a problem. 

What problem do you see?

[sead]

4 minutes ago, howerde said:

What problem do you see?

UK is opting out of Schengen as i understand it. So my guess is that you didn't apply for the right one

[liobrande]

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I do not know how long an administrative revue would take, nor what would happen if a decision had not been made before the end of the Brexit transition period on 31/12/20.

It's says 28 calender days, so I suppose we will get decision before end of year

 

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Have you, yourself applied for settled status in the UK yet? This will effect which permit she applies for.

 Yes I applied for settled status. 

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

So, as an EEA family permit is free, after checking to ensure you have included all the required documents, I suggest you simply apply again. Since Brexit there are two types of UK EEA family permit, see Apply for a permit to join your EU or EEA family member in the UK. Make sure she applies for the right one!

Thanks for concern, we applied for correct type. 

 

One think what bother me is why they didn't notice my marriage certificate. It's the most important document and Im 100% sure I enclose it to our application. I think it was just a mistake from their side. 

 

1 minute ago, sead said:

UK is opting out of Schengen as i understand it. So my guess is that you didn't apply for the right one

That's why we trying now, not after Brexit.

 

[7by7]

33 minutes ago, sead said:

UK is opting out of Schengen as i understand it. So my guess is that you didn't apply for the right one

 The UK was never in Schengen.

[KhaoYai]

As they made a mistake in their decision, an appeal/review should produce a positive result - providing that there were no other reasons for refusal.

[Johnthplumb]

37 minutes ago, sead said:

UK is opting out of Schengen as i understand it. So my guess is that you didn't apply for the right one

Sorry you are wrong the UK is not opting out of the Schengen agreement, the United Kingdom has never been part of the Schengen, we rejected it and never joined. 

[Kalasin Jo]

4 hours ago, sead said:

UK is opting out of Schengen as i understand it. So my guess is that you didn't apply for the right one

UK never opted IN to Schengen. I think the OPs girlfriend needs a UK visa issued by the UK and only good for entry and stay in the UK. I don't know about UK visas but believe they are for 6 months if issued to you. I do know about Schengen short stay ( 90 days max per stay) visas, tourist and marriage, issued by France. Good for all Schengen zone countries, but not for the UK because it is not a Schengen signatory and not in the Schengen zone. These days all European countries including the UK want to be certain that  a tourist visit is not a pretext to stay on.They particularly keen to see that the applicant had strong ties to their country of nationality ( family, job ) to ensure a return there at the end of the visa validity. Also adequate means to support the trip or a sponsor if not and a booked return ticket ( a laugh at the moment so far as Thailand is concerned in view of the Thai Covid entry requirements even for their own nationals). My Thai wife's sister applied for a Schengen visa for a trip to Holland, sponsored by her cousin who has  lived there for years. She was refused because she had no husband or young family nor a job in Thailand and they weren't satisfied she would return to Thailand.

 

[Tony M]

Why don't you do both ?   I don't see anything to stop you appealing and submitting a new application and an Admin Review at the same time. If the new Family Permit application is issued first, then you will be asked to withdraw the AR before the FP can be issued. 

 

If you want to be sure that the marriage certificate was issued, and missed by the decision-maker, then you can submit a Subject Access Request to the Home Office, requesting sight of all documents submitted. It's free, but can take up to a couple of months to get a reply and a copy of all the documents that you submitted. In fact, you could do all three things together, and it's all free !  Unbelievable value in this day and age.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Tony M

[lopburi3]

On 8/14/2020 at 6:41 AM, liobrande said:

Thai version and translated with stamp. 

The copy of a Thai marriage certificate should be both translated and recorded by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs to be legal outside of Thailand.  This is a routine process for translation services to provide so perhaps I am wrong and the stamp you mention is the MFA registration number?  If not suspect you will have to have that done first.  Although official recording by MFA is not always required for overseas use of translations it can be a requirement. 

[Gilltom]

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 The UK was never in Schengen.

That's what i thought

[7by7]

8 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

<snip>

The copy of a Thai marriage certificate should be both translated and recorded by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs to be legal outside of Thailand.

I can't speak for other countries, but this is not the case for the UK. In the UK it is the original Thai marriage certificate which is the legal document and the translation is simply that; a translation so British officials can read it.

 

The translation of our marriage certificate is certified as true and correct by the bureau which translated it, and that's all. We did not have the translation certified by the Thai MFA.

 

It has been accepted whenever presented to UK officials; including my wife's settlement visa application through ILR to naturalisation. 

[lopburi3]

26 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I can't speak for other countries, but this is not the case for the UK. In the UK it is the original Thai marriage certificate which is the legal document and the translation is simply that; a translation so British officials can read it.

 

The translation of our marriage certificate is certified as true and correct by the bureau which translated it, and that's all. We did not have the translation certified by the Thai MFA.

 

It has been accepted whenever presented to UK officials; including my wife's settlement visa application through ILR to naturalisation. 

The legal authority for Thai Documents is certification by MFA - without that it may or may not be accepted by legal authorities in other countries and believe that also applies to UK.  That one agency accepts does not mean another will or the next person in that agency will - much better to be prepared and have certification to international standards.  This is not just Thailand - most countries have such official means to confirm paperwork is authentic - many people from USA now have to get State certification and then Department of State on top of that to satisfy Thailand when previously it was not an issue.

 

Edit:  understand your post and believe that has generally been true for those from UK - but as mention was made officially that marriage certificate was not presented offered above as a possible reason and still believe it might be.  It does not cost that much to have this process done so I would do before submitting again.

Edited August 15, 2020 by lopburi3

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

<snip>

The legal authority for Thai Documents is certification by MFA - without that it may or may not be accepted by legal authorities in other countries and believe that also applies to UK. 

As I said, in the UK the legal document is the original Thai certificate, not the translation, and it is the UK we are talking about here.

 

12 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

<snip>

That one agency accepts does not mean another will or the next person in that agency will -

The translation, together with the original, has been accepted by different agencies of the Home Office on three separate occasions.

 

They have also been acceptable to HMRC and the DWP, as well as our bank and local authority. In fact in every instance where we have had to prove our marriage in the UK.

 

17 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

<snip>

This is not just Thailand - most countries have such official means to confirm paperwork is authentic - many people from USA now have to get State certification and then Department of State on top of that to satisfy Thailand when previously it was not an issue.

What is required by the Thai government, the US government or any other government is irrelevant here. This topic is about a UK EEA family permit application. The UK's requirements are all that matter.