Usufruct needed?

[cnxgary]

Just yesterday I was issued the yellow book and was given a queue # and date to return to the Amphur for the pink I.D. card. Should one go the extra distance and draw up a Usufruct? What happens if the wife dies does one have the ability to reside in the house as long as one chooses without having Usufruct?

[Matzzon]

47 minutes ago, cnxgary said:

What happens if the wife dies does one have the ability to reside in the house as long as one chooses without having Usufruct?

A usufruct is always a good option. Normally there should not be a problem staying after wife dies, but it also many times depend on the rest of the family. Having a usufruct takes away that potential obstacle.

[HullyGully]

With a Usufruct it gives you protecion

 

If your wife dies or not you can live in the house/land for the rest of your life

 

It also makes it difficult for your wife or any relatives ( if she died) to sell the house as you have the right to live in the house

 

You should go to the Land Office with your wife and talk to them, the Usufruct information is entered onto the Chanote

 

A couple of bits of info for you

 

Your wife could make a will leaving you the house / land - You would then have one year to sell the house / land

 

FYI - You can own the house, BUT not the land

[realviking48]

7 minutes ago, HullyGully said:

With a Usufruct it gives you protecion

 

If your wife dies or not you can live in the house/land for the rest of your life

 

It also makes it difficult for your wife or any relatives ( if she died) to sell the house as you have the right to live in the house

 

You should go to the Land Office with your wife and talk to them, the Usufruct information is entered onto the Chanote

 

A couple of bits of info for you

 

Your wife could make a will leaving you the house / land - You would then have one year to sell the house / land

 

FYI - You can own the house, BUT not the land

You would then have one year to sell the house / land????.. If her family wants, she can stop anybody wanting to buy the house.. at any price... the the house will go to the family for 0 baht.. Also her family can pressing  you out of the house any time she wants.. dead or alive..

[deej]

33 minutes ago, realviking48 said:

You would then have one year to sell the house / land????.. If her family wants, she can stop anybody wanting to buy the house.. at any price... the the house will go to the family for 0 baht.. Also her family can pressing  you out of the house any time she wants.. dead or alive..

Sorry to say,

What a load of rubbish.

Post number 2 and 3 are on the money ,Big Time

Edited August 21, 2020 by deej

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, realviking48 said:

You would then have one year to sell the house / land????.. If her family wants, she can stop anybody wanting to buy the house.. at any price... the the house will go to the family for 0 baht.. Also her family can pressing  you out of the house any time she wants.. dead or alive..

If I were you, I would check the information before publishing in the future. You are very wrong!

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, HullyGully said:

FYI - You can own the house, BUT not the land

In most cases this can be possible. However, it all has to do with if the Land Department see the land and the house as possible to separate into two entities.

[connda]

It's a matter of how secure you wish to feel.  Me?  I've got a detailed Will drawn up by a lawyer as well as a Usufruct contract.  With both those documents in hand I feel pretty confident should my wife die before me and I need to wade into the Thai legal system and navigate probate. 

The will grants me ownership of all physical things on the land.
The Usufruct grants me the right to live on the land the rest of my life.

These documents function together.

Edited August 21, 2020 by connda

[HullyGully]

In the will if you are the sole beneficiary, Probate would be granted that you inherit the house / land

 

However, under Thai law you cannot own the land, the court states you must sell within one year 

[LukKrueng]

AFAIK if you buy/ own a plot of land and then build a house, you don't get a separate deed (chanot) for the house, and chanot is the only legal document stating ownership of realestate. I know that in some cases of developers building a village project they issue separate deeds for house and land, but still, how can you sell one without the other? 

[JusticeGB]

The Usurfract is registered on the Title Deed so without proof of your death or your physical presence and permission given at the land office the land cannot be transferred to a third party. Your right to live in the house remains until you die. You don't have to sell the house or land if your wife dies as you have the right to live in the house until you die.

[GreasyFingers]

If the wife wants to leave the property in her will, have it drawn up at the Amphur. They will do it for a small fee and also keep a copy.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 8/21/2020 at 9:22 AM, cnxgary said:

Should one go the extra distance and draw up a Usufruct? What happens if the wife dies does one have the ability to reside in the house as long as one chooses without having Usufruct?

Having an Usufruct gives a degree of security. Though  the neighbours/family could get you out if you are not on good terms with them, by harassment not by law.
 

The problem can come if your local land office will not allow an usufruct, you have only 2 options then 1) get a lawyer involved, it may or may not work. 2) wait for the land office head to change and hope that the new one will permit it.

[rumak]

18 hours ago, connda said:

as well as a Usufruct contract

i believe the best way to have a usufruct is for it to be done at the Land Office.   If your wife is the owner as shown on the Chanote..... then she can ask the land office to put the usufruct on.

It is typed on the Chanote (  called sitti gep gin  )  and should state the time it is in effect ( for your lifetime).    That is how mine are done.   

Best protection there is, no matter what one or two here say .   

   and yes,  the other thing is the will   ????

Edited August 22, 2020 by rumak

[Stevemercer]

1 hour ago, JusticeGB said:

The Usurfract is registered on the Title Deed so without proof of your death or your physical presence and permission given at the land office the land cannot be transferred to a third party. Your right to live in the house remains until you die. You don't have to sell the house or land if your wife dies as you have the right to live in the house until you die.

 

I am just curious. So who owns the land and house if your wife has died and you have have not sold the land/house after 12 months?

[Stevemercer]

Our local land office does not permit an usufruct to be entered on title. A fellow I know got a common law contract drawn up by a solicitor to try and achieve something similar. The contract is between him and his wife (as the owner of the land/house), but I suspect is only valid while she is still alive. The in-laws would certainly toss him out of they could.

[Chris.B]

How do I go about getting a Usufruct? Is it just going to the Land amphur's office with the wife and her chanote? Plus blue book, yellow book, ID and passport? Anything else?

[sometimewoodworker]

11 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

How do I go about getting a Usufruct? Is it just going to the Land amphur's office with the wife and her chanote? Plus blue book, yellow book, ID and passport? Anything else?

The land office has a preprinted form that you can use.
 

However an Usufruct is a contract that can have a verity of conditions, it can be in English and Thai (the form is only in Thai). So you can use a lawyer to draw one up for you. You should ensure that you keep a copy of it, the land office will keep 1.
 

The yellow book and pink card are not required.

[elliss]

23 hours ago, HullyGully said:

In the will if you are the sole beneficiary, Probate would be granted that you inherit the house / land

 

However, under Thai law you cannot own the land, the court states you must sell within one year 

 

     If you cannot own the Land .

       How can you sell , the land ,??

 

[Henryford]

22 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

The Usurfract is registered on the Title Deed so without proof of your death or your physical presence and permission given at the land office the land cannot be transferred to a third party. Your right to live in the house remains until you die. You don't have to sell the house or land if your wife dies as you have the right to live in the house until you die.

You may have the legal right to stay but i guess if the Thai family wanted you out they could make your life so bad you would want to go.

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, Henryford said:

You may have the legal right to stay but i guess if the Thai family wanted you out they could make your life so bad you would want to go.

 

 

 

Indeed. I have seen this happen.

 

The Farang husband was told by police he was legally in the right to stay - but they could not guarantee his safety if the family decided to take matters in their own hands.

 

He stayed................... until the first time he took a new lady back to the house and she was run out of the village by the family.

 

 

 

[rumak]

Just now, Henryford said:

You may have the legal right to stay but i guess if the Thai family wanted you out they could make your life so bad you would want to go.

yes,  always that possibility for most of us that do not have a strong support group behind us.

 

the warnings by some members of the possible perils of investing "more than one can afford to lose"

I think are based on experience.   First hand or "a friend" .    of course the rebuttal ( great wife, great family, i have a contract, the law says, etc etc)  .....those folks do not feel there is much risk involved

for them.     To each his own.

 

I like to give the "be prudent"  advice .   I have avoided any major setback here,  but in a few cases

dealing with  officialdom I have noticed what i perceive to be a resistance to take my side or give me

special treatment.   I am sure it is the same in my home country as well.

Therefore i try to adapt accordingly so as to best protect myself and get what i want .. 

[Crossy]

A bunch of posts removed.

 

The bickering will stop forthwith or holidays will be handed out.

[rumak]

21 hours ago, Stevemercer said:

Our local land office does not permit an usufruct to be entered on title. A fellow I know got a common law contract drawn up by a solicitor to try and achieve something similar. The contract is between him and his wife (as the owner of the land/house), but I suspect is only valid while she is still alive. The in-laws would certainly toss him out of they could.

my fear is that the Land Office does not have to acknowledge whatever contracts or agreements you

have.  They can just say  NO.     

[rickthailand]

On 8/22/2020 at 10:39 AM, JusticeGB said:

The Usurfract is registered on the Title Deed so without proof of your death or your physical presence and permission given at the land office the land cannot be transferred to a third party. Your right to live in the house remains until you die. You don't have to sell the house or land if your wife dies as you have the right to live in the house until you die.

NOT TRUE, the land can be sold even if you have a usurfruct but your rights stay the same they can not remove you(the new owners) i had the land transferred to a third party no problem.

 

rick